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  Discussion on Barefoot jumpers ?
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New Member:
Sswiley

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 30, 2003 - 5:36 pm:

Just removed the hind shoes on my gelding 3 weeks ago. We are still trying to toughen up his feet and he is pretty tender. Im pretty sure I can get him through this fairly well. I actually have 2 questions.
1: How does having only front shoes affect them when they grow a lot of wall and become much longer in front than behind in only a few weeks.
2: Is there any one who has a completely bare foot jumper? Im not talking over 4 feet. I am concerned about traction on the turns and any other issues.
Member:
Sswiley

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 30, 2003 - 5:39 pm:

ONe more thing, everytime I click on the "took the shoeless plunge" thread I dont see any posts. Im sure there is some interesting disscusions there.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 30, 2003 - 6:32 pm:

Hello Shelly,
And welcome back, long time no see (I think). The problem with the shoeless plunge is the size of the file: you are not waiting till the whole thing downloads. Ill see if Lisa has time to subdivide it.

Of course feet do not wear down, but most believe shoes slow down growth not promote it.
DrO

Member:
Aannk

Posted on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 8:10 am:

In answer to number 1. Most of the horses at my barn only have fronts, and we get them shod every 6 weeks. I have not noticed any looking noticeably uneven until the very end, and then it is mild.
In answer to number 2. My gelding has not had shoes for several months. We are jumping too. Not big yet, but I expect to be jumping 2'6" by the end of the summer or maybe higher. I will not put shoes back on him unless he exhibits pain or his feet deteriorate. I can't see how bare feet would hinder traction, on the contrary, I would think it would be better! His mother never had shoes, and I jumped her up to 4 feet. I think it depends upon the footing more than anything else.
Alicia
Member:
Htrails

Posted on Thursday, May 1, 2003 - 8:45 am:

There is a neat article at naturalhorsetrim.com about some barefoot Thoroughbred eventers, prelim I think. You will have to scroll down the home page to find it - the page is very long.
Risa
Member:
Cnichola

Posted on Friday, May 2, 2003 - 9:48 am:

My 23-year old Arabian jumps barefoot. He's never had any trouble with traction. In fact, when my thoroughbred (who develops sore feet and a digital pulse each time we try to take him barefoot) is getting his shoes drilled & tapped for caulks because we're competing on grass, my farrier tells me that my barefoot horse has better traction on grass than the shod horse. Those shoes are kind of slippery without the caulks, and with the caulks there's some risk of tendon pulls if a caulk "sticks." Also, my barefoot guy has a lot of "cup" to his feet -- I don't know if that helps his traction or not. (This is "natural" cup -- my farrier never scoops him out). We only jump him 2'6" and 2'9" -- not because of his barefeet, but in deference to his older body. Good luck!
Member:
1sonya1

Posted on Monday, Sep 29, 2003 - 10:47 pm:

Two questions:
1. I bought a 4 yr old quarter/throuroughbred in January. At that time he had front shoes only, which I had removed after reading this article. He has done really well until just before the last trim, at which point he developed a crack in the front of the right fore hoof. This didn't seem to bother him, though, so the farrier burned the crack 4 weeks ago to stop it's progress. Then 2 weeks ago he became very off on the right fore, unwilling to put any pressure on it. This has improved, but he is still favoring that leg - there's never been any other swelling. Could the crack have caused this? He was started over fences maybe 2 or 3 months ago.
2. Also, how does one find a farrier that "specializes" in trimming barefoot horses correctly. My trainer is not supportive.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 1:42 am:

Hi, Sonya,

Could he possibly have developed an abscess?

As far as a farrier, I think the AFA has a web-site (check the sidebar of this site) and I know that you can get a listing of certified/tested farriers in your area. There are many academic farriers nowadays, who really study about how to trim a horse for the best of that individual. I know there have been many discussions on this site.
Holly
Member:
1sonya1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 2:49 pm:

Thanks Holly,
We wondered if it was an abcess, but shouldn't it have drained or something?
Sonya
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 4:23 pm:

Well . . . abscesses drain differently for different locations . . . if it is really deep, then it may be building steam.

There are lots of internal possibilities in the foot . . . lots of little bones in there

If it is a deep abscess, then it might take some soaking in warm water to come out . . . or it might take lancing . . . a vet would be your best bet, I think. Especially if it has been two weeks since the lameness started. Usually, with abscesses, the lameness comes and goes before it breaks out and drains, but if it is really deep? . . .

Hope it's just an abscess, but jumping does put lots of stress on those fronts and if he had a propensity for navicular-type problems anyway, then it could be something structural . . . I had a mare that showed signs of navicular and x-ray showed deterioration of the coffin bone.

I'll be interested to know the outcome. Best wishes,
Holly
Member:
Amara

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 4:53 pm:

we have a horse at our barn right now that has finally just popped an abcess.. he had been on and off lame on right front for several weeks, then about a week and a half ago became extremely lame-completely 3 legged.. it took a week for it to "pop", and still vet had to come out and open it up some more.. it was very deep- he's still sore, tho not sure if its from another pus pocket that we havent gotten, or just leftover from all that he had to go thru...

as far as your trainer not being supportive about barefoot, does she have web access? send her to barefoothorse.com or naturalhorsetrim.com non supportiveness is frequently ignorance related i think... i have a pony that i used to drive on the roads-barefoot, pulling sometimes more than his own weight (-over 900 lbs!) up and down hills with a cart that had no brakes.. and he never had a problem-no slippage or breakage ever...(he's an ex-pulling pony so the weight is NO problem for him (an easy load he says!!!)

i think by keeping him barefoot you'll decrease the chances of navicular or other foot related problems-he'll have better shock absorption and increased healthy circulation in the foot.. but until his feet are appropriately toughened he will be more likely for cracks,bruises and abcesses.. transitioning can take more than a year in some situations...
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 7:31 pm:

Hm... maybe if you can post a picture of the cracked hoof DrO can comment. Besides addressing the cause of your horse's current lameness (abscess? infection? you need a diagnosis from a vet for this!), the crack may signal a problem with the way your horse is trimmed. I don't think of cracked hooves, sore feet, as a "normal" state... I shudder at the thought that putting a horse through a painful year in order to get them barefoot is somehow doing the horse a service.
M
Member:
1sonya1

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 8:56 pm:

Great idea on the picture. I'll try to get one tomorrow. My horse didn't seemed to have had a lot of experience with a farrier before I got him, so I've been working with him to get him to stand still during trimming (as well as regular daily hoof care). The trim doesn't always seem straight to me, the farrier hasn't liked working with his feet. Since I've had him, he's drastically improved, though, so the trim should, too. I certainly don't want him lame for a year...he's the only horse I've got, and I want to RIDE!
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2003 - 10:25 am:

there are yahoo chat groups for barefoot horses. I found them really useful. And they can direct you to a certified farrier in your area who believes in trimming and staying barefoot. Just make sure its what you feel comfortable with. A couple sites trim a little radical and are considered controversial, (ie. Strasser)... Also look for a book by Jaime Jackson, he puts it in laymen's terms, It helped me explain to the farrier what i wanted without rubbing him the wrong way. Look up Tribeqqus.com, barefoothorse.com, or thehorseshoof.com (strasser site)

Melissa don't think of it as a year of "pain" its a soreness, yes. But, the rewards are immeasurable. Shoeing nowadays should be considered a preference not the rule of thumb. Hopefully, most horses in the future won't ever be shod. I liken it to geisha women who bind their feet. 20 years of that and their feet are deformed. my girl went lame for about 3 months but I have had 2 years of perfect soundness in her legs. And at 20 she still is the first one up a rocky slope and the most sure footed on the way down. And while everyone is slipping around on asphalt or smooth concrete, she is sure footed.

good luck,
jojo
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2003 - 10:30 am:

https://www.tribeequus.com/help.html

I was just looking at the site i recommended and on there is a list of natural trimmers...

jojo
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2003 - 2:14 pm:

First, let me say I have nothing against horses going barefoot. One of our horses was barefoot for a few years. We shoe because the trails here are rocky, because we ride out cross-country and jump, etc. and the shoes help keep our horses' feet in great shape. The downside is expense.

Even 3 months of lameness seems pretty tough on a horse to me. Isn't there a way to take a horse barefoot without a long period of bruises, abscesses, or sore feet? Our older horse who has been barefoot was never sore from it. Ranch horses routinely work in shoes for the summer, then have their shoes pulled for the winter. If going barefoot (and doing the intended work barefoot) makes the horse lame, maybe it needs shoes?

As for shoeing being like bound feet, I think it's not an apt analogy. Binding girls' feet crippled them, so they couldn't walk. In contrast, almost all horses competing at the International level are still shod, and they do orders of magnitude more work -- with more stress on the feet, more concussion -- than our horses do. Many of these International stars retire in their late teens. Consider eventing champions Biko, Custom Made, GiltEdge, for example. How many barefoot horses have you seen that are jumping Olympic level cross-country horses at age 18 like Custom Made?

As for traction, yes a shod horse can find those shoes slippery when the nail heads wear down. But there are proper shoeing techniques, intervals, etc. that address the work the horse is doing, given the footing the horse is asked to work on.

Barefoot or shod, I think it's more a question of what your own horse needs, given the work he'll do, what his feet are like, etc. And then finding a farrier who really is good and will do a good job for you.

M
Member:
Amara

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2003 - 6:22 pm:

the upside of going barefoot and waiting out the possible few months of soreness while the feet toughen and strengthen is the deceased incidence of navicular/founder and other problems... there's a lot of research coming out of MSU from Dr Bowker about horses with severe founder who have not responded to traditional correctional shoeing who are going sound after going barefoot..
the binding of the feet is actually an apt analogy.. shoeing deceases the horses ability to let his heel "expand" during the load bearing phase-this is whwat the foot naturally wants and needs to do..you have decreased blood flow thru the foot-thus increasing the chance of founder and other problems... this is why you only have a digital pulse in a shod horse when there's a problem.. in an unshod horse a light digital pulse is normal-tho its scary when you first realize it!... in my barn we have several dressage horses that have transitioned to barefoot... when they were shod they were constantly tripping over their own feet... they literally didnt know where there feet were! one horse actually had swelling at his coronet band!.. when the shoes came off the tripping stopped and the horse with the swelling at the coronet got rid of it pretty quickly!..
because shoes protect a foot from the natural environment so much, when a shoe comes off the wall and sole of the newly barefoot horse is not nearly as tough as it can become.. it takes a while for new-stronger foot to grow.. if a barefoot horse is on soft footing or not asked to work much, when put into heavy work or asked to work on rough ground but not given a chance to transition, he will get sore-this is why those ranch horses need shoes in the summer.. during the rest of the year they are frequently just "lounging" around-orbasically not working much/hard or on difficult terrain.. the feet are not as strong as they need to be to compensate for the extra "hard" terrain in the summer...and it takes too much time for the feet to transition, so shoes are easiest.. because the horse is essentially barefoot the rest of the year, he still has the foot that he needs to get him thru the rest of the year, thus he's not sore...
no matter how rocky the trails, a horse's feet can become tough enough... i know people who trail ride their horses on nasty terrain in south dakota.. and hte horses are barefoot.. they are out for several hours a day working hard...the terrain i have in new england arent nothing like they gotta deal with out there!.. once the horses transition, there's no more soreness.. to ease the transition many people use boots like old mac's...
i think of hte aboriginal tribes in new zealand area... they spend their days barefoot... genetically they are human like me and you, but because their feet are constantly exposed to the encironment instead of being put in shoes, the bottooms of their feet are calloused... if i were to go to live there and adopt their cultural dress code, my feet would be horribly sore at first-i might use boots here and there for awhile to ease the transition... eventually my feet would toughen up...

barefoot as a way of life for competition horses is still in its infancy...hopefully the movement will grow, and more people will adopt it.. not all horses can go barefoot because they live such a sheltered life that their foot will never become tough enough to adapt-horses stallbound all the time (have no turnout) will have this problem... horses with a good amount of turnout time will make the switch pretty well (rocky turnout is considered best)..
but more and more people are looking at it...people need to keep an open mind and really look at what people are saying and have learned about it...
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2003 - 7:25 pm:

Hi my horse is 6 going on 7. He's never been shod. I ride in extremly rocky hills on occasion and mildly rocky areas. I live in the mountains of west milford, NJ. Its rocky. I also jump small jumps, under 2 feet. His feet are wonderful. It all depends on the horse. I would put shoes on my horse in an instant if he needed them. He doesnt.
Member:
Amara

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2003 - 7:54 pm:

that's great katrina!
he probably will never need shoes if you keep doing stuff like that... his feet are obviously very tough...
all horses can eventually get tough feet like that if they are properly supported thru the transitioning phase...
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, Oct 2, 2003 - 8:03 pm:

Thanks for the clear and interesting explanation, Missy. For financial reasons, I don't shoe my guys . . . and do my own trims . . . and though I sometimes lose a little piece here and there when they hit a rock the wrong way, I have no splits or soreness, and the chipping can be rasped away pretty easily.
You are correct that it is often because of the way we keep our horses from being horses (and I understand that some of the reasons are valid due to space or location) that they need other man-made inventions to compensate.
Thanks, again.
Member:
Amara

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2003 - 6:05 am:

Hi Holly
I trim my horses myself too.. its pretty easy to learn... i find that farriers who are used to shoeing horses when asked to only trim a horse take off way too much sole... that alone will make a horse sore!!!

do you roll the edges of the walls from heel quarter to heel quarter? (a "mustang" roll).. i find less chipping by doing this...
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2003 - 9:15 am:

Missy,
Mustang roll, huh? Never heard that . . . so I'm not sure what you are meaning, but I do file around the edges with the "smoother" side of the rasp after the major trimming and rasping. Usually, I focus more on the front half of the wall, so there is easier break over . . . I don't take off a lot, but as shoers do when they set the shoes back. Is there a way to do it toward the back of the hoof so that they don't chip as badly? I'll have to pay more attention next time.
This is a little detour from the original subject, but, Missy, it is so different out in CO for trimming than back in NE . . . I can't even use the hoof knife on my guys anymore. Have to use nippers to take off extra sole and frog because it gets as hard as old, dried saltwater taffy . . . and it takes extra muscle to use the nippers on the wall . . . The change in my guys' hooves is amazing in just two months' time . . . and I see lots of contracted heels in the horses around me . . . and frogs that are inches too long. Really different.
Holly
Member:
Belhaven

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2003 - 10:27 am:

I have taken the barefoot plunge and hopefully will never look back. The tribeequus site is an excellent source for trimmers. I use Pete Ramey and have had extensive talks with Cindy Sullivan (both on the site)....other great sites for information include:

https://wwww.barefoothorse.com
https://www.ironfreehorse.com

I sadly had an experience with a "strasser" trim-I didn't realize that is what I was getting...you can read about her methods and make up your own mind. I found the trim to be far too aggressive and ended up with 3 lame horses. I have heard though many horses being trimmed in this fashion and it working out.

The best thing you can do is educate yourself. Oh, I plan to show hunters with mine barefoot.

Member:
Amara

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2003 - 11:10 am:

concerning strasser: i have a few friends that actually became certified strasser trimmers, then ended up turning their certifications in when there horses went lame and never sent sound.. one person lost a few of her horses as a result... the other one has 1 horse that is still recovering 2 yrs later...

holly- i'm not surprised you have to use nippers to cut away extra sole and frog.. CO ground is pretty tough.. those feet get really hard... if you had the time to ride them on rocky hard ground more you probably wouldnt need to trim away any extra sole or frog-the ground would take care of it for you!.. the ground here and the work i give my guys is just right, i never have to trim any extra sole or frog...
it too bad you're seeing contracted heels and too long frogs... are those guys wearing shoes? they must have severely run under heels and very long toes...*sigh*
as far as the mustang roll, i round off the edge from heel quarter to heel quarter, rather than just the toe and front quarters... this really prevents chipping...
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Friday, Oct 3, 2003 - 11:30 am:

Hm, interesting, I've never heard that barefoot horses all have digital pulses. I don't recall our barefoot gelding ever having a digital pulse. Is this "normal" for barefoot horses, DrO?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Oct 5, 2003 - 5:55 pm:

Hello All,
I have been enjoying this discussion. In response to Melissa's question above, all horses have digital pulses. It is one of the places you can take the pulse from a healthy horse. Inflamation in the foot and founder however will increase the intensity of the pulse to the point that it bounds, it is remarkable and may even be visualized. Horses vary from time to time with how easily their digital pulse is found when they are healthy. And some horses are always easy and some always difficult to find.

I have not noticed that bare foot horses have an increased pulse. We have been on a long ride this weekend and some of our horses are barefoot all the way around, some wear boots, and some have shoes on the front only. I will check their pulses tomorrow morn and follow them through the week then report what I have found next week.
DrO
Member:
Dres

Posted on Sunday, Oct 5, 2003 - 7:55 pm:

Dr. O.. thanks .. i have been feeling two of my riding horses.. ( both with shoes tho) digital pulses.. the gelding's pulse is stronger after riding then the mares.. so i have been keeping track for both just for my knowledge later if there IS something i need to be watching for .. i.e. abscess .. kind of like getting to know the gut sounds of all your horses...

will be interested in what you report back on..

Ann
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Monday, Oct 6, 2003 - 12:27 pm:

I wanted to respond to the analogy. I think its amazing in that when I finally took off my horses shoes for the last time, i noticed in a 3-6 month period that her hoof grew almost a half- size. and in a year or so it grew to a full size above that when I was shoeing, all the way around.


The books do point this out. That since the shoes "bind" the hoof, growth can be stunted over time and the longer you shoe, the hooves won't grow like they should. Therefore, when the shoes are taken off, they have "growing room" so to speak. I think it has to do with slowing the blood flow when a horse is shod vs. when they are barefoot. That is the reason why the first months are slightly painful. Like when you are asleep and you lose feeling in your arm, but then wake up and have that tingling feeling when the blood starts flowing again? this happens to the hoof when you take the shoes off. and since horses who have always been shod aren't used to this freedom or sensation.

About digital pulse, i never could feel hers when i shod, but now that she is barefoot i can find it easily. (just keep your thumb away... LOL (I would always mistake mine for hers....grin)

I could go on about this forever, but I think that even if you don't believe in going barefoot, or don't believe in the methods out there, (ie. Strasser). you should read the books she has written. I was convinced after that.

I think given the chance an unshod horse competing on the national level would outperform (if all other things being equal) a shod horse....(grin- but how would we put that to the test)

joj
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Monday, Oct 6, 2003 - 2:07 pm:

DrO, I meant a strong(er) digital pulse.

JoJo, if shoeing horses were like binding feet, then all shod horses would be crippled. That doesn't appear to be the case. It's a colorful analogy, but over the top.

M
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Monday, Oct 6, 2003 - 5:32 pm:

Not necessarily totally on target but definitely not over the top... bear with me. I am quoting from a book- Shoeing: A necesary evil? (pg 56. Hiltrud Strasser).... I hope this is ok to requote and not get in trouble....

" The human has musculature and motor nerves in the lower limbs, and reduced circulation affects not only the sensory nerves, but also the motor nerves (which coordinate the action of muscles). .... " therefore, a person can become crippled....


" In a horse, however, the situation is different, since there is no musculature below the knee or hock. Movement of the hoof occurs via tendons and musculature higher on the leg. These muscles are not affected by the impaired circulation in the hoof, and can therefore work normally. so the horse can move normally, even when it has little or no sensation in the hoof. (shod or nerved horse). This numbing (through oxygen deficiency) effect of the shoe is also what makes it possible for a horse to move well despite pathological changes and damages inside the hoof, and for such damage to continue and increase for a very long time without anyone becoming aware of it."

I still stand by my analogy....

jojo
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Monday, Oct 6, 2003 - 6:34 pm:

Hi, I posted earlier about my barefoot horse. I dont do the strauser method.Too much hassle. My horse gets a 6 week trim from the farrier and I trim (file)if needed if he wears a little uneven or if I think he will start to chip. One other note the more rough the ground the stonger his feet become. This is my first barefoot horse and I would never have believed it if I did not see it with my own eyes.
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Monday, Oct 6, 2003 - 9:24 pm:

Jojo, I see you got the idea from a book, and in particular a passage written by Strasser, whose method appears to have actually lamed horses (see others' posts, above).

I think Strasser's theory here make no sense: shod horses DON'T lack sensation in the hoof! Shod horses go lame (experience foot pain) from bruises, abscesses, infections, laminitis, navicular changes, DJD, hoof imbalance, etc. -- just like barefoot horses! Shoeing a horse doesn't make the foot insensitive. Come on, Jojo, you know that!

Certainly lousy farriery (the long-toe/underrun heel/quarter crack photo recently posted at HA comes to mind) can create a pathological foot. I'm sure there are lots of so-so farriers too. But depending on what you want to do with your horse, shoeing (by a really good farrier) may be an important thing to protect your horse's feet. We rode for a week last summer at Acadia on the carriage roads, and my gelding was in aluminum shoes in the front. He had worn clear through the toes of both by the end of the week on the fine stone dust roads. I'm not sure that would have been such a healthy amount of wear had he been barefoot.

One more thing: horses in shoes pack mud in their feet, and they can certainly feel stones and the impact of the earth on their soles. The shoe only covers the hoof wall, maybe adds 1/4 inch of height. So I think the notion that there's "no contact" with the earth on the heel or the sole is exaggerated.

M
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 10:51 am:

Well here are my results of my monitoring. I decided to put off the first report until a second trip so that I would have before and after results. I decided to monitor just the front legs and used a scale of 0 to 3 with

0 = no pulse detected within 10 seconds of trying
1 = pulse detected within 5 - 10 seconds but requires concentration to feel consistantly
2 = pulse easily detected in just a second or 2
3 = pulse is bounding

Horse Prior to ride After ride and cooled out Next day
1 Shod 0 0 0
2 Shod 1 1 1
3 Unshod 1 1 1
4 Unshod 2 2 2
5 Unshod but boots when ridden 1 1 1


First I would note that the number 1 horse is a very large TWH that grew up in a show barn and has thickened pasterns from some of the techniques used on padded up show horses. This horse has been barefoot up until 3 weeks ago and his pulse always hard to find.

There is a trend here that the unshod had a more apparent pulse than the unshod. I was really surprised to not see a more remarkable rise in the pulse following a 5 hour ride on fairly hard ground. More subjectively and within the groups I do think that there was a small rise following the ride but did not elevate horses out of their group. The horses remained very consistant in these measurements and this matches other measurements I took of the horses in the preceeding week. I must say that though there is a trend for increased pulse of unshod horses within this group, I find many shod horses within the practice with a number 2 designation and am not sure that this small sample is representive. I will watch when we pull the two shod horse's shoes for the winter to see if there is a change.
DrO
Member:
Belhaven

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 2:17 pm:

I would like to jump in here with some thoughts and observations. I have 3 horses-older gelding, a 5yo and 3yo. The 5yo has been barefoot about 8 weeks now and in work-including jumping.

The 3yo is lightly hacked 3 times a week and the 20yo breathes air and eats grass.

I have noticed an increased pulse in the 5yo since he has been barefoot...actually all 3 horses have a pretty distinct pulse AND warmer feet than shod horses I have felt.

I have been jumping the 5yo again-up to about 2'6"---his traction both in the arena and during fields rides is better than when he was shod.

Also, some side observations: He is more balanced since barefoot than he ever was shod. AND, he always had a left drift while jumping-he has been perfectly straight since barefoot with no changes on my part.

Related? No idea-just interesting to note.
Member:
Mwebster

Posted on Saturday, Oct 25, 2003 - 2:45 pm:

DrO, thanks for your research. I think it reveals how problematic it can be to draw conclusions from small data sets (as you pointed out), and from data that may have complicating factors. For instance, horse #1 is currently shod but has only been shod for 3 weeks, so are we looking at the results of being barefoot (for a long period), or being shod (for a very short period)? Horse #1 could almost as easily have been lumped into the unshod group, if we think we are assessing the long term impact of shoeing on circulation in the foot. Plus, as you point out, this horse's pulse has always been hard to find (by which I assume you mean he was a 0 while barefoot?). In a way, he's our control -- if he's a 0 barefoot, and continues to be a 0 shod, then that's perhaps more compelling than looking at averages across a tiny sample.

Another way to look at the data is to say we have 2 outliers (a common statistical method is to DrOp the extremes from the calculation) which would leave us with 3 horses, 1 shod, 1 barefoot, 1 barefoot with boots, all 1's.

So, I'm not sure that the data shows a trend...

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Oct 26, 2003 - 7:34 am:

There are other problems that I can see with the above observations that we have not covered, including the subjectivity of this test and drawing conclusions about what a increased pulse means.

I suspect most folks don't pay much attention to the pulse till there is a change. The result is over time they become better at finding the pulse. Subjectively this could appear as a increase in strength of the pulse, when all that is happening is increase proficiency at detecting the pulse. Lastly it must be pointed out that despite an increased pulse in founder, there is decreased circulation at the level of the cappilaries: an increased pulse is a bad thing and a decreased pulse good in some circumstances.
DrO
Member:
Alden

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003 - 12:54 pm:

Hello all,

I’ll say up front, I have bare foot horses and I have shod horses; just depends on the foot.

But, a discussion about blankets and when/when not to blanket got me to thinking, again, about the bare foot dilemma. A comment in the blanket discussion about breeding away heavy coats was right on the mark, and not just about hair coats.

We have breed the feet right off many of your horses, some breeds more than others. And that is where wild horse comparisons go wrong. Of course you won’t see the terrible feet of our domestic friends in the wild; a wild horse with bad feet is just dinner for a coyote, it has been bred out of the wild horse.

Good sound shoeing practices, done regularly will keep most horses in good shape. A percentage will not need shoes. What percentage will go bare foot? Dang if I know, pull the shoes and let the horse tell you.

Alden
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 4, 2003 - 2:20 pm:

Hello Alden....fwiw, my horse is going barefoot Thursday...hopefully he will stay that way
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