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  Discussion on Pet Food Recall
Author Message
Member:
beckettj

Posted on Friday, Apr 20, 2007 - 10:55 am:

Dr. O:

So far the pet food recall has been limited to dog and cat food products, however, I just read an article in the New York Times this morning that indicates that some of the contaminates have turned up in the urine of some hogs in California. Is it possible that some of these ingredients may have made it into horse feeds?

If so, what are the symptoms of kidney failure in horses? Thank you!

Janice
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Friday, Apr 20, 2007 - 11:57 am:

Hi Janice, your post gave me a start! My horse is having the first three symptoms... but his blood was just drawn and is normal... hopefully his is just a bean!

From Dr. O's article:

Symptoms

Acute renal failure (ARF) is frequently a secondary condition to a primary disease so the predominant symptom may be that of the primary disease. Kidney failure should be suspected in those diseases known to harm the kidneys, particularly if the horse's clinical signs are worse than expected with the primary disease. Signs of the kidneys failing are due to the build up of toxins in the blood and an inability to form urine:

depression
loss of appetite
altered (usually lowered) urine output.

If the toxin levels become very high: head pressing, mania, and coma may develop. Other correlating signs of ARF are dehydration, elevated heart rate, red mucous membranes, fever, colic, and laminitis.

https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/1100.html
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 9:13 pm:

We should note there are still a lot more questions than answers about whether the dog food was responsible and if so what in the dog food caused the problem. Despite the popular reporting this is still not well established.
DrO
Member:
zarr

Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 9:37 pm:

Dr.O I just came here having been at the AVMA web site and they have EXTENSIVE info on the pet food problem and melamine contamination so I'm really confused now ???????????????? Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 8:35 am:

Looking at the page I see extensive information also cindy but I don't see any proof (or even strong evidence) this is the cause of widespread poisoning. This is taken from the AVMA FAQ page you reference above on the pet food poisoning:

Q: What is in the food that is making animals sick?
A: The cause of the illnesses has not yet been confirmed, and the FDA and laboratories are continuing to evaluate samples and reports of illness or death. The substance melamine has been detected in the affected wheat gluten, corn gluten and rice protein concentrate, but it has not been definitively determined as the cause of the illnesses and deaths. Because the cause is not confirmed, the treatment can not be specifically directed to one cause. Generalized treatment for kidney disease and vomiting is recommended until a more specific treatment can be determined.

DrO
Member:
zarr

Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 10:58 am:

So despite their concern and a bunch of info we are are waiting for ABSOLUTE proof. OK I'm married to an engineer and my dad was one also! Lord save me from details :-) Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 7:14 am:

That does not accurately describe the situation cindy.

Cornell sounds a bit perplexed at the clinical signs and the toxins identified. On the last posting I received from them they are having a hard time explaining the problem from the information they have. The problems are that melamine is not known for renal toxicity and has a low toxicity rating.

More accurately the situation would be described as one that has more questions than answers and I would say has many of the hallmarks of a media produced event.
DrO
Member:
zarr

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 11:42 am:

Now there is an additional recall and my biggest question is why would these companies forgo the thoundsands of dollars in sales if there were not a problem? The only answer would be to avoid millions of dollars in lawsuits ?? Sorry Dr.O but a friend lost 2 young and healthy cats to what her vet said was kidney failure and she was feeding a recalled brand??? Why would Menu foods start a media feeding frenzy? Maybe they can sue the big networks and recover their profits?? Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 1:59 pm:

There is no need to apologize Cindy this is exactly what these discussion forums are for. I am just letting you know that, as it stands right now, the situation is not well understood, this is a fact that both the researchers into the problem and the AVMA are aware of.

The reason for the recall is they received information that suggested there was a possibility there was something in these feeds that was responsible for the reported problems. I am sure they were not responsible for the media feeding frenzy that followed. However so far a clear explanation for this initial problem has yet to be found. Do you remember the ivermectin recall we covered in such detail last year? This was done despite the fact nothing was ever found wrong with the product. It is important to understand the exact nature of this event because if we concentrate on the wrong problem, whether it is related to these foods or something else, we may miss the true danger and others will die needlessly.

As you may know besides my equine practice I also own a small animal hospital. Dr Mitchell, my small animal associate, has not seen an increase in renal failures. This is a common cause of death in small animals I am sorry to report and my condolences to your friend.
DrO
Member:
zarr

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 3:08 pm:

Yes I know that cats die often with kidney problems and thank you I will pass it on. My concern is that there is a problem here, so how long and what would it take to become the evidence you require?? Am familar with the recall also other recalls that just fade away but this one seems very extensive, so time will answer for both of us! Cindy
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 6:49 pm:

There is also concern that it may be in OUR food supply. The FDA is going to check imported wheat gluten, corn gluten, corn meal, soy and rice protien and rice bran. They think 1000's of hogs may be affected by the investigation.

Rueters news story. Just out about 1 hour ago.

Sigh, just when we thought is was at least safe for US to eat our chow...
Member:
tweeter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 8:04 pm:

What I want to know is WHY would the US import any
food from China? We should have more than enough Wheat Gluten, Rice Protein and whatever else here in this country. We (the USA) should never import any such food products from 3rd world countries. Maybe electronics, cars, clothes, oil etc but never anything we or our animals would eat its crazy. I'm home cooking for my two dogs one is very old and 1 has kidney disease so I'm not taking any chances.
Member:
quatro

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 9:23 pm:

Hi All, As a kennel owner, I have many concerns over what we are feeding our pets. I had a lady bring me pouches of Meow Mix for her cat. I checked on the label and it was made in Thailand. YIKES! Who is policing that product? My local vets said they have not noticed any increase in renal problems in our area. But I still worry what we are feeding our animals.

suz
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 6:17 am:

Hello Cindy,
Evidence to be required to do what? Any time one is suspicious of a product you should not use it. I would not use one of these recalled products at this time. From the information so far the company did the responsible thing recalling when it did. But this is not proof the food was the problem or if the food is the problem that melamine in the food is what the poison is (this is the the second widely published theory). When you put together the low numbers, considering the many millions of pets exposed, and the fact that melamine is not a known nephrotoxin, you should wonder exactly is going on here.

Though caution in your actions is prudent in such a atmosphere of uncertainty you must keep up with the actual facts which requires deeper digging that the latest local or national news. Going to the AVMA site was a good start but I was disappointed that I had to dig to find the above statement which should be the main thrust of the whole page. This is important because if you don't keep your head up it could be the difference in life of death for your animals because if you think you have the culprit you let your guard down to the real villain.

As to the magnitude of the problem being supportive of the purported cause being heralded consider silicon breast implants. This is a story that went on for many years (decades?), resulted in a FDA ban, brought down one of the biggest chemical companies in the world (Dow Corning), caused tens of thousands of women such grief there are reports of women trying to remove the implants themselves and courts found for the plaintiffs in the billions of dollars. In spite of all this, the latest, largest, best conducted studies do not find there was a substantial increase incidence of disease in women with them (Autoimmunity. 2003 Jun;36(4):193-7. Silicone gel breast implants and connective tissue disease--a comprehensive review. Bar-Meir E, Eherenfeld M, Shoenfeld Y.
Department of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Sheba Medical Center, Tel-Hashomer, Israel.) The safety is such that they are now back on the market in some European countries.

This is really the point of my discussion: how the facts of our world are distorted everyday in our common news sources. It seems nowadays how threatening a story can be made, despite what the facts are, that determines how much play a story gets.
DrO
Member:
zarr

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 11:22 am:

Kathy your question is so important and again it must rest with the almighty dollar. It would seem we have outsourced more items they we could ever imagine! Susan I've read that many things are turned away by FDA at the ports so they try but are overwhelmed, can you imagine opening a large container of rancid whatever ??? Dr. O, agree being alert and informed is sooooo essential to being able to make good choices for those in our care! I have seen so many different #s from a few to vets reporting many afflected animals??? So I come here to try and get good info and I do, but until the above post twas hard to tell what you thought was the right stance .. ie .. caution tempered with knowledge, works everytime! Cindy
Member:
tweeter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 12:00 pm:

I have to add that one good thing in my humble opinion is, many of the "Premium" pet food suppliers have been caught in this scare. If you are buying so call premium pet food and paying premium price then the suppliers should be using premium products...right? Well they got caught buying the cheapest product they could find from China. I somewhat agree with Dr. O that the media as usual has created lots of the misinformation but for one I am glad. I am one of the owners to purchase 2.00 a can dog food thinking it was the best because it cost so much and that the "premium" companies spend so much on research etc that it must only contain high quality products, well now I'm home cooking and its MUCH cheaper...a little more work but at least I know what they are eating. My vet advised me to use Home Prepared Dog and Cat Food Diets by Donald R Stombeck, DVM. The book is great for anyone interested. I know this is a horse site but most horse people also have the "hounds" as well.
Member:
chance1

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 12:25 pm:

I was feeding my dog, Sonny, a "premium" dog food until over a year ago. One day he started throwing up blood and off to the vet we went. He felt it was either an allergy, intolerance or bad food. Turned out that Diamond Foods had a recall due to mold in one of their ingredients. Our vet said he could eat what we "should" be eating so I started cooking for him. It was such a relief to not have to read the long list of recalled foods this time around. Rather, I passed it on to my other dog parent friends.

Sonny has done very well on his home prepared diet. His coat is gorgeous and his weight is perfect. I read about how dog foods were made and "regulated", thus my decision to cook for him. It is a bit more work, but much less worry. The best part is that he LOVES his food now and wasn't very interested when he was eating his more expensive canned and dry dog food!

I hope we don't have the same experience with any of the horse products! I check new bags very carefully. In fact I empty them scoop by scoop into another container to make sure all is OK.
Member:
aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 1:03 pm:

I Think we already discussed this, but I feed my dogs raw food. I buy a product called Aunt Jenis which is made here in Maryland. I also feed chicken parts whole and cut up, raw liver, raw eggs, and whatever else is available for sale at the grocery store. My dogs are not great eaters, but they at least consistantly eat this. When fed premium kibble, which costs over 2 dollars a pound, they would most of the time leave the food for days, no matter what I mixed with it.
I also feed some cooked canned food, just Merrick, which doesn't have grains.
I have my first litter of puppies coming (I hope!) and plan on weaning them on raw too.
Alicia
Member:
zarr

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 2:50 pm:

Kathy, that is the bk I use excellent help. Like you that high dollar meant better and that has proven very wrong! I have an old guy ,12, who was given a year when he was 6 took him off all store bought stuff and NO ONE guess him to be 12.So as you Ruth, Lesson learned. These are carnivores after all so why grain at all? Alicia puppy pictures would be good just put them in front of your horse so we stay true to this site :-) Cindy
Member:
aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 3:05 pm:

cindy,
I hope to have a web site by the time the pups arrive (due June 17th) and will post photos of parents and pups :-)
Can we start a thread showing our doggies, or is that too off topic?
Alicia
Member:
zarr

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 6:11 pm:

Would never be for me but Dr.O will let us know! Maybe in the members lounge area?? Cindy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 - 10:23 am:

Hello All, You would be welcome to post them in the images section, just explain it is a dog's image in the subject header so those not interested do not waste time.
DrO
Member:
aannk

Posted on Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 - 10:30 am:

Great, I will explore doing this right now,
Thanks!
Alicia
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 - 5:26 pm:

Cindy o'dell, I about fell off my chair when you said "Lord, save me from the details" ! I too am the wife of an engineer, and have to "pray" daily. lol
**sorry off topic but didnt know where to post.**
leslie
Member:
zarr

Posted on Thursday, Apr 26, 2007 - 7:27 pm:

Leslie, your confusion is understandable not enough DETAILS. :-) Cindy
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