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  Discussion on Transient behavior changes with daily wormer?
Author Message
Member:
Horse7

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 - 11:55 am:

I have noted with one horse, that feeding her CW (or Strongid C2X) in the AM makes her somewhat listless for a few hours afterwards. If she is fed the CW in the evening the day before, she is fine the next AM, full of energy.

She is normally a morning horse (once it gets dark she is not very active, tending to sleep within a few hours of darkness); immune system is a little on the fragile side; cycles normally without large behaviour changes; HanoverianxTB 16.2 1250lb 13yo.

Has this effect been observed with continuous wormer? I ride her almost daily in the AM so am pretty sensitive to her performance and don't think I am imagining this (but one never can tell!)

(in the back of my mind is that the double Strongid dose in the fall may not be a good thing if the horse is for whatever reason overly sensitive to the wormer's active agent)





Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 - 9:08 am:

Considering the size of the dose of pyrantel in the daily product it is more likely coincidence and not an actual effect. You are making a mistake comparing the daily dewormer dose to the paste dewormers dose which is what is recommended for tapeworm control, they are not similar. People who use the paste are giving several times the dose (3.6 gms vs 1.5 gms per 1000lbs) given by the daily dewormer without reported ill effects. However it is believed that the daily dewormer controls tapes so you do not need to worry about the double dosing.
DrO
Member:
Horse7

Posted on Friday, Nov 29, 2002 - 1:55 am:

Yes, the double dose is much larger. The concern come from:
-if- the horse is sensitive at the daily level, there could be a more adverse reaction at the higher level (double dosing in Fall) (which apparently is unnecessary with a consistent continuous program).

In a large enough population, some horses will have adverse reactions for whatever reason... for this particular horse I put into place more rigid controls to ensure that when the farm horses are wormed (most of which are not continuous) she does not get included with the rest and perhaps I discover she is the 1 in x thousand that is sensitive. Other horses I've had experience with don't seem to have any odd effects from pyrantel at continuous dosing-- from your reply I presume that there have been few if any reports of significant adverse reactions at continuous dosing levels.

Have there been any longintudinal studies examining
years of use vs. age vs. cause of death?
Pfizer apparently believes colic occurrence is reduced and is willing to back that with their program, but perhaps mortality for other disease processes is also affected either positively or negatively. [I don't seriously expect that such a longitudinal study has been done as there is no profit prospect for such a difficult study, and many more research topics of more value to horseowners]


Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Nov 29, 2002 - 6:56 am:

Right, we do not have any answers to the other disease scenrio and about all we can say is that horses on the program for half a dozen years now do not seem to be suffering from any unusual disease processes.

You are right about the possiblity of having the one is a 1000 (1 in a 100,000?) that is sensitive at this dose. Looking at the toxcity studies the dose you give is about 1/60th the one time toxic dose and usual signs of toxicity are stimulation of the cholinergic system so sweating, shivering and increase respiratory rates are thought to be the common signs.
DrO
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