|
|
Discussion on Predators and Predator Management
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
tasia
|
Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 9:55 am:
Joanne, while reading your post about predators I was wondering which mountainous western state you you lived in. When you said New Jersey I was floored!
Mountain lions? What was State Fish and Game thinking? I am for reintroducing some species to their original habitat, but mountain lions in New Jersey? I have just recently been reading about the bears in New Jersey (another surprise) and I knew coyotes were all over the eastern seaboard. You must be on edge most of the time.
Horses around here really have no natural predators (rural Montgomery Cnty, MD.) (yet) Coyotes moved in several years ago, but so far they have only been in the lower county. Sometimes lone bears wander down from the mountains, but they are quickly relocated. There have been mountain lion sightings, but nothing substantiated. Occasionally, farmers have found slaughtered livestock, mostly in the winter, but there is no proof of what did the deed.
So, what is the answer to control these predators and protect livestock? The type of fencing, dogs that guard livestock? Keeping horses in at night?
|
Member:
hwood
|
Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 1:06 pm:
Historically, from what I know of American agriculture, donkeys and mules have often been used to guard herds of prey animals. Since moving out west 4 years ago and talking with many cattlemen and farmers, I have heard that donkeys and mules are still used by many folks who raise cattle, sheep, and goats. (Not sure about llamas and alpacas, but I know their numbers have increased greatly here in the States over the past several years.) We have 4 donkeys and mules at three of the surrounding farms. They make quite a ruckus, and we can always tell when it is feeding time for any of our neighbors. Sometimes, in the dark of night, I hear a donkey braying "to beat the band," and since we have LOTS of coyotes around us, I wonder if the donkey is doing his duty as security guard for his farm. If you live in a fairly populated area, owning a donkey may not be looked upon with favor by some light-sleeping neighbors.
|
Member:
amara
|
Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 3:25 pm:
when i lived in CT we had a HUGE coyote problem..they were so bad that they were trapping people in their cars... black bears were common, as we abutted a huge state forest....whenever i trail rode i was always on the alert for scat and claw marks on the trees... they occasionally showed up on our property...
coyotes in general are "scaredy cats" and even in groups wont go up against animals bigger than them...if you found claw marks on your mare it is most likely from a mountain lion.. i've always left my full size horses outside all the time without ever any worry, tho i would definately be concerned about a mini....
since i've moved to texas have also come across a definite mountain lion problem... my rhodesian ridgeback tangled with one a few years back... (what would i expect from a lion hunter!)
my old sheppard dog was raised with coyotes and coy dogs, so i never worried about leaving her out at night when the coyotes were around.. she was more than a match for any couple coyotes...(as she well proved more than once!)... my dogs now are entirely domestic, so i worry about them loose at night...had a pack of coyotes literally on my doorstep the other night.. fortunately my cat was on the roof... unfortunately my gun is with my boss as she has a bit of an alligator problem...(yes, really!)
i love wildlife, really, but sometimes it gets ridiculous!
|
Member:
zarr
|
Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 6:55 pm:
LLamas are get for scaring off predators like coyotes and such seems things are scared of the alarm call.We have a lot of coyotes have chased many away but the big chuckle has come at nite they come a howling on the hill and our Dobe goes out and howls back! Now she is either very good or so off key they can't stand it and leave! Mt. lions have been few and far between. The worst problem here are packs of dogs! They killed 3 minis last week it was horrible! Cindy
|
Member:
lzieman
|
Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 9:36 pm:
I have heard that llamas and donkeys are good "watch dogs". How they get along with horses and cows--are they friends, or do they ignore each other? I have read though that llamas really shouldn't be used to truly protect other animals, because they are basically themselves defenseless, and sometimes fall prey to packs of dogs and the like.
I think Pyranees (sp?) dogs are really good coyote chasers, and because of their size, I don't think the coyotes fight back very often. Then again, my red heeler chases coyotes too, but I wish he wouldn't! I just envision him being lured into a pack.
Although with Bears and Mountain Lions, I think it's mostly a matter of having luck, because they don't just come out at night, and I don't see them being afraid of much. I can't imagine any kind of fencing will keep them out--other than maybe a tall one with a strand of electric over the top?
At least if it's a true predator, I think it's easier to take--mother nature, and the circle of life. Packs of dogs, or rogue Pitt Bulls on the other hand seems so senseless.
|
Member:
jojo15
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 2:25 am:
The best defense is to put off an offense, too. And i have learned from some serious goat breeders that a good donkey and good LGD (pyrenees/anatolians, etc) will do that. The donkey is a the offense animal and the pyrenees is the one that will defend the herd. Together the two are supposedly awesome. The donkey will call the alert go after the offending animal. the LGD will take the herd to safety. Of course, a couple of LGD's will also do what the donk does too. One goes off to fight while the other grabs the herd and moves it to safety. Only going to fight if needed.
I hear such great stories about these episodes. It truly makes you wonder if the animals all talk to each other.
The LGD's are truly left to live with the animals. and the are not to be domesticated. They are not your animal anymore, they are the herds. And they learn their job. If i ever move to an area that needs them, this is what i would do... a donk and a few LGD's...
Goats are a serious threat since they like a foal or yearling can't really fight back like a full grown horse could..
|
Member:
jmarie
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 8:45 am:
Diane, I have to say that the predator problem here is relatively new and growing rapidly. It's a never-ending source of aggravation as the animal rights activists (of which I an usually one, but not in this situation) fight claw and fang to protect the predators from us farmers. Apparently domestic animals don't have rights.  Our family of red foxes took out a number of the neighbor's sheep before we finally reduced them to one scraggly leftover who likes to sleep in my bedding pile in the barn if we let him.
When I moved to this part of the state--surrounded by lots of open space and state and federal property--we never saw any of this. Then there was a change in PA hunting seasons (they reinstituted their bear hunt) and we actually saw the bears swimming and hiking across the river toward our greener pastures. Now we're surrounded by two states with bear seasons, and we have had just one, two years ago, in the past 20 years, so the bears are breeding like mad and merrily grabbing our small and large livestock while the B.E.A.R. group members assault hunters and lock themselves in the bear traps in protest. Very interesting situation, but not funny.
Oddly, the rights folks don't live here in the twigs. They don't have livestock. They are convinced if we'll just lock up our garbage the (reputed) 3800 bears will go away. We do lock up our garbage. The 3800 bears eat anything that sits still long enough.
I took this shot out my car window at the end of my street in an open area along the road when I was on my way to the post office. There were actually five bears--mom, big ol' daddy, and three cubs--hanging out there for several days. This is where the "rails-to-trails" riding trail runs.
The big male in my other post wasn't really a hazard. Anything that size doesn't hunt domestic animals. They kill a few deer and are done. Dominant males are generally lazy, focused mainly on breeding, and can cover a territory of up to 50 square miles. It's the youngsters--2-yo's like these in the pics--just sent packing my mama who do the damage.
|
Member:
corinne
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 9:44 am:
Joanne...I can't wait to move back home, but although the wild life are nice, perhaps we will pick a county that doesn't have so much of it as we want to bring my horse home and get one for my husband. That will be in a few years however as my husband had to finish his AF career. Erika..your out that way too if I recall...I love it out where you live, and Joanne your farm (from the link on your profile) looks so lovely as well! You guys are making this Jersey girl miss home....see....not every place in NJ looks like Newark Airport, I can have my space and get some land and still be an hours drive from the parents, siblings and my nephew. Wonderful pics by the way!
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 4:21 pm:
You're right Corinne, I just read where Joanne's bear picture was taken and the "rails to trails" Paulinskill Trail cuts right through my property.
We're probably neighbors, Joanne. I see the bears all the time, but so far no problems. Even came nose to nose with one while weeding the veggie garden, but he seemed as startled as I was when we both looked up at the same time. I'm not sure who ran away faster!
I do see occasional coyotes, lots of foxes; and a visitor swears he saw a bobcat fishing in my koi pond once (not so sure about that sighting).
They still all run away when confronted--except for one semi-tame fox that tangled with my Golden Retriever a couple of years ago. I thought she was fighting a bear from all the noise, but I ran out to see a large red fox giving as good as he got! He took off when he saw me. Never came up to the porch again.
|
Member:
adriaa
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 7:53 pm:
Would Black Bears attack horses? I know they have attacked humans, but not for food... For some other reason (like we are in their territory), or one that is sick, rabid or something. They are foragers, berries, bird feeders, garbage, sweet stuff, not really predators. At least that's what I always thought.
|
Member:
lzieman
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 8:28 pm:
You had me curious Adria, so I did a quick google search. They are both plant and meat eaters. They eat the young of deer, moose, and elk. So an adult horse is probably unlikely, unless sick maybe. A mini certainly sounds like fair game.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 11:20 pm:
I have been told that black bears will hunt humans as well as any other animal it thinks it has a chance of killing, although it prefers to get "easy pickings." They don't "bluff" like a Brown Bear (Grizzly) and won't stop chasing when you are out of their territory. Luckily, they are much smaller than grizzlies and seem happy raiding garbage cans when they can. Where we are they kill sheep and calves readily. I haven't known of a horse or human getting killed.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 7:33 am:
We've got black bears, coyotes, wolves, bobcats, and many rumors of mountain lions. (Upper MI)
I've seen black bears many times while riding, walking and biking and I don't worry too much about them. Of course we have a zillion white tail deer up here too, so I think they are well fed.
I find the coyotes beautiful and love hearing their "yapping and howling", unless I am out riding alone at dusk!! It is errie sounding, but I am not actually afraid of being attacked.
We have heard stories of people out jogging/hiking who felt they were being stalked by wolves running with them, but again, no attacks. I think they are beautiful and wish I'd see one but so far only saw the tracks. Have seen the rest from time to time, including the mountain lion many years ago! That one I don't care to see again!
And I don't wish to meet a moose either, don't trust them at all. They are not meat eaters of course, but there are stories of them going after just about anything.
The worst experience we had with black bears was a momma bear trying to move 3 cubs from one side of the road to the other. I have never heard such a "bawling" sound in my life as those babies crying! She would move one, and leave it, then it would start up. She went to get the other 2, half carrying one, trying to urge the other to come with. Then the one left behind starting in with the noise! Man, I think our family was more relieved than the momma bear was when she got them safely moved back into the cover of the trees!!
My husband says we can loose a cat or our house dog to the coyotes, wolves or bald eagles. We've got friends who found just some fur left from a cat. That was the eagle taking the cat for lunch. We've had as many as 4 at one time sitting in the trees along the pasture watching for rodents. I've rode right under them also, they didn't fly away, so beautiful....wish I could get a picture of one!
We don't hear the coyotes lately, I am told that means the wolves have moved in. We did loose our big dog before Christmas, makes me wonder what happened to him. Probably a hunter shot him. Or maybe wolves got him.
|
Member:
adriaa
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 10:37 am:
Interesting, Lisa. I'm sure that after the easy pickins' are gone they get desperate and will attack anything they can as Sara mentioned. A few years back a Black Bear went right up to someone's house in the Catskills and took a baby right out of a stroller, with people watching!
We have coyotes and bears, I have only seen a bear once, but one regularly raids my mother's bird feeder. The coyotes I hear but really don't see either. I'm sure we have Bobcats but have never seen one. I do have a serial chicken killing hawk though!
Every year, same time, same place, same MO. Got one yesterday, it's pretty gruesome and I have a hard time with it, they are pets. One of my bantams just disappeared one day and I think she was taken by the hawk.
I think packs of domestic dogs "gone bad" are probably the worst. They kill for thrill it seems, not for existence. A coyote may take on one animal, dogs seem to just wreak havoc.
Sorry about your dog Angie, I have lost 2 cats, but don't know what happened to them.
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 10:40 am:
Hi all,
We live in a neighborhood that has both mountain lions and black bears. There are sightings reported occasionally, usually near the creek that runs through the greenbelt in the center of the development.
I have been lucky - have not seen a bear or mountain lion while riding. However, some of my friends have. As far as harming horses - there has been an incident in a nearby neighborhood where a mountain lion so spooked the horses that they injured themselves, trying to get away.
I would worry about young foals and minis, for sure.
The bears of course are not seen during the winter, more often in the fall, when the wild plums and chokecherries are ripe. The mountain lions are active year round. We have a large deer population, which of course attracts the mountain lions.
Lilo
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 11:51 am:
Lilo,
I am having trouble accepting the words neighborhood, black bears and mountain lions in the same sentence. OMG
After reading through this thread, not only have I moved the donkey next to the minis pen, but I have TOTALLY stopped the Tylenol PM, so I can hear the donkey serenade if he needs to do his job and warn me!
My niece has been having a similar problem with hawks stealing the chickens, ducks, cats and even piglets. Her laundry room is in the back of the house, and she emailed me a picture of the laundry room to show me what Keith got her for Valentine's Day. It was bad enough that I thought it was the new washer/dryer and made a mental note to talk to him about major appliances for Valentine's Day. Silly me, it was the gun rack over the dryer..'cause, hey, nothin' says lovin' like a gun rack....now she can lock n' load quickly and scare off her winged predators!
|
Member:
jmarie
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 2:05 pm:
Lilo, don't be fooled. Bears ARE seen in the winter. The winter-long hibernation is a misperception. They wake up at least once to feed, and if there's nothing easy nearby, they'll roam and hunt. The most dangerous time is late fall. They're stocking up fat for the winter, and they stop eating berries (which are basically gone by then anyway) and head for the meat.
Mountain lions worry me the most because they are daylight hunters, will hunt ANYTHING, including humans, and can stalk something for miles without tiring. By the time you know he's there, you're dinner.
Here's a fun factoid about coyotes. They'll wander around in pairs, covering the same path all summer long, walking right past flocks of wild turkeys--their main food source in this area--until the turkeys decide they're just part of the landscape and stop noticing them. The first time there's a freezing rain, the turkeys' wings become too heavy so they can't escape, and BINGO! You'll hear the squawking as the pair of coyotes decimates the flock and drags off the kill.
Another one: Coyotes in the East are dog cross-breeds, so they are larger and heavier than those that live out West. The ones we have are the size and heft of a German Shepard.
Ah, the grandeur of Nature!
|
Member:
boomer
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 2:26 pm:
We have mid size Coyotes in Eastern Washington. They often pack up on family pets and small goats. Wild dogs are the real problem, not only are they larger but they are less afraid of humans. We have Cougars and Bear as well but they mainly hunt the deer. We have wild turkeys, pheasant and quail the coyotes hunt too.
|
Member:
lilo
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 3:38 pm:
Hi all,
Thanks for the warning about bears in the winter.
I feel lucky that the greenbelt behind my house is not heavily wooded. We do have foxes and coyotes also.
I saw a mountain lion only once, from my car. It was on a neighbors property, strolling between the barn and the house. I called the neighbors, and they confirmed from the tracks that it was a mountain lion. We have had the occasional deer killed on someone's property, and once a dog. The poor thing was on a chain and could not get away.
This was several years ago - have not heard anything like that lately.
That said, about three lots in the neighborhood (consists of about 170 5 acre lots) do have minis along with full-size horses. So far so good.
When new neighbors move in they are handed pamphlets about living with the wildlife and what to do when encountering mountain lions or bears.
Lilo
P.S. We used to live in New Jersey in the 70's. I am amazed about how much wildlife there is.
|
Member:
jgordo03
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 4:58 pm:
We have Mountain Lions, coyotes, and Bobcats. Some bears a little further south. I do run electric rope along the top and bottom of my fences, so this may be keeping them out. I keep the my dogs in at night during the winter and I see coyotes cutting across my yard when it starts getting light outside in the morning, they get really bold when the Cattle dogs aren't around.
|
Member:
kthorse
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 5:55 pm:
I am in NJ also in NJ near Warwick NY. My horse wears a giant cow bell. So loud I cant talk to other riders so I use it when we are on our own. Once when I did not wear it I saw my first bear, too scary. Ive seen coyotes once. I have heard that a few mountain lions have been spotted. I wonder if the bell would scare them off like the bell seems to for bears (and hunters) . I hope so. Scares me thinking they are out there. Who knows though maybe its rumors.
|
Member:
jmarie
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 8:41 am:
Katrina, I laughed when I pictured your horse with the cow bell. I used to use a strip of sleigh bells for the same reason. I'd be a little leery, though, of attracting the attention of a mountain lion who thought he was tracking a cow!  You must be fairly close to me, by the way. I'm about 40 minutes from Warwick.
Corinne, I must've missed your post last time through. I'd love to tell you that there are safer counties than Sussex in NJ, but it's not true. The bears have spread throughout the state, even being seen walking the streets of Trenton, which seems ironic as the Powers That Be keep saying we have no bears but can probably see them out their office windows, and Princeton, which was, I thought, closed to wildlife earning less than $250,000/year. You could try Atlantic County or the Newark area. Until they arm themselves and learn to gamble, the predators will probably stay away from the high crime areas.  Can't you just picture a bunch of gang bangers jumping a poor, unsuspecting bear in the Ironbound? Somebody would be sporting a furry do-rag before the night was out!
|
Member:
amara
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 11:41 am:
my worst scare with wildlife had nothing to do with the aforementioned predators... i woke up one morning to find a TARANTULA in my sink!... and having SEVERE arachnophobia, i did not handle it very well.. had to call my best friend and make her drive 20 minutes to my house to kill the darn thing....
with my arachnophobia as bad as it is i'd much rather see a mountain lion then a tarantula any day!...
in almost moved back to the northeast-no wild tarantulas there!
|
Member:
jgordo03
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 12:56 pm:
Oh Melissa, What a terrible thing to have happen. We don't have Tarantula's here but I did have to go save my sister-in-law once from a brown spider. She was on top of her dryer for an hour before I could get there. Lucky for her she had a phone in the laundry room!
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 2:44 pm:
I don't know Melissa, some tarantula's are kind of pretty, and they seldom bite; most are pretty docile. I think I'd take them over a mtn. lion!
I's suggest that those of you with lions and bears buy a large can of pepper spray...the kind that shoots 20'. Here in Utah we can get it at Walmar; I don't know about other areas. Pepper spray is the one thing that will stop either a bear or a lion. Even a bullet won't necessarily stop an attack, unless you are a good enough shot to kill the animal instantly.
|
Member:
zarr
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 5:38 pm:
Melissa, hate spiders it has taken long time to get to the point of not doing the" in-place screaming war dance" and just smack- um. We have the big ones but also many black widows! Have learned how to spot their webs from far away and have put cheap cans of hairspray in several places it works really well! Also got chickens that helped at the barn as one widow down there was the size of a fifty cent piece ! Cindy
|
Member:
amara
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 8:24 pm:
i can kill the little ones all right, but anything larger than a mayonnaise top is pretty darn scary.. i dont care how beautiful, or that they "seldom bite" (*LOL*).
no black widows at my house, but lots at my bosses, and i'm there quite a bit..
yep, give me a mountain lion ANYDAY!! *LOL*
|
Member:
amara
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 8:37 pm:
oh, and as far as pepper spray.. walmart doesnt carry it in all states, but usually it can be found at either auto stores or physical fitness type stores.. the kind that carries outdoor equipment...
if possible, go online and buy the polce version of 10%OCSpray....trust me, much more painful and effective than the regular stuff... in some places you can only get it thru authorized dealers, so find a cop friend and have him get it for you...
if you ever have to use it be VERY careful of how you aim... its effects are just as potent on the defender as the attacker, or the horse if you are riding...while i dont suggest you intentionally spray yourself with it before you ever have to really use it, you should set up a test area so that you know exactly what it is like, incase you get an accidental dose...
anyone who wants to see some real torture i can send them a video of my police academy class getting OC Sprayed.....oh.. this is bringing back painful memories...
|
Member:
jerre
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 12:17 am:
I live in a state forest in W. Washington state. There are cougars, although I've never seen one, and black bears, ditto. We have had bobcat 10 feet from the back door. Our biggest predator is raccoons, who decimate our chickens at every chance.
Here's the bear warning posted in local feed stores and tack shops:
Attention trail riders! Bears have been seen on many horse trails. Black bears will usually run at the sight of mounted horses; grizzlies may stand and challenge. Riders are advised to put bells on their horses so that bears can hear and move away. Carry pepper spray in case of a confrontation.
Here's how to tell the difference if you see bear sign.
Black bears eat berries and vegetation.
Their scat is full of seeds and fiber.
Grizzlies eat berries, vegetation and anything else that they find. Their scat is full of bells and smells like pepper spray!
Jerre
p.s. we really don't have grizzlies here!
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 12:44 am:
Melissa, excellent advice.
Jerre,
When camping in Alaska we worried about bears and took all the recommended precautions. Although we saw a lot of bears, our only "attack" was by a mouse or something that ate my favorite pair of socks!
|
New Member:
nj52
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 12:19 pm:
I'm usually a benchwarmer on this site, but this discussion on predators hit a sore spot with me. I live in southern NJ & we have been experiencing horse killings by the HUMAN predator. Last year an Arab was killed by a hunter who was shooting too close to a farm. Last month a 6 yo AQH was shot with 2 arrows & killed while grazing in a pasture. The killers were a group of males from an urban county who took a drive into the country to "kill something." I've had my own experience with the Human Predator when I woke from a sound sleep at 4:00am to the sound of automatic gunfire and my horses stampeding in the paddock. I went outside to find a truck driving through my back field which is about 300 feet from the paddock & separated by a line of trees, so I was unable to ID the vehicle. Poachers are becoming a very big problem, and even though my neighbors keep watch on each other's farms, the poachers get more brazen. The State Police & Game Officers were notified, but can do nothing without positive ID. So there's the hitch. Who's going to approach or chase a vehicle who occupants are firing automatic weapons???
|
Member:
lzieman
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 12:56 pm:
Dianne, it's too bad we can't feed idiots like those to the bears and mountain lions (and bobcats, cougars, coyotes, chicken hawks, raccoons, spiders, foxes...)!
In an earlier post, I mentioned that I read that black bears do eat meat. I should clarify, that it also said that they prefer vegetation, but when there isn't enough, such as in the very early spring or if they wake up for a snack during hibernation, that is when they tend to hunt. At least they're not a constant threat.
|
Member:
mcbizz
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 12:59 pm:
Dianne, I can certainly understand your despair over incidents such as those you have described. I would be a nervous wreck.
We have human predators here in Nevada also, those who object to the wild horses and shoot them, either killing them or leaving them to suffer and die. Some are occasionally arrested and prosecuted, other times they are never traced.
The incident in last week's news about the two Atlanta teenagers who were arrested for baking a puppy alive in an oven was one of the most disturbing things I have heard of in a long, long time...animal predators are only trying to find food; I can deal with that. The human predator that kills and tortures an animal for the "thrill" of it is entirely another matter and totally horrifies and enrages me.
|
Member:
jmarie
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 1:13 pm:
Dianne, I've been there. One of my horses was peppered with bird shot--barely missed his eye!--the first year we were here. The hunter was on a neighbor's property. I was so angry I went barreling into the woods shouting and cussing up a storm. Hunter disappeared, but I later found a beheaded deer in my back field. That guy got greedy and was caught and prosecuted, but the sentence was overturned on a technicality.
Now, ten years down the road, I have the state police on speed dial. They come in a heartbeat and have no qualms about tracking loose hunters in the woods. As a result, we have very few these days.
I'm sorry to hear that you're in the area where that awful shooting took place. Free-range idiots are taking over the land!
|
Member:
zarr
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 2:17 pm:
My girlfriend lives down the road right on the river and her stories are amazing as there is an open hunting area across the river! Her house has been hit with shot several times. Her dog once! She has gone out and yelled at them and been flipped off everytime! We have had horses killed in their pastures here also I've always sworn if I saw them or found them later they had better RUN! I have a 243 in the closet for coyotes(4 legged) but would not think twice of shooting at the 2 legged kind! Cindy
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 2:36 pm:
While in Calif. I looked up from barn chores to see a bow hunter in camo marching across my fenced in fields. I went yelling and screaming after him and he was totally unfazed until my husband came up and said he'd called the sheriff. Then the guy said he was following a deer, apologized and left.
Here in UT we painted the tops of all our fence posts along the road,and put up "no tresspassing" signs, which makes us seem really unfriendly; but when we first moved here we had pheasants, deer, doves and ducks and and occasional antelope. The neighbors kids would march the ditch banks and shoot at anything that moved. I was scared to death someone would shoot one of the horses! Finally, that has stopped. But the prevailing attitude in this area is shoot anything that moves! Our pheasants haven't returned, but we do have doves and deer again and our fox.
Another worry as far as the dogs go, is the local sheep men. One of our dogs was shot while on our property!! Someone had turned their sheep out on our land without our even knowing about it! Then, when our dog was making his daily rounds, they shot him, even though he wasn't even near the sheep. Luckily I heard the shot, got a feeling, and went off in the direction of the sound screaming as loud as I could. Lonnie got to the dog first, just as the sheepmen were approaching to finish off the dog. This was on a Thanksgiving morning. Luckily it was buckshot, (but from two double barrelled shot guns) and we were able to find a vet that would see the dog. I would be the first to protect my animals or livestock; but there just seems to be a lack of any common sense around when it comes to guns.
And, although I don't hunt, it's not that I'm opposed to hunting, it's the manner that some people have. It seems like having a gun in their hands just alters the brains of some people...or maybe they didn't have much brain to start with!
|
Member:
zarr
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 3:20 pm:
I think the latter might be true altho my husband hunts. The 1st time he came home with Bambi so proud of his hunt he almost died and after a prolonged period of no ****** he rethought his priorites. Sara we have much of the same wildlife here and our pheasants were the first to go?? I miss them so much. As I said earlier the packs of dogs are the ones I truly fear as they have no fear of me and the irresponsibility of man is once again the glaring problem! Cindy
|
Member:
tasia
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 3:33 pm:
Dianne V, human predators are a big problem in my area (as are wandering Pit Bulls that no one seems to own.) Several years ago a pregnant thoroughbred mare in the next county was shot and killed as she grazed. She was insured, but that doesn't make up for the loss of two horses. The state police didn't do anything because they knew the kids who did it would not be able to keep quiet about it. Sure enough, they ran their mouths at school, and a student who heard them went to the police. They were punished, but unfortunately, that sort of thing was not a felony in Maryland then. It is now.
Last week, someone slaughtered an ewe that was in a nursing pen with her 5-day-old lamb. Whoever did it took the ewe and the lamb out of the pen, killed and mutilated the ewe, and left the lamb to freeze in the pasture. Fortunately, the farmer found her and is bottle raising her. Any livestock is fair game for these brainless idiots.
Carolyn, I read the story about the puppy. It made me sick. I do not understand that kind of sick thinking (if, in fact, any thinking is involved). Even if it is not a felony in the state where it takes place, people who do that sort of thing should be dealt with swiftly and harshly. Just last week, a man in PG County was sentenced to nearly a year in prison for killing a kitten.
Sara, I believe you are right when you say guns seem to alter the brains of some people. Around here I think brains are being bred OUT of some human bloodlines. I have a trespassing problem on my property, but most of it happens when I am at work. I find out about it when I walk the property and find new shotgun shells that have been ejected from someone's shotgun, deer body parts, and ATV tracks through my property. There is very little chance of catching them.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 4:52 pm:
Brains being bred out of some blood lines?! O my gosh, that is a good one!!!!
And yes, when it comes to anything that gives those kind a feeling of power, look out! It scares the heck out of me when you realize the parents of kids like those mentioned above are worst than the kids. Of course if the media would quit giving so much attention to the gloom and doom and "it's the most horrible thing that happened"; and instead focus on the good in life...
|
Member:
tasia
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 5:39 pm:
I believe the media coverage gives a lot of attention to the negative, and the attention is probably what these sick people want. But, on the other hand, it makes livestock owners aware of what can happen so that they can take steps either to prevent this sort of thing, or install systems (electronic or four-legged)to alert them that something is wrong.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 8:27 pm:
I'm not an anti-gun person; we have guns (although we don't hunt.) There are times when I think a gun is prudent for protection. But, they surely do seem to affect some people...usually young men who don't have any self esteem. Look at what just happend in Salt Lake City! A bit of the topic...but what a horrible, horrible thing to happen. What could possibly cause a young man (age 20, from Bosnia) to do such a thing! It is totally beyond my comprehension. What could possible cause someone to hate humanity so much? I actually have more understanding of what would cause a person to be cruel to an animal because I've dealt with kids that had that tendency...it goes along with the the total sociopathic behavior that some kids develop. Get a good physcology book and read up on it. You'll wind up pretty frightened for a lot of kids you probably have met and for their future and society's future. Our society has raised a lot of kids that have absolutely no concience, no sense of right and wrong as it pertains to them. Only others can do wrong. Pretty scary.
As to dogs...we too have roving dogs. We don't have any small livestock, but our neighbors have lost several chickens and previous neighbors lost sheep to loose dogs. Get two or more roaming dogs together and you have problems. As in many areas our locak sheriffs and animal control are understaffed and over worked and unable to keep up with the problem. It's legal to shoot them and a lot of people do; which make me very nervous about my totally harmless two dogs, one very elderly...esp. considering the one that was shot on our own property!
Like others here have said, I can deal with the local wildlife; I take pleasure in their visits even if they are predators. It's nice to know they are out there. I take precautions so I won't loose an animal or be injured myself. I understand their need to hunt. It's the two leggeds I worry about, including the ones that dont take proper care of their animals but leave them to roam.
|
Member:
sonoita
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 14, 2007 - 10:00 pm:
Amen Sara.
Happy Trails,
TARGET PRACTICE ANYONE?
|
Member:
canderso
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 - 9:18 am:
I have 65 acres of land that I hope one day to use for my horses. It is a natural deer yard, and there is a flock of about 20 wild turkey that go between my land and my neighbour. Any guy who hunts starts to DrOol the second he sets foot on my land.
So how to keep the yahoos off my land?
My solution has been to give hunting access to ONE (and only one) hunt club - this is a group of local guys who are responsible hunters. They tell all other locals that this is 'their' land.
The club takes care of their stands (which all point away from the buildings and where I would keep horses), they check out the land regularly, keep an eye out for predators, and most importantly, they keep other hunters off my land. What is really bonus is that all the locals know only this club is supposed to be hunting my land, so they also question any unfamiliar trucks and/or hunters.
The Club tell me when the seasons open and close and we agree on when they will hunt (usually 4-6 days of the year). Right now, I just stay away during those days. They clean up after themselves completely. Every fall I get a few venison roasts and steaks for my freezer.
These guys know I might have horses on the land some day. I have certain gates that I like to keep closed and I have never found my gates open. They ask me every year when I plan to bring horses or any other animals.
I recently reseeded a field - they thanked me for attracting the deer, but stayed off the field completely.
I realize I am not in quite the same situation as other folks posting in this thread, but it has worked so very well for me. As a city person, it was a very pleasant surprise to find out that there are hunters out there who are extremely responsible, respectful and helpful... and hate the yahoos more than me.
|
Member:
jmarie
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 - 11:36 am:
CherylA, you've got the right idea! I've had no problems since I allowed only one hunter access to my property. Not only is he a state trooper; he's also about 6'2", built like a linebacker and has a shaved head and piercing eyes. He scares ME! He did come across a trespasser once, but made quick work of him.
All of my hunters have been scrupulous about closing gates, and each year they take it upon themselves to put up new No Trespassing postings all along my property line. They let me know if there's anything amiss on my property, and they are nice about putting back fallen fence boards and doing other minor chores as they go. They share their meat with me, which is the ultimate compliment, and they deliver it butchered, packaged and frozen right to my door. None of them has ever caused me any grief at all, and my horses follow them around along the fenceline like they're old friends . . . which, I suppose, they are. They appreciate being the only ones hunting my land, and I appreciate their help.
|
Member:
silly
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 - 12:07 pm:
I just purchased land in NY state and starting the planning of our small farm. You all have given me food for thought. Just something else to add to my already HUGE list of considerations... I wonder if no climb fencing would help for predators such as coyote and bear?
|
New Member:
nj52
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 15, 2007 - 2:07 pm:
I don't personally like hunting, but I do respect the right of those who hunt in a responsible manner. Unfortunately, there are some people who have no morales or conscience. Deliberate acts of violence are always disturbing, and even more so when it hits close to home. Pheeeeeew! Thanks for letting me vent about this.
|
New Member:
melis1
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 18, 2007 - 9:54 am:
Silvia,
What part of NY did you buy land? I'm located near Plattsburgh.
|
Member:
silly
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 18, 2007 - 1:14 pm:
Hi Melissa. We currently live in NJ and just bought 13 1/2 acres in Orange County, NY, about 200 miles from Plattsburgh. We will be planning/building over the next few years for a home and mini farm. I've been reading other threads on fencing and now, predators. I'm not sure what type of wild life is in that area... I'll have to asks the neighbors what they've seen and plan accordingly. Do you deal with a lot of wild life?
|
New Member:
melis1
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 18, 2007 - 6:03 pm:
Silvia,
Ahh, way down state. We have a lot of deer, an occasional moose, foxes, coyotes and fishers. We're using three strands of electric tape to keep our two horses contained and hopefully to keep the coyotes out. We've only lived here for about a year. I used to keep my boys out 24/7 when we lived in FL. Now I feel they are safer being stabled at night.
|
Member:
silly
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 19, 2007 - 1:02 pm:
Yes, down state.... Here in NJ and NYC (I work in NYC) we consider Orange Cnty to be upstate, but you're VERY upstate... NY is quite a difference from FL, how have you adjusted?
We are considering tape for the horses and no climb with electric for the goats. I think that would be the best to keep coyotes out... We're also planning for chickens, so we have a lot of homework to do...
|
|
|
