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Discussion on Major inference issues on new horse
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 9, 2002 - 10:20 pm:
Hi DrO
I think I have been too quiet for too long. 
I recently bought a horse, he is an Orlov Trotter imported from Russia.
He came with major interference sores. He has them on his front legs on the inside just above both ankles, on his front heels and one on his left hind. He has side bone on his LH.
If I keep these sores unprotected they are busted open within hours. I keep him in bell boots and turn him out with boots and a donut and covering on the hind.
I rode him today and the worst sore on his rf heel was opened afterwards, even with the bell boots on.
I am putting blue powder on the wounds with gauze and vetwrap, and furasin spray powder on the heel.
Any recommendations for this guy?
He has front shoes and was just shod.
Thanks
Barbara
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 6:32 am:
I guess sending him back to the hinter land is out of the question. What has your farrier/vet tried so far, barbara? Why does he interfere, or in other words what are his specific conformational flaws. How is he shod now?
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 7:37 am:
DrO
Shipping him back is not an option.
He's been here for 7 years and seems to like the US of A.
His owner shod him while we were there. He was in the Russian cavalary so is quite proficient and shoes professionally.
He put aluminum shoes on him that are extra wide across the toe, otherwise nothing special. He is not shod behind. I was thinking maybe rolling his back toes might help with him hitting his heels. Any ideas what I can put on his heels besides just bell boots to keep those wounds from being busted open?
My vet helped with what to treat the wounds with but had no advice on the trimming aspect. She had never seen anything like it.
I will post a few pics so you can see what he looks like.
~Barbara
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 7:39 am:
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 7:41 am:
this pic isn't the best for his legs but will give you and idea of what his body looks like
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 7:43 am:
and one more.....
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 7:46 am:
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 3:59 pm:
How does he move? By this I mean, if someone leads him away from you on a straight line and a flat surface, how do his hooves travel in the air? Do you see evidence of winging/paddling? How does he land? - evenly? What appears to be his breakover point? These are the type of things a farrier and/or "leg" vet evaluate when making a plan.
IF you have his "old" shoes - you can look at them and deduce a little by how the were are worn.
Since he has these interference issues with the current history of shoeing, I believe I'd start by having a farrier I trust evaluate him and possibly re-do the job. None of the photos you posted show extreme conformational issues to me, but it is easier to see issues when you actually watch how the horse travels.
He may be a candidate for going shoeless for a bit to help with healing.
What type of riding has he been used for? What are your intentions for him?
In the mean time, I believe I'd invest in some brush boots that cover the areas likely to get dinged up.
He looks like a sweetie and rather handsome. How's his English? ;O)
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 8:08 pm:
He doesn't wing or paddle. He has no major conformational flaws except his back is a bit long.
The first day we had him I took the bell boots off in the stall and within an hour the RF heel was hamburger. He was not stall walking or laying down.
So now, all of the sores are always covered, which I know may slow healing but uncovered they would never heal.
You can see in the second photo that he DOES have boots on, I've already made the investment. All sore are protected with boots and donuts. That is my number one question. Besides these boots what else can I do? The sores are not healing. Bell boot are not protecting his heels. I just purchased a thicker, stay in place bell boot with hopes that will cut down on the trauma.
I agree the farrier will be a big player. I just hate to yank freshly done shoes off. They were put on by his importer/owner of 7 years. I will be calling my farrier to have him come over for a look see. My vet didn't have much comment on the matter.
To answer your other questions:
The horse was a 5' jumper and last year did equitation.
I will be having one lesson a week on him and my husband will be light trail riding him 2-3 times a week. He is trained to 3rd level Dressage.
He is turned out for 5 hours a day. He was only getting one hour before we owned him and 5 hours is all he will tolerate. He doesn't run outside.
He is strikingly handsome and a wonderful fellow.
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 9:31 pm:
What a classy fellow! It's hard to tell from the picture - could just be the way he is standing - but is he slightly cow-hocked? He looks slightly heavier and more developed in the front end. Are the sores recent or do they look like a problem of long standing? At any rate, since he is not shod behind, you might as well have your farrier roll and rocker those back toes just to give those front heels some relief.
I have to wonder if the front shoes ( with the "extra wide across the toes" )could be slowing his breakover and holding the front feet on the ground just a nanosecond too long - especially at the extended trot.
Good luck with your new fellow....I wish he were mine. THE HORSE!! THE HORSE! I meant..not your husband!
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 10, 2002 - 10:20 pm:
I would square off his toes in the back -- almost to the white line, and have him wear heeled shoes in the back.
Shorten his toes in front and roll them.
It's interesting that a longbacked horse would have the interference back to front. If this is a new phenomenon, are you sure of his coordination in the back? Could there be some nerve damage that is causing him to misplace his feet when he moves out?
The non-rotating neoprene bell boots should help.
Can you have someone video tape you while riding or video tape him moving around his paddock or pasture?
Holly
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 11, 2002 - 4:45 am:
Barbara,
The pictures certainly do not help with what is causing the problem as he movement seems fine. Also your description that the foot flight is straight, as it appears in the photo, furthers the mystery of the sores inside the front legs which would typically be interference from the opposite leg. You do see this horse striking himself don't you? Or do these sores just appear? What is the blue powder you describe above?
As suggested above the strategy for decreasing clipping the front heels from behind would be to decrease the reach of the rear foot and quicken the break over of the front foot. The tactics used are to remove as much toe as possible from both the rear and the front feet. Then rocker the front foot or shoe. Use as light a shoe as possible on the front.
I don't typically rocker the rear foot but if the above did not work I would try it, the question is, "does the decrease in hoof length compensate for the earlier breakover".
If you are looking for an alternative to a bell boot to increase protection low on the heel consider using Old Macs horseboots. I believe they could fit over a shoe.
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 11, 2002 - 11:47 am:
He sounds like he will be great fun and he is handsome.
Have you actually seen himself interfere/clip himself while moving? If he is tracking straight and long backed, it is hard to imagine how he interferes. It started me wondering if he hurts himself somehow the stall, perhaps getting up/down, etc. How tall is he and how big is the stall?
The western catalogs have boots that protect the cannon area and come down over the hoof - sort of a combo boot. A friend of mine used to use this with his mare on her hind legs as she would "clip." Or, the performance horse boots may be an alternative as the sling under the ankle. These guys are running a sale ... https://www.equinesupplydirect.net/
Perhaps in the stall, a wrap (standing leg wrap or even a shipping boot) would provide protection, but allow the wounds to heal better? I'd be tempted to periodically rinse the wounds and just cover/protect. Is the blue stuff genicin (sp?)? I tend to be a minimalist with the topical stuff.
Given he has a history of this, and he's had the same "shoer" while having the history, I'd have a go at shoeing him in some other way, or not shoeing at all if that is an option. The work load you describe and footing may allow this, or to leave the shoes off the back.
Hope you can figure out something that works!
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Posted on Friday, Jul 12, 2002 - 3:48 pm:
I may have skim read this thread and misunderstood in which case I apologise... I don't think this explains hamburger heels (love that phrase) but...
I have seen interference injuries on horses which they deliberately do to themselves trying to stamp on flies that are biting them. However these are usually on the inside of the rear pasterns and fetlocks. I've never seen them on the front. Just my twopence... or I suppose I should say cents now we have the Euro...
All the best
Imogen
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 16, 2002 - 7:29 am:
Sorry for the delay in response.
The powder I was told was good for the sores on the inside of his front legs is "Wonder Dust".
Ingredients include: hydrated lime 71%, copper sulfate 13%, activated charcoal 5%, flowers of sulfur 2%, Potassium Alum 5%, lodoform 2%. These sores are dry.
I found bell boots that seem to be doing the trick. They are "ballistic bell boots" by Pro choice. One of his heels is healed and the hamburger one is getting better. I am spraying furasen on the heels.
The donut on the hind is keeping that wound safe. I just need to watch for sores from the donut. I am thinking I should get a feelce cover for it. The side bone sticks out so far, I think it will always be an issue.
Christine, he is 16.3 and the stall is 12 X 12. The time he chopped up his heel he had not been down in the stall. He is currently unshod behind.
Imogen, he is vey sensititve to flies. I think he could contribute to the inside sores by stamping his feet and rubbing his nose on them. We do thoroughly spray him every AM before turn out.
The blacksmith should be here within the week to help.
Thanks for all the replies.
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 16, 2002 - 9:02 am:
Barbara,
I suggest avoiding powders of this type as they will increase scarring and scars are not as tough as skin. My choice would be a nitrofurazone based spray.
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 16, 2002 - 9:16 pm:
OK, thanks DrO
I had been spraying furasen on them initially. When my vet looked at him she said something like "no furasen below the knees and hocks" because of proud flesh.
I will go back to the spray and see how it works. He has no proud flesh at this time.
Oh, and to answer some of the earlier questions. Although he looks cow-hocked in the photo, he's not. Also, he does still have a bit of a stallion neck making him look heavier up front.
Thanks again for your input.
~Barbara
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 17, 2002 - 8:26 am:
My research and experience has been it is not the nitrofurazone that causes the increased proud flesh but the propylene glycol that is used in the ointment form, so that should be “no furacin ointment below the knee”, an adage I do follow. While the spray will not be effective at preventing proud flesh like the caustic powder, it also will not increase scaring like the powder does, see the articles on Skin: Diseases: Wound Care for more on this very subject.
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 17, 2002 - 11:01 am:
I believe there are leg wraps for "fly protection" - maybe they'd slow down the "fly stomp" effects.
Let us know what the farrier thinks.
Cheers.
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 6, 2002 - 5:56 pm:
Ok, I am back with an update.
The farrier agreed that Parus seemed to move straight. He saw about 5 inches between his front hoof and his opposite leg when he walked and trotted.
Interestingly, the farrier found him very under-slung in his heels and with too much angle for his upright pasterns. (We had noticed when he walks, he walks like an elk.) He did square his hind toes and will try to bring him back under himself in front. Parus was slightly positive to hoof testers on his LF toe.
And his shoes are aluminum called "new balance". Sorry they are not really extra wide on the toe, just more square.
Parus wears a donut on the hind and ballistic bellboots all the time. I have two sets so I can rotate and clean. He is turned out with front boots.
I have all of the sores healed except for one on the front leg. It gets close and then he opens it. I am going to start putting shipping boots on his front legs in the stall. I am wondering if he is wacking it when he gets up in the stall. He does lay down every night and likes to roll outside and in the stall once a day.
We just installed a fly spray system in the barn...spoiled horsies! 
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