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  Discussion on Negative plantar angle
Author Message
New Member:
besis111

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 - 11:15 pm:

Hi, Dr. O. I'm hoping you can offer your thoughts and insights. My horse has, over the last year or so, shown some back end weakness, although I never have considered him lame. A vet I saw recently suggested that his feet were poorly balanced, with a long toe and lower heel than ideal. I obtained a new farrier who I found through a referral. The vet had recommended natural balance shoes, but based on information I had heard, I was hesitant to use them. Instead, my new farrier changed his angles to something that was more upright, and put roller shoes on his front. Today, my farrier said that my horse has a negative or zero plantar angle. He based this on the fact that his frog is more recessed toward the toe. He advised on shoeing normally this cycle and seeing how he feels over the next few weeks, and then to see what his feet look like at his next shoeing. What would be the cause of the shift of the coffin bone angle, should I have his feet x-rayed to see what's actually going on, and what should be done to correct the problem? I'm attaching images of him after his last shoeing about 5 weeks ago. Let me know what you think, as feet are very much an area I feel I have no knowledge. Also, do you think removing the hind shoes and letting him go barefoot in the back could ultimately be helpful? Thanks very much for your opinion and advice.
https://robglenn.com/amy/backleft.jpghttps://robglenn.com/amy/standing.jpghttps://robglenn.com/amy/standingrightside.jpg
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 15, 2009 - 6:49 am:

Hello amy,
I am not sure I understand what your farrier is saying amy. Some horses do normally have a 0 degree plantar angle. However if it is negative does the farrier believe the plantar angle of the coffin bone has changed and if so is it because:
1) The conformation of the hoof capsule is one of a low heel/high toe (negative with respect to the ground and common)
or
2) Because the coffin bone has shifted within the hoof capsule (negative with respect of the solar surface and rare maybe seen in severely foundered horses that sink)

Anytime there is doubt about the positioning of the coffin bone, usually because of unusual growth features of the horn, radiographs are helpful. If the problem is the second one above, I would radiograph.
DrO
New Member:
besis111

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 15, 2009 - 9:46 am:

Thanks for your response, Dr. O. I understand what my farrier is saying, but I don't understand what the implications are (if any), and what should be done if this is indeed a problem (which he called mechanical as opposed to a disease process such as laminitis). What he is saying is that the normal angle of the coffin bone is between 3 and 5 degrees. Based on looking at the sole of my horse's foot, he believes the coffin bone is sitting either at zero or slightly negative relative to the sole.

I probably wouldn't have been concerned about this observation if it weren't for the fact that my horse has been having some hind end weakness/lameness.

The pictures I attached were from his first shoeing with my new farrier. I should take a new picture for comparison. He seemed to feel like there were changes in both hind feet since 5 weeks prior to yesterday when he shod him for the first time.

Is the angle of the coffin bone something that changes over time, or, other than with the case of laminitis or founder, would this angle be something that he most likely always has had? Do you think that seeing the recess in his frog near the toe would be reason for him to suspect a negative angle?

I'm going to have a vet out to do a lameness exam and radiographs if he feels it's warranted, but just wanted to get your opinion.

Thanks, again.

Amy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jul 16, 2009 - 7:38 am:

Taking your questions first:
1) No the coffin bone does not change its angle with respect to the sole without disease.
2) Because I cannot see what he is seeing I cannot make such a judgement. However I find the suggestion of the horse developing a negative angle very unlikely. As I have said I have seen some horses with a zero degree with so signs of problems.

If he persists that there is something wrong, before I did anything remarkable I would radiograph the foot to document the position of the coffin bone.
DrO
New Member:
besis111

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 15, 2009 - 10:21 pm:

Thanks, Dr. O., that's helpful.

Amy
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