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Discussion on Pura Raza Espanola
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Member:
bucky
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 4:21 pm:
The Peruvian Paso article was very interesting and I was wondering if anyone knows if they are related to PRE's - Pura Raza Espanola? These are the horses you see in all the Clint Eastwood Spagetti Westerns. Anybody on this board have any?
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 5:56 pm:
Hello Mandy,
They are, Paso is the result of different breeding from the Horses that the Spaniards brought to America.
According to all the records Horses as we know them did not exist in this continent before the Spanish conquerors. They had all been hunted out for food!
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Member:
cspanhel
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 10:17 pm:
Hi, I have several PREs. A new history of the PRE indicates they were developed as a breed much later than the Spanish conquest of the Americas.
cynthia
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Member:
judyhens
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 12:53 am:
Hi! We have both Peruvians and P.R.E.s (Andalusian). The Peruvian descended from the Andalusian, the Spanish Barb, and several other breeds. The two breeds share some conformational characteristics: short coupled, round croups, low tail sets, long mane, forelocks, and tails (and Cynthia has a stallion with one of the longest manes and forelocks in the Andalusian breed!). Andalusians (or P.R.E.s if you are referring to the horse specifically from Spain) are taller and bigger than the Peruvian. Peruvians are gaited horses, while Andalusians trot. Both are spirited, with the Peruvian being a little hotter, in our experience. They are people loving, intelligent, and have a drive to please. We truly enjoy these Spanish breeds. The Peruvian is great for those of us who need smooth for aching backs.... :-) The Andalusian is awesome for just about everything. They seem so happy and proud to carry a rider. Errrr... except perhaps some of the mares would prefer to simply eat and have babies I think.... If you would like to see examples of both breeds, we would love to have you visit our website at https://www.ranchodellago.net/
Hope this helps.
Judy
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 10:34 am:
Hola,
PRE Pura Raza Española means Pure Spanish Breeed/Blood.
The Peruvian Paso had its origins over four centuries ago in South America, where the horses brought to Peru by the conquistadors and subsequent Spanish settlers were bred selectively to produce the genetic miracle that became the "National Horse of Peru." The judicious fusion of several Old World breeds provided the foundation for the Peruvian horse. The Spanish Jennet gave its even temperament and smooth ambling gait, the African Barb contributed great energy, strength and stamina while the Andalusian imparted its excellent conformation, action, proud carriage and beauty to the new breed. Once established, the Peruvian Paso was maintained in its native country as a closed population, isolated by geography and the dedication of its creators from the influence of additional outside blood.
We have Paso Fino and Peruvian Paso and we love them too. They are gentle but sparky! Full of surprises.
Liliana
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Member:
bucky
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 10:40 am:
Thanks for sharing!
Judy, I enjoyed looking at your web site. Very interesting. I love all the pictures. Nice to know that you find you can ride the Peruvian with an aching back as I am afraid that will be an issue for me someday.
Cynthia that picture in your profile is stunning. Looks like something out of a fairy tale.
Thanks for your info also Liliana. I find the history of these breeds facinating.
Have any of you used them around cattle?
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 11:08 am:
Horses like all animals had to earn their keep in those days (Just like now…After all the love and joy they give us is invaluable for our mental and physical health) so I don't see way you could not use them to round cattle.
Incidentally Peruvian Paso and Paso Fino are renowned for the comfort while riding as it is a two beat as instead of four bit of the conventional horse!
Girls are you sure you are seating properly…easier said than done eh...
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 12:38 pm:
WOW. Thank you for all the info. We had an Andalusian spend a couple of weeks here while in transit to the west coast. The first one I had contact with. She took my breathe away as soon as she offloaded! A regal, curious, social and affectionate horse. We will remember her for a long time here. Stunning!
Cynthia, your picture on profile is wonderful as well. It is very easy to understand your devotion to the breed!
Liliana, your profile picture is absolutely charming. What a pleasure.
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 1:45 pm:
He’d been on this world for about 20 minutes, his mum had lost three foals previously as her owner injected her anabolic in his attempt of her not coming in heat, her milk would dry up and the foals starve to death! We adopted mum when she was 7 months pregnant
Baby was touch and go! He took over an hour to stand up and once he did it was an effort to stay up! .The vet didn’t think he would make it, but thank goodness he is a healthy 5 yo now and sooooo gentle.
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 10:20 pm:
What an adorable little one he was Liliana...glad he made it!
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 8:30 am:
Judy, I'm curious about your P.R.E's. For a while now, I thought I'd like to have one as my next dressage horse, so I've been looking at the ads in Dreamhorse and Equine.com, although I'm not officially ready to buy any time soon, I find them a stunning breed and just like to look!
I'd always read that they have a wonderful temperament, calm, easy going. Yet, when I look at the ads, they are frequently described as "hotter". I'd be interested in your take on them since you have loads of experience with the breed.
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 3:22 pm:
Liliana, talk about all legs! So cute! My next door neighbors have 3 Peruvians. They can be a kick to watch.
Did you get all of your horses from Cozumel, or did you bring them in from elsewhere?
I bet it is a challenge to keep horses down there in Cozumel. Have you ever tried planting grass seed in your pasture? My parents live on the coast in Florida, and they say their soil is nothing but sand, but because of the rain, and warm temps year round, that they have pretty good grass. Granted, you would probably have to clear the rock to give the grass room to come through. Just a thought. Most of our pasture is sand, and we planted some dryland pasture mix on it this fall in the most bare areas, so we'll see if we get anything to come up.
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 4:00 pm:
Thanks for the comment Corinne! He’s precious isn’t he? Once he stood up he didn’t know what came next as you can see! BTW I am very sorry I was a wet blanket the other day! People can be such sh…t to animals here that sometimes I just sink like a rock!
Lisa,
Gosh I’d kill for a paddock I have an area of 20m x 20m which I have been covering with black soil which might as well be gold dust and I plant an African grass (they call it Guinean) that grows pretty well, I’ve been enquiring about Pangola grass which as far as I know is very popular in California but I just cannot find a supplier anywhere! Recently I have been able to get alfalfa but it’s pretty pricey. Still the guys have to eat even if I don’t…
Another BIG problem is to find someone to help as people here think that animals are Piñatas! And as you may know I’m in the saddle bag group so sometimes things are a bit heavy for me to carry, funnily enough as I was cutting my veins with a bar of soap the other day and I read about all this great gals at 60 still going and it gave me a huge boost of confidence that I can still go on longer than I thought taking care of my guys..
All the horses came from one place or another in Cozumel!
Cheers
Liliana
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 5:03 pm:
Liliana no worries, I know you have seen your share of horses and animals down there who have fallen pray to neglect and maltreatment and I for one appreciate all you do for the ones that are under your charge, it would really get to me too. Just continue to be strong for them! And if you ever get to the point where you have to go without food so you can feed them just give a shout out, I am sure all your fellow HA members would jump on the band waggon to send you some things you need including myself and Herb.
Keep up the good work.
God Bless you and your animals.
Take care,
Corinne
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Member:
ilona
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 5:14 pm:
We have Peruvian Paso's and they seem to cover the full range of temperament from calm to more on the hot side. As far as smooth ride goes they are really great with a strong desire to please the rider.
I just sold one to a cattle rancher...he loves her to death and can spend hours in the saddle over rough terrain because of the combination of sure-footedness and smooth gait.
I have come to really love the breed.
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Member:
karent
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 5:32 pm:
Hi Judy,
I enjoyed your website. I also noticed that one of your horses for sale was sired by Simba de Oro grandsire was Antares. I used to live 2 doors down from Debbie Dutton, who owned both those stallions at the time I lived in Norco (I have since moved to New Mexico). I have no idea whether she still owns them or not. I fell madly in love with Simba, I thought he was so beautiful. Debbie also owns a halflinger stallion named Ableman. I used to own both his mother and full sister.
You really have some beautiful horses.
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 6:14 pm:
If you find a supplier in the US, but just can't get it shipped down there, let me know. I think I could convince my aunt & uncle to bring it down there for you. Shoot for that matter, they'd probably be happy to give you a little help around there, or give you the name of some friends that are perhaps a little more animal friendly than most. I'm really good at volunteering people!
Animals are definitely not given much respect down there. Unfortunately, often times it's not so good in the States either.
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 6:31 pm:
Liliana, I just did a quick google search for that grass seed you mentioned. I clicked on a page, and it doesn't have that kind, but it mentions bermudagrass and bahiagrass as being very common pasture grasses in the Southeastern U.S. I think your climate is very similar. I don't know about the bermuda, but the bahiagrass is supposed to do well in sandy soils, both dry and wet. Just wanted to throw that out there. I'm sure they are much easier to come by, and probably less expensive. Do you have any idea
how many acres 6 hectare is? If you could get some good grass growing, it could save you a lot of money on hay.
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Member:
ilona
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 6:46 pm:
Liliana,
Cutting your wrists with a bar of soap....you are too funny!
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 7:41 pm:
Thank you all sooo much, although we haven't met I feel as if my best friends are on HA.
I'll have a look for Bermuda grass and bahiagrass and let you know. Thank you.
I wonder if there be any problems at customs though? They are so tight now!
Thanks again
Liliana
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 7, 2007 - 8:05 pm:
You are probably right about customs. It is an ag product. Although, one year a bunch of the family went to Cozumel for Thanksgiving, and we brought frozen ham and turkey. They let us in with it! If there are other animal items you need, that you can't really get down there, let me know. My aunt and uncle often bring stuff with them for the folks down there.
It sounds like the bermuda doesn't do as well in sand, due to nematodes I think it said--that was on lawngrass.com. I also noticed that Dr. O has some info on pasture grasses on the site.
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Member:
cspanhel
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 9:06 am:
Thanks to all who complimented my stallion (shown on the member profile photo)!
As for PREs being 'hotter,' I do not agree, though, of course there are individual variations...Approximately half of the breed registry in the U.S. are stallions, due in large part to the superb temperament that is characteristic of PREs/Andalusians. My stallion is the best behaved horse in the barn! and a total sweetheart, too.
I think we have only scratched the surface of the dressage potential of this breed. But as with all breeds, not all PREs would excel at dressage. I am lucky in that I inherited most of my breeding program from a friend that is a USDF dressage judge.
I wrote an article on the spanish horse in dressage at the Athens Olympics...If you would like to read it, email me privately, and I'll send it to you. I used to have it on my web site, but I just checked, and I guess I took it off the site...
Cynthia
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 1:24 pm:
Cynthia, thanks for the info - I am really fascinated by this breed and very interested in learning more. I will email you for the article.
Thanks,
Fran
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Member:
judyhens
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 11:06 pm:
Hi Fran and all,
RE: Our take on the "hotness" of the Andalusian.
Magico, our senior Andalusian stallion, is one of the best lesson horses on the property. He is also an awesome basketball player and can beat many humans! He is calm, quiet, and always wants to please. His nobility is what epitomizes horses in general and Andalusians in particular. They are known for their "brio" or willing energy. This is a horse who was a war horse in Europe and is used for fighting bulls in Spain and Portugal because of their agility and bravery. (I HATE THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF BULLFIGHTING!!!!!!!) But they are willing to go that extra mile because they seem to crave a close relationship with their "human". They are extremely versatile. Dressage, jumping, western, reining, - no problem. They are winning in the Olympics. Our junior stallion, Saltador Oro, won reserve champion USDF all breed P.R.E. training level award for 2006. They seem to be making tremendous inroads in the dressage arena. Their minds are so good and their hearts are so big.
Are they hot? If you ask for that extra spirit they are all there for you. Do you want calm? You ask, they give. Ours have so much heart and drive to please that just being around them, enjoying their beauty, nobility, and affection, smelling their sweet breath, is wonderful for the soul. We currently have other fantastic breeds and have owned representatives of additional breeds in the past. I love them all. But the relationship we have with the Andalusian stallions is something one only dreams of. It's like living a fairy tale.
I don't know if differences in disposition exists in different bloodlines. But if ours are characteristics, I am confident that the Andalusian would fulfill every expectation - and more.
You are all welcome to visit our ranch if you are ever in the Austin, Texas area and would like to meet Andalusians in person or ride one. We also have guest facilities!
Judy
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https://www.ranchodellago.net/
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Member:
judyhens
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 11:22 pm:
Hi Karen,
Sorry I over-looked your post. I have been out of town and just got back, saw Fran's question and plowed ahead without reading the other posts... :-(
Thank you for your compliments on our horses. They are like members of our family. We did purchase Lindera de Oro from Debbie when she was only a few days old. The bloodline is impeccable. We, too, fell in love with Simba. He is truly a feast for the eyes! His long white mane, conformation, temperament, and deep gold color just take one's breath away! I don't know where he is or how Debbie is now. She had a lot of very good quality horses. I think she was breeding some Haflingers also. That breed is a hoot! They come pre-programmed with a sense of humor. They, too, are versatile, people loving, horses who are highly intelligent, and according to an Equus article on the Austrian breed, have a working life of ~ 40 years! A good bargain for training dollars...
Plus, they are extremely easy keepers. The Haflinger who won the all breed USDF Haflinger third level (I think) award had a dressage score of approx. 70. Higher than a lot of breeds. These guys are goofy, always happy, always running up to greet you. These are the clowns in our herd.
Have a great day and thanks again for visiting our site!
Judy
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Feb 9, 2007 - 9:45 am:
Judy, thank you for your response. I did visit your website and your horses are lovely. You describe them as I have read of them. Where I live, the predominent type of horse is a QH or Paint. So, I have no chance to see an Andalusian in person ( haven't seen any at the dressage shows either)- all I know is what I have read and I seem to have picked up a few mixed messages.
But, again, I'm really fascinated with the breed and have, for about a year now, been strongly considering one as my next horse (I adore my mare and although she is older, I'm praying for many more good years with her). There's something exceptionally noble about the Andalusians that really appeals to me.
...So, one of these days, I may just take you up on your offer and stop by for a visit (I promise to call first!)
Thanks again.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, Feb 9, 2007 - 10:04 am:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICbUDJJtjV4&NR
is this a PRE? One would say this gal rides with a VERY independent seat.. !
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
liliana
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Posted on Friday, Feb 9, 2007 - 12:05 pm:
Ann
She does have a great independent seat, however the horse which looks Andalusian to me seems a bit off on the right front slightly lame wouldn't you say?
Watch closely as the video starts and you’ll see...I know he is gaited, what I call Paso fino, and to my eye he looks on even, beautiful horse though then again I love dapple grey!
Liliana
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