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Discussion on Older horse: weight evaluation
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Monday, Apr 13, 2009 - 11:37 pm:
My horse is eighteen. I got him last fall; he was too thin, and I've been feeding him for gradual wight gain. Now he's smoothed out on the sides of his hips, he doesn't have hollows in his upper flanks any more. his ribs, which never showed, are buried in fat. Here is the conundrum. His backbone still forms a ridge back to his loins. From the loins back, he isn't so pointed, but not round either. He doesn't have any fat deposits around his tail-head, but he's not hollow there either.
If you took a picture of this horse, and drew a line horizontally from 4" below his withers back through his hindquarters, he's still too thin. On the other hand, if the horizontal line went from slightly above the point of his shoulder back to his hindquarters, he's on the fleshy side.
I tend to think that this is an issue of his age, and the way he was ridden before I got him, but I might just be rationalizing feeding less to lower the feed bill. Therefore, I am hoping to get a reality check from other members. I do not want his old feet and legs to carry around more weight than they must, but on the other hand, I do want him to be as well nourished as possible.
I've never had a personal horse this old, and it's funny how something that I never thought to hard about before has become a big deal with this old guy. I'm going to try to get a picture of him later this week in order to illustrate what I'm describing. I do not think that he has Cushing's by the way. He's very peppy, his coat has a nice sheen, and although he's not completely shedded out, he's well under way.
Thank's in advance for any opinions on this.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 14, 2009 - 5:40 am:
Hello Susie,
You don't read a horses condition from the ventral part of the body. You do it from the ribs up, and it sounds like you horse is still a four on the Henneke scale as described in the article. I don't think age at 18 or past riding are a cause but sometimes horses recover weight and condition at different rates in different places.
DrO
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 14, 2009 - 7:29 am:
Suzie, I don't think a well cared for horse at age 18 is "old" - I've seen many 18+ horses that are in great shape and look half their age.
Is this a matter of "fitness"? Is your horse perhaps lacking in muscling and/or a top line and that is contributing to his appearance?
...Just a thought.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 14, 2009 - 9:06 am:
Thank you, Dr. O and Fran. I'll keep up the feeding, and I think that he does have some muscle fitness loss on his top line. I am glad that he's so active going up and down the hillside where he lives.
When I got this horse, he had a tight, tense way of going: head high, neck braced. This getting better, he finally started to walk under saddle last month. Word is that his previous rider had a couple of men hold him while she mounted, and then blasted off at a largo, hanging on his mouth for balance. Arrgh! He was a mental mess. Anyway, I do think that some of his problem could be conditioning.
On the other hand, It sounds as if it''s best to continue re-feeding. I've always fattened horses with lots of alfalfa, but the other equines he lives with can't eat that without getting too fat. He is dominant, and can keep his beet pulp, cubes, and rice bran to himself. Are these suitable for summer feeding? I couldn't find anything against it in the nutrition articles, but want to avoid making assumptions.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 14, 2009 - 10:48 am:
Hi Susie
Ive read that Calf Manna is a nice, low cost way to fatten them up. Also adding some veg. oil.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 2:01 am:
I took a couple of pictures of my horse today. One from the side, and one from slightly above. The sunset picture is from last October. I have been trying to put weight on him, but not too fast. I think he looks healthy now, but if he scores a 4, then I need to keep the refeeding up a while longer, correct? Could I please have some feedback? 
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 2:03 am:
The sunset picture from his first days home last fall.
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 2:05 am:
Last year's pic won't post. Sorry
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 8:35 am:
Hi Susie, From the pics he looks pretty good, but maybe could use a few more pounds. We had a horse at the boarding barn that was like this, he was a lesson horse and in good shape, from the middle of the ribs down he looked fat. From that point up he looked slightly ribby and had a prominent backbone.
We fed that horse well, if he gained weight his belly just got bigger...the upper part never did "fill in" I wonder if there just are some horses that are "built" like that....this guy was a TB/QH cross. What breed is your horse?
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 8:56 am:
Susie,
The shadows make it tough to really see his back, and whites/grays are tough to see well in pics, anyway . . .
but looking at his hips and sides, he looks good to me. Not too fat, not too thin. As Diane says, older horses often tend to DrOp in their backs a bit. Unless they've been in constant work and conditioning, they lose muscle tone and get a bit saggy-looking (:0 !! Just like people!)
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 10:44 am:
I think he looks good.It's hard to tell in the pictures if you can see his ribs or not; if you can he could use a little more weight, as Diane said. If not, he looks "right" to me.
Cute Horse! I like him. He reminds me of a wonderful guy I had years ago. Nice sweet look.
I agree, he doesn't look like a Cushings horse at all. And, btw, I don't think 18 is old for a horse. Heck, at the World Cup in Las Vegas there were horses performing that were 17.
I think that working him will put muscle on his top line, which is what he is lacking. If you start working with him more you might have to up his feed to keep him like he is, maybe add a little senior feed if he's not getting it already. Going over trot poles, up and down hills, backing...all these will help him put muscle on his top and rear.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 10:58 am:
I think he looks good too, nice looking guy.
My 20 year old Arab, who gets a tad fat over the winter, slims down every summer. She tends to keep a "belly" but her ribs are more visible than I like if she is strictly on pasture and getting rode often. Just gravity at work like with us!
She's got plenty of "go" left in her, some creakiness in her joints like her middle aged owner, but keeping her on joint supplement helps with that.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 11:29 am:
Hi Susie
Hes a super cutie! I agree w/ topline work. If you can get some muscling up there I think he will look perfect weight.
Otherwise, if more exercise isnt possible his ol backbone may stay prominent.
good job getting him to where he is now
L
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 1:48 pm:
Thanks all of you for sending me your thoughts, and thank you for thinking he's cute too! To answer questions, he is a Paso Fino, and his ribs do not show at all. I got him from his rescuer, and he was a nervous wreck "horse-onified."
It took a lot of searching for us to find his "lost walk," and to saddle up without a 45 minute drama and I've become fond of him in the process. He is the kindest, most earnest horse I could ask for. I've wondered if the defensiveness he had under saddle affected his top line, and reading what you all say, it sounds like this could be the case.
I'll start asking him to back a little each day. He can walk uphill now, (he used to charge up like a freight train!), so I'll keep encouraging him to stretch his neck and walk strongly going uphill.
Going down is an ongoing project. He can focus when the footing is tricky. Otherwise he wants to rush. Does this maybe confirm that walking downhill is exactly what he needs? I've been stopping him frequently going downhill, and backing a few steps before moving on. However, it's a fine line between helping him to settle down vs. working him up. I suppose I could dismount and lead him when the footing is too easy to demand his attention.
Anyway, I so appreciate the kind words and encouragement. I'll tell old Hairball that you think he's cute too.
Thanks so much,
Susie
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 2:52 pm:
Good comments by all of the others.
My 18 year old Arab who has some similar issues became a hard-keeper over the past year.
He had DrOpped 50 pounds by last summer and 50 more by fall. I managed to put all of the weight back on him and have maintained him with Triple Crown Senior feed.
I find it hard to observe his actual weight from day to day with my eye only and it is helpful to do frequent weight measures with the tape to keep everything on track.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 6:10 pm:
I think the pictures are closer to 5 and I agree a little more fat on the back would look good.
DrO
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 26, 2009 - 7:04 pm:
Thanks again, I'll keep tracking his progress with photos, and post improvements periodically to share the success with you, my advisors.
Susie
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 3, 2009 - 4:20 pm:
I'm posting HB's progress again. At the start, he hips were very pointed. His back was ridged from withers to tail, and his coat was a little rough. Now, he has plenty of fat behind his shoulder and around his tail head. His back has improved (lots of marching up hills). He has more flesh covering his loin area. He's got some flesh on his withers. His back, between his withers and loin are not hollow, but are not filled out either. Kind of a "rafter" look. I'm posting a picture from October last year, and one from last week.
He seems happy and energetic, and he engages in spontaneous paddock romps with his companions on most days. Any opinions about his body condition today? How are we doing?  I feel compelled to say that the camera made his head look BIG. It isn't; he has a nice sized head, and he's a good fella. This was a different camera from the one used in photos from April.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 3, 2009 - 6:25 pm:
Susie, HB looks great Perfect weight and a very handsome horse. Good job!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 11:31 am:
Hello Susie,
Though the photos look good they can be deceiving. I want you to read the descriptions and grading using the Henneke scale in the article and you tell us what you judge your horse to be.
DrO
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Member:
sodmonst
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 12:18 pm:
In a small, .75 square foot area behind his withers, he scores 4-5. The rest of his body is closer to a 6.5. Intuitively, I'd say that this makes him around 5.5. My question is, does he have to meet all the criteria to make the grade, or can I go with intuition?
Before joining HA, I would have said he's a little fat, but I am learning here that its better to ask than assume that I know.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 4, 2009 - 3:19 pm:
Great Job Susie! He is such a cutie!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Oct 5, 2009 - 8:34 am:
Yes different areas can evaluate differently but a small 0.75 Sp foot area does not counter the balance the whole rest of the body. If it is distinctly spongy over the ribs easily he is a solid 6 to 7 almost no matter what is happening over the back of the withers.
Suzie you are in a far better position to evaluate the horse than we are so learning to do this using both your eyes and your hands is the take home message of the board. If we incorrectly evaluate the horse from the photo and you take it as gospel then we have mistaught you. If you are uncertain how to evaluate the horse, instead of writing down your judgement write down a description of what you see and feel. We can help you learn to evaluate that.
DrO
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