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Discussion on Pasterns a problem?
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 6:04 pm:
I've noticed the gelding we're trying has long pasterns and they seem steeper than our other horses', too. This is a well broke gelding, so he has seen serious use. He is not lame in any way, and shows no soreness in both feet. He lopes fine when asked, but doesn't he knock himself out to gallop when the rest of our herd gets frisky. He's pretty laidback, so it's possible it's just his disposition to eat rather than romp. The reason I am checking this out is that he has not been trimmed for a few months, and his back hooves are long as expected but his fronts are quite a bit shorter in the toe. I would have expected more even wear. I checked out Dr. O's article on founder in that's the culprit, but it really doesn't fit the bill. So, to sum up, my concerns are his shorter toes on front compared to the back, and his disinterest in running for fun. I've attached a photo for your viewing pleasure. Please know that we plan to use Hugo only for occasional trail riding, so if he has a minor conformation fault, we are okay with that. I have no background information on this horse, except that he was likely a ranch gelding from out West. Thanks for your input.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 6:45 pm:
Heidi, it's hard to tell on the grass, and it would be nice to see the hinds for comparison, but it looks like he's trimmed really upright, not following the line of his pastern at all. I also looks likes he's standing with his legs kind of back. Could you get a better picture showing him standing straight and on a hard surface? It would make it a lot for everyone and Dr.O to see what he looks like.
Also, why don't you get your vet to look at him if you think he might have some issues. Then you'd know for sure what you're getting into, if anything. Imo it's difficult enough to figure out a horse in "real life" let alone through just pictures.
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 7:07 pm:
Hi Sara. I do look to have my vet visit, as Hugo seems a match for us training-wise. However, if he has something noticeably wrong with him that is easy to see in the photos, I would rather save the vet the trouble and myself the fee. This horse came with no history at all, so I have no way to ask about previous lameness, etc. He also has growths on his ear (a different post today), and once again I'd like to see if they are something worth having a vet out for or if they are a sure sign of trouble. Please know I agree photos are no match for a real vet visit.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 7:34 pm:
Just looking at the pasterns in this photo, to me they don't look either long or upright. Nice short canon bones and low set flat knees too--good things.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 7:39 pm:
The only thing that jumps out at me is his fetlocks looks puffy is that the picture?
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 8:43 pm:
I'd love to hear that he has a good leg. Attached find a photo front and back. To me, the fronts look quite a bit steeper than the backs. I can try and get a shot on the flat tomorrow.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 8:52 pm:
I agree Heidi. But, I am used to looking at Arabian legs which usually have a longer pastern with more angle than what I see in a lot of the breeds, like QH and Appy's for instance. It would help to be able to see from the fetlock to the toe on a smooth surface though. Nothing "bad" jumps out in the photos that I can see, but again, it's so difficult to evaluate when there are shadows and only from one angle. Biggest thing would be, how does he move?
btw, at least in the Arab world, a long pastern means a smoother ride.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 10:08 pm:
In quarter horses, a long pastern isn't considered a good thing, but neither are short pasterns. The angle should be close to the same angle as the slope of the shoulder. This guy does not have long pasterns IMO. I still say he looks totally acceptable judging from the pictures especially given your goals for him. And I've had some very well bred youngsters that were just not livewires in the pasture. The first time I had one of those I told my vet I was worried. He said, "he's too smart to waste energy that way." Turns out he's been right--every one of my lazy in the pasture types has excelled at their career--from trail riding, working cow horse, cutting to reining. That's a pretty typical quarter horse mind.
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Member:
heidim
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 17, 2009 - 10:36 pm:
This is all so reassuring. He's such a good boy. I'll still try to get that photo on a smooth surface.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 18, 2009 - 8:21 am:
If he is in need of a trim, that could change what we are seeing. Are his heels long in the front hoofs, toe worn back? I'd have a good barefoot trimmer trim him, watch for lameness, and go from there. I am sure he will be fine, just another way to go about easing your mind.
Sara,
I am not sure I agree with the longer pastern/smoother ride. If you remember the chestnut mare Fancy I shared with you, and put her picture on here I think too, she had long pasterns. Other than a ground covering walk that was almost too fast, she had a rough trot,and her canter was just average.
On the other hand, Willow, who's picture is on the swelling under ears & throat discussion, has more upright pasterns, and shorter ones, and she has a pokey walk, but a nicer trot & canter.
I also owned a Saddlebred who had average pasterns, but short cannon bones, and he was the smoothest horse at all gaits.
Not picking on you Sara, just it sure seems that it's the whole package that needs to be considered!
From seeing this horse on the other discussion, he looks like a good ol' boy to me, and I like him.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 18, 2009 - 11:02 am:
Of course it's the whole package, but if you have a horse with short pasterns it won't be able to have as much "spring" as a horse with longer pasterns. The other big consideration would be the shoulder; an upright shoulder and the horse will have a chopper gait because it won't be able to reach as far forward. Ideal is a horse with a laid back shoulder and fairly long pasterns, imo.
I'll go to the other discussion and look at him. I'm certainly not "putting down" this horse, just making a general comment on conformation.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 18, 2009 - 1:14 pm:
Sam has short pasterns and I have never ridden such a rough horse in my life (at the trot). Hank has longer pasterns and is very smooth. The horse above appears to have "normal pasterns" to me, hard to tell from pics for sure. If he is sound and you like him I wouldn't reconsider if the only problem is long pasterns.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 18, 2009 - 6:12 pm:
Hello Heidi,
The problem with evaluating photos for pastern conformation is that it depends a lot on the conditions. The pasterns relation to hoof and the rest of the leg is always changing. It depends on leg placement, the slightly camped under in the first straightens the pasterns. It depends on flexor pull, which can elevate the fetlock and pastern. It depends on heel elevation, as they elevate the pastern DrOps. For these reasons this aspect of conformation needs to be evaluated by watching the horse as he stands square and dynamically while walking.
If given a good conformation shot from the side on level hard ground so the whole foot and lower part of the leg are clearly seen without significant foreshortening I will be glad to comment but the photos above could be very misleading.
DrO
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