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Discussion on German Warmbloods help
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 3:13 pm:
I have a question about the Warmbloods. I was online, looking at *Oldenburgs*, came across a horse called Contango (OMG!! gorgeous). He was advertised as Olden. but was actually a Dutch WB.
He was registered by Dutch, Holsteiner, Oldenburg and the ISR.
I know that they are open to each other. But why do they choose to call him an Oldenburg ? Would calling him OLdenburg be more benefit to breeding?? I cant imagine it would be? So why Oldenburg?
JOS and others... some WB 101 please
PS I LOVED everything I saw on that horse! His booty, his shoulder, his whole topline, color...YUMMMY
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 4:26 pm:
Leslie, I don't know a darn thing about Warmbloods but I just have to say he is STUNNING!
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 6:06 pm:
 He was 'thrown out' of Holland because of his offspring[he threw I think small and very big ones and often too 'oldfashioned'] He was approved as stallion in I think all of the above studbooks and so his foals can be registered in either of them according to their mums pedigree.
Sorry I do not agree with you knew him fairly well and thought[ONLY my personal opinion! ] he was heavy without much 'electricity' he missed as we called it 'the golden thread' . Ofcourse when used with a mare that counteracted those things he did from time to time very well[he does have a good pedigree and was able to throw back on that] But why not use one who doesn't have those faults himself?
Jos
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Member:
simonem
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 6:57 pm:
Leslie,
I don't know a ton about warmblood registries, as TBs are my personal fav, but I do know that Contango's primary breed was in fact Oldenburg. I double checked with his breeding farm's website (Iron Spring Farm) and they had his breed listed as Oldenburg. That farm is among the premier warmblood breeders in America. If you think he's nice, check out their other stallions...beautiful!! By the way, don't know if you gathered this from your search on him, but he died about 2 years ago.
Also, I believe the reason he was kicked out of the Netherlands is because he was an EVA positive stallion, and they created a rule during his lifetime that EVA positive stallions could not be bred within their country. I can't find much about this by doing a search on him, but I remember reading about it somewhere a few years ago.
Simone
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 7:46 pm:
Sorry Simone his foals didn't really please the judges in Holland. But you shouldn't forget the reasons I stated are a very good reason to approve a stallion in the US or Canada with the huge amount of TB in the mares.
And Oldenburg has a mixed 'pedigree' Originally Hannover Trahkenen and Holstein were the 'big' breeds )ldenburg Westfalen ea are mostly combinations of these three[and arab and TB] As KWPN used a lot of the three and mixed with SF [as did Hoslein and Hannover to make it just as confusing as your coloured horses over here ]
Jos
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 8:26 pm:
Jos
Give us some examples of what the 'excellent' stallions with the Golden Thread are!!! And what is this Golden thread? Is it Je ne sais pas quoi? Brio? Presence?
Pleaaassse, please please!Elaborate
Simone,
Ewwwww, EVA?! grotty. poor thing.
What lines in the TBs do you prefer? And do you have a preference for racing, eventing, trail riding etc?
Gosh girls... I think he was handsome.
K Im off to go see the Iron spring website
Cheers and thanks for the replies
L
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 10:25 pm:
Jos, I wonder if this is a case of "old fashioned" meaning not very refined? As with the other thread about Paints/QH's, many breeds change with trends. To me the classic and baroque horses are so beautiful, but I think most of them are going for "modern type" meaning more TB looking.
Is that the meaning you are talking about? He looks to me like he would have made a nice baby out of a TB mare.
Erika
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 11:37 pm:
Yes I agree Erika, it is 'modish' but I think it also changes with the type of mares a studbook has available.
Still I think the 'golden thread' stallions usually give something exceptional with a lot of types.
I think Ramiro Nimmerdor and Voltaire in Holland and in Holstein Landgraf Lord [and thus their father Ladykiller] and Caretino Contender [and thus Capitol] would qualify.
Oldenburg I know less about but Furioso II and Inschallah would have been my choice.
But breeding is personal and I think the combination of parents is the most important always and not only Daddy or mummy so 'goldhairs' can appear quite unexpected!
Jos
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 8:42 am:
Golden thread - a lot of the descendants of Cor de la Bruyere - would you not agree, Jos? Including Cavalier, of course.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 10:01 am:
Ahhhha, Golden Thread:Prepotency!
fun discussion
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 12:41 pm:
You know Imogen, Cor is a perfect example of a stallion though breeding very good also giving [mouth/character]problems quite regularly, and with the Irish mares and their different conformation/attitude /pedigree that should have been less of a problem. SOO a stallion is just as good as the combination with the mare he is matched with!
There was an old story of Hugo Simon matching Landgrafin his famous showjumper with Cor and saying'if the foal gets daddies attitude and mummies balance over jumps I am in real trouble if it get's daddies way of jumping and mummies attitude it will be a champion.' It was, the result was 'Cash"
Jos
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 - 4:35 am:
Absolutely agree, Jos. Lots of mad Cavalier mares with swan necks and bad teeth here as a result!
But plenty of very good horses too and I heard a vet called Aidan Finn talking a week ago saying that in his opinion Cavalier had a huge effect on improving the tendency to navicular of some Irish draft breeding, meaning that the offspring had much longer competing lives.
In the Irish draught world I would say Pride of Shaunlara is the Golden Thread horse.
Imogen
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 - 2:50 pm:
Do you guys know any on the Dressage WB Statesman?
TY
L
Ps: to Imogene have you seen Cheryls pics of her Silver Granite mare? very nice. I think she just started her jumping this year and looks to be coming along nicely. Reminded me alot of the pics you posted
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 - 3:24 pm:
Where are the pictures?
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 - 5:10 pm:
Hey Lori, where u been?
Imo's pic of her ISH is https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/22303.html#POST151707
Cheryls ISH is on her facebook page.
Statesman video: https://www.elitestallions.co.uk/index.php?id=13&singleid=125&displayvideo=1
I also liked Don Shufro(SP?)
L
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Member:
canderso
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 2, 2009 - 7:37 am:
Awww guys.... shucks! I opened my own thread for ooohs and aahhhhhs... Imogen I also have a question for you on comment in this thread...
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 2, 2009 - 9:28 am:
Hi Leslie, Statesman is SanDrO and Donnerhall in fourth and third generation very good but a bit far away, Landadel gave pretty horses. Titus has slipped my mind a bit but I believe he has some Vollkorn xx blood on his dams side[gave good sportshorses]
On the whole good ancestors but a bit far away to my liking, I would want exceptional sports results from Statesman before I bred to him as blood is available with the results closer by[just my opinion] unless he would fit my mare perfectly.
Jos
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Monday, Jul 6, 2009 - 9:05 pm:
Thanks Jos...its nice to have someone who is in the know
So I went to that sporthorse-data website and found a stallion, Landwerder (in america) that has the lines you mentioned above...landadel/furiosoII semi close in his pedigree. Do you know of him?
I did see Donnerhall but you cant get his semen in america, it seems.
Infact it seems most of them dont ship semen to US.
I saw Argentinus(sp?) was available here but Im just not sure about him. Is he sane or koo-koo?
LOL...if you get tired of me always asking questions, please let me know.!
Leslie
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 7, 2009 - 4:12 pm:
Hi Leslie, I never get tired of bloodlines no matter what kind of horse!
Argentinus is an excellent stallion good conformation good performance good character if you have a mare with enough blood. He would probably give an excellent trot and front with about any TB type, we from time to time got to 'heavy', and old fashioned foals.
If you want to import semen there are a LOT of very good stallions available for over the world shipping and then you don't have to look for the performance in second and third generation. It is costly though I would use it in proven broodmares or in case I would want to breed something especially for myself.
I guess though that for the price of "Landwerder"
you can use imported semen to. I m not to impressed with the Gotthard blood unless from certain excellent marelines and Landadel isn't my favororite Landgraf son either[a bit because of the Farnese blood] but he should give children with a very nice character and the bloodlines are not bad either. If you outcross with a lot of TB he could I think do well.
Still depending on what you want[showjumper or Dressage] there would perhaps be better stallions available[ha but that won't mean a better foal aren't horses fun?]
Jos
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 7, 2009 - 5:06 pm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPa7cTjlvA8&feature=related
a new flavor of the year to watch.. I would be very interested to see if he throws his movement on .. way more for most riders i will admitt.. but just WOW..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009 - 7:09 am:
WOW! is right Ann! Just gorgeous, but I don't know how anyone without a bungy cord spine could ride him!
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 8, 2009 - 11:53 am:
BOING!
Here is a link to a couple of his fillies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e_nJlQS3Xo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebehindthebitb log%2Ecom%2F2008%2F05%2Fquaterback%2Dsensational%2Dstallions%2Dus%2Ehtml&feature =player_embedded
and a colt LOL I like how she tells the old guy "Can you run fast on the way back??" lol too funny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j21zfqpssAM&feature=related
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Monday, Jul 13, 2009 - 12:31 pm:
As I peruse the stallion sites. I find my eye liking/ drawn to these guys:
SanDrO Hit
Steadinger
Lord Sinclair
Furst Romancier
Contango
Gatsby
I guess Im infatuated with dark bay all around 16'3-17 hh!
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Jul 13, 2009 - 1:05 pm:
Ok Quaterback is amazing to watch, BUT if that rider can't get him to travel straight or collected, what are the odds that a mere mortal could do it? That guy could probably ride anything, and even he is unseated twice in the canter as that stallion gets chargey, and the horse is crooked (haunches right) throughout). Ann Gribbons has a wonderful article on selecting horses for FEI potential, and she warns against falling for the WOW trot. I love this horse, but I see her point.
SanDrO Hit has produced a lot of good dressage horses, and has at least 2 sons in the US-- Sagnol is approved for the Holsteiner book, though I don't know whether he has any performance record of his own. A friend of mine has 2 SanDrO Hit grand-foals this year. One looks and moves like his Momma, who is a classic C-line mare, and the filly seems to favor Sagnol more.
Wasn't Lord Sinclair sire to those naughty foals in that Gorilla Valentine video? If so, those foals were all very close in type, if untrustworthy around stuffed toys.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Monday, Jul 13, 2009 - 1:38 pm:
never saw the GV video.... utube?
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Jul 13, 2009 - 10:56 pm:
Ann posted this last year's around Valentine's Day--
Here's the thread.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 - 7:35 am:
How did I miss this the first time?? Very cute! Thanks for providing the link again, Elizabeth.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 14, 2009 - 10:26 am:
Oh my that is too cute! Thanks for the link
Love them SS babies.
LOL "evil spawn of a broodmare"
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 19, 2009 - 9:50 pm:
OOOOO
I am in LOVE with this horse. He is a youngster. But man is he handsome. His dressage index was over 148 at his stallion test.
Jos do you know any of his Oldenburg dam line, Edoste?
https://www.schockemoehle.com/typo3conf/ext/pferde_tabellenauswahl/res/php/popup. php?movie=https://www.schockemoehle.com/uploads/tx_pferdehengstkollektion/fuerst_ romancier.flv&filmbreite=512&filmhoehe=384&player=https://www.schockemoehle.com/t ypo3conf/ext/pferde_tabellenauswahl/res/players/player_flv_maxi.swf
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Monday, Jul 20, 2009 - 4:20 am:
What a beauty! What a mover! Thanks Leslie.
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New Member:
lizzotp
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 3, 2010 - 7:47 pm:
Ok, this thread is a bit old, but thought I would contribute anyway:
Warmbloods are a type of horse. For example, a foal that is the baby of two Hanoverians but is born and presented in Oldenburg will be registered as an Oldenburg. Same with Dutch Warmbloods. And practically any Warmblood "breed". Basically all that the specific "breed" means is, that the horse is accepted and registered in that specific registry. For that reason, a horse can be registered in several different registries (for example Holstein, Hannover, Oldenburg.... American Warmblood registry......). Stallions can be approved for several registries also. Just means that each of those registries certifies that this stallion is deemed acceptable to further its breeding goals. The breeding associations are not linked to specific bloodlines, but a specific type of horse. If the horse meets their type requirements, it can be registered in that registry.
Hope this makes sense :-)
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 3, 2010 - 8:43 pm:
Thanks Elizabeth Much appreciated
After some reading on a different forum I have come to know that they are not different breeds but different registries, that are in different areas in Germany.
Can you explain what the specific type each registry is known or looks for?
I find this fascinating
Thanks
Lelsike
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New Member:
lizzotp
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 7, 2010 - 6:04 pm:
All the German registries - and most Warmblood registries, in fact - are looking for the 'perfect' dressage and/or showjumping horse. The kind of horse it takes for either discipline is quite similar and all the registries tend to have very similar goals (the regular: up-hill build, good slant on the shoulder, correct legs, good proportions.....). Basically, all the German Warmbloods are basically the same - bred with the same goals in mind and only very slight variation. Some may prefer taller horses, or Dressage bloodlines over jumping bloodlines... but just about any registry will accept any high quality jumper or dressage horse into their books.
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Member:
canderso
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 7:50 am:
I personally think it is a shame that stallion testing scores are being given the same credence as actual performance in the competition ring. I just don't understand how the stallion test can evaluate brain, heart and competition soundness.
Yes the scores are useful, but should they be enough to justify an animal going straight into a breeding career? I wonder...
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New Member:
lizzotp
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 1:15 pm:
I agree that test scores don't say it all - but conformation is what "puts all those zeros on the price tag". Grand Prix horses with near-perfect conformation are a "dime a dozen", the ones with heart are the real winners... but I really don't know how hereditary "heart" is...
What I think the bigger issue is, is that many people breed beautiful, correct stallions to "sub standard" mares - I believe that research has shown that the mare actually has more genetic influence on the outcome of a foal than the stallion does. Incorrect conformation of a broodmare that is bred to the best stallion in the world will lead to a poor quality foal. People don't seem to realize that... Even the breed associations allow mares with significant conformational flaws into their 'main mare books'. But then, its hard to get a large enough population of quality mares - not nearly as many stallions are needed than are mares...
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 8, 2010 - 2:02 pm:
I think the Holstein Verband puts emphasis on mare line. I love that.
Re- stallions : as Jos pointed out above~ its all about the Golden Thread.
Leslie
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