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Discussion on Appy vs Spotted
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 3:03 am:
Don't all spotted horses have some Appy in them?
How can you breed for spots without Appaloosa blood?
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Member:
Gillef
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 7:06 am:
I think you may find the web site of the British Spotted Pony Society interesting www.britishspottedpony.com
Gillian
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 5, 2005 - 10:37 am:
You are absolutely right that you can only breed for spots with the LP gene present... how much color you get then is how much of a PATN gene you have as well , OR the sabino genes.... in simple terms... the LP gene is the on off switch for color... Also the LP gene will show gradual changes in some horses coat pattern too.. ( thus a horse of a different color years after birth) which is a secondary effect of the LP gene....
Do all horses carry the LP gene, i don't think so.... but with selective breeding you can start ''trying'' to get the gene in a foal, then cross breed, then breed back to a LP horse, thus going for the coat pattern and the performance as well...
Breeding for spotted color is fascinating and very complicated... i am just dabbling in it... and ENJOYING every minute of it as well....
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 10:19 am:
Thanks a lot, Gillian and Ann, I see it is a lot more complicated than I initially thought.
Now you got me struggling to understand spots and patterns, Ann. I should have left you alone with this spot thing...
You are right that it is fascinating. Though spots are of no significance to me, it surely is a nice chance to understand genetics a bit better (as if I understand it at all).
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 11:31 am:
This is a great topic because I love spotted horses! Thanks for the info Ann and Gillian.
Do either of you have information on the possible origins of spotted horses? Everything I've read says spots have been around since ancient times with the majority influence on today's breeds coming from Spanish lines. Is this just folklore or is there something to it?
dyd
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 1:59 pm:
Do a search for something called the appaloosa project? They have nice information on how the appaloosa coloring and genetics work. I can't remember the specific site. There is also a yahoo group I believe.
I love appy's and dabble with creating spots too. I am working with appaloosa mustangs that shuffle. whats even neater is in the herd management areas next to me there is a high prevalence of Pintaloosa's gorgeous horses. usually the back half is appy and the front half and leggs are paint marked. We also have been getting quite a few sabinos.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Monday, Jun 6, 2005 - 4:30 pm:
Thanks for the tip, Cheryl, the site is:
www.the appaloosaproject.org
Unfortunately, I have no time to study the subject right now...
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 8, 2005 - 1:56 pm:
Thanks, Cheryl. You are correct--there is a Yahoo group dedicated to the Appaloosa Project.
Many thanks!
Would really like to see a picture of the Pintaloosas! Lucky you that they're nearby!
D.
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 8, 2005 - 4:03 pm:
I will see if I saved any, any that come through are adopted out right away. Very beautiful horses not the best conformation though tended to have very long backs and short bodies but still gorgeous. They tended to reflect the conformation of the herd paints, whereas the appys have larger and well porportioned bodies.
I just had a wild 8 yr old appy mare started and the movement is phenomenal, if she takes to saddle well we will start her under english or dressage.
As for the original post I do think there are some spotted breeds that are not appy decent as in american appy decent. Do a search on rare breeds, I think there is a spotted german horse of some sort.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 8, 2005 - 6:18 pm:
https://www.knabstruppers.com/
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Dyduroc
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 1:01 pm:
Thank you, Ann! Very interesting to learn that Apollon is here in the States!
dyd
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 1:29 pm:
I am DrOoling thanks Ann that was the breed I was thinking of.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 4:03 pm:
you all are very welcome... I had planned on breeding to Apollon this year, even flew down to see him in person... AWESOME horse.. huge boned, his knees are the size of my husbands two fists together.. guessing the cannon bone to be over 10 inches..they are massive but light as a feather on their feet... any way long story longer, the owner is having problems and I was a little concern about getting the semen on time.. that can be very costly to the mare owner, me... BUT am breeding one of my beautiful Hanoverian mares to a NEW imported homozygous stallion next year... this year I am breeding for *as I throw the dice** a homozygous filly from my Appy/Hano mare , thus I can breed the filly in the future to ANY Knapps stallion and get the lovely color...
fingers crossed...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 4:38 pm:
Ann, Nice I envy you, have you ridden one? How does their temperment seem to be?
Would be nice to see one crossed on my Zodiac Matador granddaughter(arab) awesome action!
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 5:02 pm:
Cheryl, no never have ridden one , my understanding tho is that the temperment is wonderful.... easy going , good work ethic...
Crossing with an Arab, hummm i know the Arab breed shows are becoming very populated with the Arab / warm blood cross...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 5:56 pm:
Ann, yes the crosses are becoming very popular, they get arab refinement, larger size, higher action, when crossed to warmbloods, specifically dutch harness. Most of them seem to loose the dish face but keep the rest of the looks.
I personally like the natural action of arabs selected specifically for it.
Just would be nice to see the beauty of an arab with the beauty of spots! I have seen a few western pleasure crosses with spots nice looking but because of the cross to regular appy's the movement could definitly be better for the things we have in mind. I think I shall have to just tattoo some on her. Her grandsire sired exceptional Park Horse movement, nice for dressage and english without having to cross to other breeds for movement, his warmblood crosses I do have to say were phenomenal.
Sorry for straying from the topic, I enjoyed talking spots with you.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 6:22 pm:
It's my understanding that after the subduing of the American Indians by the U.S. Government, a regulation was passed that required Appaloosas be bred only to Drafts, (supposedly to slow them down) and that is why so many Appys have the sturdy bone, thick, milky-walled feet and large heads that many folks associate with the Appaloosa breed. It is also my understanding that one of the first requirements of registering an Appy is that "it contain NO Draft blood." In an effort to recover the "original" Appaloosa horse that was such a boon to the American Indians, I was told that there is a breeding program in which Appaloosas are being crossed with Akhal Tekes. The cross gives the resulting Appaloosas more refinement, and as a bonus, some have a metallic coat. I believe they are being bred in the northwest in Idaho or thereabouts.
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 6:39 pm:
Holly that is very interesting... I have no knowledge of any of the above...But do know of the foundation type appy, nothing was ever said about drafts in the bloodlines..?
I basically am breeding for color.. I want the athletic sport horse type for jumping/dressage, and also want the intelligence and sturdiness of the appy blood... ok Christos hit me...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Chohler
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 7:04 pm:
Hmm interesting......... I am familiar with the spotted indian ponies, shuffler breeding a trait treasured by native americans. They tend not to be brickhoused and roman nosed. Don't know about the draft bit or akhal tekes. Interesting though.
I did happen to notice a nice blm mare that looks like the old style war horse body, come in she was white with dark skin had a nice blanket colt. Beautiful.
One cannot question the sturdiness of appy's!!
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 7:49 pm:
When I did a "google" search of "Breeding Program of Appaloosas and Akhal Tekes," I came up with lots of sites. This was the first one listed: www.nezperceappaloosas.com/sys-tmpl/door/
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 9, 2005 - 8:51 pm:
Holly thanks for the web site... You know i remember reading at one time something about the Russian horse.. but never bothered to read to much more.. Thanks...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Jun 10, 2005 - 2:39 pm:
Lol, Ann, you got me wrong.
I know nothing of spotted horses, so I hold nothing against them. There's not a single one in my country as far as I know and I have never seen one in my life.
I see here that there's a lot more to a spotted horse than just spots. You "spotted people" may need to bring these qualities out a bit more.
Having browsed through "spotted" pages a few times I was under the impression that there's nothing but spots in there. I am glad to see this is not the case.
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