|
|
Discussion on Fencing for outdoor arena
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
Pfdusty
|
Posted on Friday, Dec 22, 2006 - 3:51 pm:
We are in the process of fencing in our outdoor arena and are wondering what to use.
Wood fencing with 2x6, or 12" galvanized panels, if so the chain type or the pin type. Does any one have any experience? Yes, money is an issue but we are working horses that might not respect a fence (horse rescue). Of course another worry is to be safe should we fall or get bucked off. So, any input is appreciated.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 8:10 am:
Hmmm it sounds like you need a breaking pen rather than an arena but if I were going to build an arena for riding unbroke horses I would make it a 5 board 6 ft high fence. Your choice of materials really is going to depend on what is available locally but I prefer creosote over other types of pressure treatment because the horses do not like to chew it.
DrO
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 10:52 am:
I've a friend that has an arena made of vinyl fencing. She loves it because if a horse or she hits it, it "give" and causes less injury. However, it isn't as sturdy as wood or metal imo. I use pipe around my arena and have had good luck with hit. I'm not working with the type of horses you are working with, however. I sure hope you use a helmet!!
Dr. O's suggestion re: a breaking pen or round pen is good. Do you first work with them in a round pen, even under saddle? Then, ground work in the arena? Then riding in the arena? Or, do you have room for a round pen?
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 11:48 am:
I've seen both and I think I like the high wood one better. The one thing about the panels that is nice, you can move them. I use panels and move them quite often to make stalls or round pens. With board you are stuck where it is. If using panels, the pin ones are much nicer imo, the chain ones can be hard to get snug and can loosen up over time.
For the first time I have to disagree with Dr.O. considering the creosote. Where I had my last horse broke they used it and my horse and other horses had creosote all over their coats and manes, very hard to remove. If you aren't going to use it for turnout it would be o.k.
|
Member:
Pfdusty
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 12:59 pm:
Thank you for the advice, we do have a smaller round pen with pin latching panels to work in and it is where we start horses. And yes, we wear helmets. The horses to be worked in the arena are semi broke, but as we all know we can't control every move. My thought was if it is wood, then it will be much harder to rake footing back into the arena vs panels I can move and use equipment to rake it back in. The panels are round tubing (doesn't hurt as much)but if I use panels, I've read of horses getting stuck between panels where the pin latch was used, so I thought about the chain latch because it's closer together. Another thought, I keep reading about using panels that have less horizontal bars so a horse leg can be pulled out easier, but that would make it weaker.
I have a tendency to always think of the worst scenarios.
Once again, thank you for your input.
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 1:15 pm:
Moni, you and me both re: the worst scenarios!
They also make panels that butt up right next to each other and are attached by clamps. They are kind of hard to describe, but each end of the clamp wraps around the end pipes. There are a series of three or four clamps to tie the ends of the panels together. The clamps are held tight by a center bolt. These are a little bit (but not much) harder to take apart than the pin latch type. If you don't tighten the bolt up too hard, the panels do have some give and will bend at the joints if hit hard. I use these panels both for our arena and for our turn out pens and have been really happy with them. Ours came from Francisco Pipe in So. Calif., but I think a lot of different companies make them. They are available in several different heights and different size pipe.
|
Member:
Scooter
|
Posted on Saturday, Dec 23, 2006 - 2:31 pm:
I have seen different people run horse no climb fence or something similar around the pipe panels. If you keep it off the ground you could still rake etc. and not worry about legs and heads getting stuck. It surprisingly looks nice also.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 24, 2006 - 10:13 am:
Diane, though it does depend somewhat on the folks doing the process and how heavy the material is applied, this is only a problem when first put up. There is also a problem with skin irritation for the installers (run a search on creosote as we have discussed this before).
After being in the weather for a short while however, usually a season, the excess creosote rinses/evaporates off so staining becomes a minimal problem that eventually disappears completely. If I were raising white coated horses I might think twice and I would not use it or any rough cut lumber for a training pin as splinters would become a problem is such a small space but for fences and arenas its durability and resistance to horse chewing make the initial problems worth considering. Alcohol is the preferred method for removing creosote.
DrO
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 24, 2006 - 10:47 am:
DrO, the biggest problem with creosote imo is that it is illegal in many areas. We can't buy it here and couldn't buy it in N. Calif. or Reno, NV.
|
New Member:
Srfotog
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 24, 2006 - 1:05 pm:
What the heck is creosote? I never heard of it used w. horses. What about just pipe panels for round pen or arena? Are they too expensive? I need 20 to make a round pen and was wondering the best way to get them. Can one get them used? Am in Oregon near McMinnville.
|
Member:
Mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 24, 2006 - 1:55 pm:
Creosote is strong smelling, tar like stuff but more liquid than tar. Railroad ties are usually coated with it. It keeps wood from rotting and horses won't chew on it so it used to be popular to coat on fences and barns. However, it is my understanding that it has been found to be carcinogenic and it's use is now banned in many areas. You probably have to eat or drink large quantities of it to get cancer from it, as I know lots of people that have inhaled the fumes for a lot of years while painting fence posts and they're all o.k. still.
|
Member:
Sully
|
Posted on Sunday, Dec 24, 2006 - 2:18 pm:
Hello everyone,
Just wanted to add my experiences with a freak accident and creosote fences. My horse had been in a very large pasture with about 20 other horses for years. They used old creosote railroad ties for part of the fence up close to the barn. My horse was found facing into her pasture hung on the fence with only her front feet on the ground. We figured she must of been there for 4 to 6 hours. The creosote created a huge wound (thought I was going to lose her)eating into her skin in the area near her utter. Her back legs were almost twice the normal size and she could stand, but not walk. I know hanging there for so long a time created problems in it self, but the creosote had eaten into her skin creating a hole that just barely missed invading her intestines according to my vet. It took 3 to 4 months for this to heal and had to be washed out with ben solution. Its been many years now, so my memory is kind of foggy. I was able to ride her again, but her underline was forever changed. I think some of this might have happened with a regular wood fence, but the effect of creosote on the skin for so long a time is what took so long to heal. It also was some sort of freak accident and I have never figured out for sure how she ended up on the fence in the first place. My best guess is they were all running and having fun and during a buck another horse somehow got under her and gave her a boost that flung her over the fence. (she was facing into her own pasture). Horses get into some of the weird situations and I just wanted to let you know what could happen if they are forced into contact with creosote on their skin.
Respectfully,
Nancy
PS Merry Christmas Dr. O and Everyone else. God Bless!!
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 25, 2006 - 7:51 pm:
For those not close to a railroad track, creosote also was used for telephone poles for decades. It is the older dark poles as opposed to what is more commonly used now: the green shaded (copper napthate) poles. Creosote is a product from coal tar distillation and does contain products that are irritants, mutagens, and carcinogens when exposed to high levels or over prolonged periods. It should be handled carefully and not by pregnant folks. But we are talking about something to prevent the degradation of wood over decades and any of the substances we look at will have up sides and down sides.
Nancy, the small amount of creosote found on old railroad ties, would not be tissue toxic as you describe. If the horse were hung in the fence for at least 4 hours I would strongly suggest that trauma was the major cause of the wounds. You see similar wounds to what you describe on horses caught in other types of wood and wire fences as pressure alone is terribly injurious to tissue. Because of the large amount of trauma to the surrounding soft tissue the healing period for such wounds would be expected to be prolonged.
Sara is right it is getting harder and harder to find places licensed to treat lumber with creosote.
DrO
|
New Member:
Mitma
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 25, 2006 - 10:29 pm:
In anticipation of fencing my pasture soon I've reviewed most of the comments on this site regarding fencing (including Dr. O's article)... And, after reading about all of the freak accidents that people have reported, I'm not sure I can sleep tonight!!! Does anyone have any experience with, or opinions of, CENTAUR HTP fencing??? It is a 5 inch "board" composed of three ? 12 1/2 gauge high tensile wires encased in a polymer material. It is installed in a post and rail manner, usually with three "boards" at a height of ?48". It is supposed to be "flexible" and reports a breaking strength of 4,050 pounds per rail! I have a 2 and 1/2 yo BLM mustang mare and another 9 yo "rescue" type mare (only somewhat halter trained) on the way... (right now, my mustang is contained in a small coral/round pen combo made of 6 ft. high steel panals. Any comments would be welcomed! Thanks and Merry Christmas!
|
Member:
Annes
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 26, 2006 - 12:14 pm:
I have the creosote 4 board fences and agree that after the 1st season the excess creosote is worn off. My fences have faded a lot over the years but my husband just added 120 feet of new fence behind the barn 2 weeks ago. I went out the next day to find that my buckskin gelding looked like a zebra on his face from grazing under the fence. I am glad to hear that alcohol will remove it.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 26, 2006 - 5:34 pm:
Martha,
Though it often looks to the contrary our purpose here is not to elevate fencing to as night-marish subject, just the opposite. For all the horrors you hear concerning any one type fencing remember there are horses out there getting along fine in two strands of barb wire, though not recommended. Any sturdy well constructed, easily visible fence has a excellent possibility of not causing harm to your horse. Sweet Dreams.
DrO
|
|
|
