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  Discussion on Black Oil Sunflower Seeds and increase in osteoarthritis
Author Message
Member:
Fahren

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 10:23 am:

On another forum I herd of feeding BOSS, I did research on this site and started feeding them to my horses. I was reading a unconnected post and followed a link to an article about feeding dressage horses. In the article I found this paragraph:

"Long chain fatty acids are precursors of “local hormones” called thromboxanes, prostaglandins and leukotrienes. The Omega-6 fatty acids end products are found in pathways that increase the inflammatory response, increase osteoarthritis, decrease bone formation and increase allergic response. The Omega-3 fatty acids lead to pathways that have virtually the exact opposite effects. Omega-6 fatty acids are not found naturally in forage, but they are found in vegetable oils.
High in Omega 6: corn, safflower and sunflower oils"

Taken from: Feeding the Dressage Horse for Maximal Performance
Friday, December 2, 2004
By Joe Pagan, PhD

My question is though not specifically talking about BOSS in the article they have the same fat source as sunflower oil? Also, am I antagonizing my horses current arthritis issues in his hock by feeding this type of fat? I live in chilly VT and having a solid dry fat source is handy in the winter, and BOSS are easily accessible.
Thanks,
Zoe}}
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 11:09 am:

According to www.arthritis.org , Omega 6 oils break down in our bodies (therefore I assume horses' bodies also) into arachidonic acid which fuels agents that contribute to inflamation. And, Omega 6 oils are found in most vegitable and cooking oils except Canola and Olive oils, I believe.

The best source of oil and Omega 6 for those with arthritis is fish oils, like cod liver oil. People on cod liver oil have been able to cut their NASAID use down up to 50% or even better. It's especially good for Rhumatoid arthritis and Raynoid's desease. Also very good are Evening Primrose oil and Borage Oil, but they are very expensive, even for people running over $100/mo.

I would assume that what is true for people would be true for horses, but am not sure. By chance today's arthritis email news letter led to the site re: oils & supplements.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 11:11 am:

Zoe, did the article you read mention soy oil? I'm wondering where it lies in regard to Omega 3 and 6? I've always thought it was more healthy, but am not sure and it's what I've been using on my guys.
Member:
Fahren

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 11:27 am:

The link to the article I read:

https://www.germandressage.com/conventionnotes2004/equinenutrition.html

So if omega six is bad for arthritis, you would not need to feed it at all? It would be better to feed an omega 3?
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 12:22 pm:

From what I've read I'd gather you should stay away from Omega 6 as much as possible.

I can let you know in a few months how much difference it makes (for people). I have arthritis and plan to start taking fish oil capsules and stay away from Omega 6 oils.

It gets confusing, esp. regarding horses and you read about all kinds of oils being used to supplement their diets with no mention of how different oils might affect things like joint problems.
Member:
Srfotog

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 12:39 pm:

Sometimes I think the care of horses resembles the care of humans. It seems to me that doctors are pretty much using voodoo a lot of the time. There are so many opinions on everything that have 180 degree views from the one just before it from another doctor in the medical field as well. How does one pick one and stick with it? I am confused by a lot of the posts regarding the barefoot issue and now the oils issue. I don't think a horse will eat cod liver oil, would he/she? Now I'm wondering if corn oil is useless!
Member:
Gwen

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 12:50 pm:

I think Dr. Valentine refers to the topic of oils contributing to inflammation. From MY understanding, she says that there is not any solid research connecting the two. I may have misunderstood, but if you go onto ruralheritage.com you may find answers there.
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 27, 2006 - 4:46 pm:

Susan...I know what you mean!! Maybe it's just that equine nutrition is actually a relatively new field; and when you think about it, so is human nutrition when it comes to foods that help/hinder different conditions. There is so much being learned so fast, and there are always people "jumping on the band wagon" trying to take advantage of the latest trends to make a buck. It's hard to weed out fact from fiction!

Gwen, like I said, I don't know about oils and horse conditions, but there has been solid medical research regarding oils and human conditions and it seems to me that since people and horses are both mammals, that some things would carry through from one to the other. However, I know the digestive systems are very different, as are the body's needs...so...

I do know that corn oil is very good at helping to put on weight and it helps to give the horse's coat shine...tho' I think any oil would.
Member:
Srfotog

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 12:50 am:

Sara, Here's another one. I heard that vinegar is good for inflammation in people. And now I am going to take cod liver oil capsules! Is vinegar good for horses? How much vinegar for a 25 gallon tub to help get rid of sulfate smell? I only give corn oil to my guys when it's really cold. The old one doesn't really like it. He HAS started to eat senior, though, so that's a relief.
Member:
Frances

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 5:45 am:

Apple cider vinegar has been given to horses traditionally for arthritis, and some believe it helps to prevent the formation of enteroliths in the intestines. I remember asking DrO once about it, and he felt that it was unwise to feed it to a species such as the horse which is so prone to gastric ulcers. As far as the intestinal stones were concerned, he said it was unlikely that the vinegar would reach the intestines, as the stomach would neutralise it.

So I crossed vinegar off my list right away!
Member:
Frances

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 6:03 am:

I'll be interested to hear DrO's take on the Omega 6/Omega 3 issue, and which classification olive oil comes under.
Member:
Frances

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 6:22 am:

Here I am again! According to Wikipedia, olive oil falls into the Omega 6 camp with a ratio of 13:1 (Omega 6 to 3).
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 8:00 am:

We address this issue of the dietary need of the essential fatty acids in the article associated with this forum. There is no good research to suggest the supplementation of omega-3 or worrying about an excess amount of omega-6 in a horses diet is going to make much difference in the health of the horse. There is weak support, as presented in the article, that omega-3's may benefit chronic allergic inflammatory conditions.

There are important differences in the dietary needs for essential fatty acids when horses are compared with humans. Also there are very different exposures to fats in the regular diet, and important to remember that horses do not suffer from rheumatoid arthritis (there may have been one case where it was suspected). Put it all together and there is little to worry about concerning this question at this time.
DrO
Member:
Fahren

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 9:45 am:

Thank you everyone for the good discussion about oil and arthritis. Thank you Dr. O. I gather it is ok to feed the BOSS as a cold weather fat source.
Zoe
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Dec 28, 2006 - 2:13 pm:

Absolutely, but you might want to check how much bang you get for the buck. It may be an expensive source of energy. While researching the answers I gave above I found some fascinating facts about EFAcids that I have been following up. I will be editing this information into the article on fats. These backup the already made suggestions but explain some of the workings. I should have the edit done by tomorrow or Monday at the latest. I will post when I get it up.
DrO
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Dec 29, 2006 - 6:14 am:

Hi LL, one correction to the vinegar post above, it is not that the stomach neutralizes the acetic acid (vinegar) before it reaches the stone. But it is rapidly absorbed in the small intestines and as a result it never makes it to the enterolith in the large bowel. The body then burns these small organic acids (really a one carbon fatty acid) as a energy source.
DrO
Member:
Frances

Posted on Friday, Dec 29, 2006 - 7:52 am:

Thanks for the correction DrO.
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