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  Discussion on Swelling of 3 yr olds knee??
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Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 12:41 pm:

Hello all..

I have an almost 3 year old Anglo arab, that his right knee, has a sort of 'disconnected' swelling??

It is kind of hard to describe, but, as you are looking at him from the front. There is some swelling above the knee, but only on the right (outside)...almost like a 'sliver' of swelling..soft and squishy, no heat/pain...

and---there is swelling in the knee..also soft and painless. I say that the swelling is 'disconnected' because the 2 swollen areas are not physically connected, but seem to be related. ??

I have treated it with bute/ice and cold hosinngs with no improvements? He has no physical limitations because if this, but it is very apparent when you look at his legs??

I will try and take a picture or draw something and scan it in to give you a better idea of whats going on

Thanks for any ideas?

cindy
Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 7:40 pm:

hello all...

i had trouble getting a picture to attatch in the post, so I modified my profile to include a diagram of where the swelling is located...

It's a little diffucult because the picture of the knee that i used is a left knee, but my horse has swelling in the right knee...more specifically on the outside of the knee..so the picture is kinda hard to flip and twist in ones head...I apologize for that...

But i guess, more importantly it shows how the swelling is 'disconnected'...kinda confusing..??

thanks-cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 22, 2005 - 11:11 pm:

I am afraid the locations themselves is not that helpful, particularly for the distal one. There are several structures that underly that area each which might cause swelling. One of the possiblilities for the distal swelling in the joint capsule, so this needs to be looked at by your vet.
DrO
Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 23, 2005 - 9:37 am:

Thanks Dr. O,

Would swelling of the joint capsule cause pain?? He has never shown signs of pain or being off.

I have planed on having it looked at by my vet, he is due out in 2 weeks. Do you think that I should have him out earlier, or is it ok to wait?

Thanks-Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 23, 2005 - 11:44 pm:

Not always, inflammation of the synovial sheath of the joint can cause sweling without pain but still should be treated and rested.
DrO
Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Friday, Mar 25, 2005 - 11:42 am:

What would be the 'text book' treatment of a condition like this...??

Does it simply boil down to stall rest or are there meds that can be given (via a vet) that can hasten recovery.??

Until my vet comes out is there anything that I should be doing to treat this.??

I havent been riding him, but about once a week, just light hacks...and he is turned out 24/7 with his pasture buddy.

He loves to rough house and carry around sticks that he plucks off of trees..I think that stall rest would drive him to insanity. (never been stall kept)..

I would like to have a 'heads up' when the vet comes, to have something to compare treatments against...as I know that it is impossible to 'diagnose' anything over the web?

thanks for your help!
Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Mar 25, 2005 - 5:43 pm:

Unfortunatley text book treatments would require a diagnosis Cindy and to go into all the possible treatments for all the possible diseases would require dozens of pages. But let me help you with the way to look at this as you currently have the horse before the cart.

The important thing is first a clearly understand all the problems present:
1) Is there truly no lameness under stressful (for the knee area) conditions?.
2) What exactly is swollen?
3) Once localized to a specific structure a list of possible causes is made and ways to rule them in and out created.
4) Once all the possible causes are listed a decision can be made as to the next step:
a) further work up
b) treatment
c) wait and see
Only by following such a course can you be sure that minor problems are not overdiagnosed or serious problems missed. If the swelling is not serious and the horse not lame pasture rest and bandaging when up in the stall are logical unless the swelling continues to worsen.
DrO
Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 5, 2005 - 9:48 pm:

hello

My vet was able to make it out yesterday and look at his knee...he thought that it (swelling/damage?) had not entered the joint, but was affecting the distal tendon/Collateral ligament (??) that runs on the outside of the leg? That it got stretched somehow and fluid has built up aroun that...He also said that he hasnt seen anything like that before and that it troubled him.

no x-rays were pulled/or ultrasound, as they would give a better explination. however the vet felt certian that this would affect his ability to work.

he seemed to think that this was equally trouble some as someting affecting the joint...He passed a flex test on that knee...but the vet seems to think that this will not resolve itself and will remain trouble some with increased work load.

have you had any experinces with this type of thing, as my vet hasnt had any experines with this?? thanks!
Member:
Chohler

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 4:02 pm:

You need diagnostic work done Xrays etc.... Without proof it is only opinion.

Do you have another vet?
Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 6, 2005 - 4:57 pm:

yeah I understand that it was only 'diagnosed' through palpation and as my vet said, it would take x rays/ultra sounds to pin down the real issue.

Unfortunatly, I dont have the money for such things to find out either way. This horse is only 3, and his knee will get hot and swollen after extended periods of work (for him, about 30 min of work) I lunged him over a down log (~8 inches tall) twice, and the next day his knee was hot and swollen.

Thanks for your response!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 7, 2005 - 9:33 am:

Cindy we really do not know what is wrong from your description so cannot compare it to other cases we have seen or recommend specific therapy. Ask the veterinarian what is his diagnosis, write it down and post it here. If he says that the horses has extensor tendonitis that has a good prognosis, if he says the horse has collateral ligament desmitis, the prognosis will depend on the severity of the damage to the ligament.

I can tell you from the above post you need to rest and bute this horse, perhaps for a long time, until he does not react adversely to exercise.
DrO
Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Thursday, Apr 7, 2005 - 10:11 pm:

Hi Dr O,
thank you for your (always) wonderful suggestions...when this 'injury' showed up, about 3 months ago. i treated it with bute,rest and linaments, ice and cold hosings. from day one there was no change in the swelling. when the swelling in his knee is 'good', ,the knee looks like it has 2 different sites(large and vert obvious) of swelling on the outside front of the right knee. almost makes the knee look deformed. When the knee gets more swollen after riding, bute will bring that swelling down, but the initial swelling still remains, unchanged.

the horse was never lame, and doesnt show signs of pain.

he doesnt react adversly to light riding, w/t/c for about 20-30 minutes. I lunged him over a down log (~8 in all) only made him go over it twice. they following night swelling had accumutated around the knee joint and the swelling had continued into his cannon bone area. (most likely due to gravity?)

through my own palpation and the help of your diagrams of the knee, from what I can tell, a tendon/ligament on the outside front of the right knee is very 'movable' when compared to the other side. It was quite thick, when compared to other knee. the tendon/ligament seems to come down from the front side of the fore leg, however the swelling/thickening/movability of the tendon/ligament was signifigantly different.

i dont know of this helps you any, as I am not a vet, but have been perceptive of the changes in the knee...i apologize for the laymans explaination, i will try to call my vet to see if he remembers his comments.

i know that furture explination of this would require further diagnosis with x\rays and ultrasounds. If this is indeed a serious issue, then I know that this is not a horse that i want to 'deal' with, especially as a 3 yr old.

my style of riding would not suit his knee condition, if this is a true issue then I would be happier knowing that he is pasture sound then being ridden and crippled or in pain for the rest of his life.

thank you very much,
Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Apr 8, 2005 - 10:02 am:

If there is no lameness, rest until the injury heals may turn him into a usable horse.
DrO
Member:
Cindyt

Posted on Friday, Apr 22, 2005 - 11:51 pm:

I have finally uploaded some pictures of the knee (external)..I had a hard time getting them to attatch in the message, so I have updated my profile to include one of the pictures...

Please tell me what you all think??

Respectfully
Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Apr 24, 2005 - 2:58 pm:

The upper circle overlies the extensor muscle belly, while the lower swelling overlies tendon insertions, intracarpal-ligaments, and the proximal 2 carpal joints. It is difficult to make any conclusions however from this information alone. Did the vet who examined the horse develop a diagnosis?
DrO
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