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Discussion on FYI, safe fencing (not)
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 - 9:00 pm:
We used smooth twisted wire (12.5 ga I think) on two pastures. I had read, and been told by people who've used it, that it was safer than barbed wire for horses and it is most likely. But it still does a lot of damage.
Our paint Stallion Rambo got both back legs through the fence and pulled about 30 feet down. Both rear legs are severely cut a few inches below the hocks. The cuts are on the front side the legs. The right leg was cut to the bone severing the extensor tendons, on the left only 1/3 of the tendon was cut.
The vet said he will live and will compensate pretty well without the one tendon. But I doubt he will move on cows the way he used to.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
twhgait
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 - 9:23 pm:
OUCH! Sorry to hear about the accident Alden. My gosh. We stopped using the smooth wire and found the electric rope. IMHO, I think it can do just as much damage, but it IS thicker and it has give to it so hopefully it's a little safer.
I really believe a horse will hurt itself on just about any fencing we can ever come up, unless it's somehow padded!
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 - 11:26 pm:
Oh, no! How heartbreaking, Alden.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 1:21 am:
Alden, it is so hard when one trys the very best they can and still ugly things happen. If you haven,t read Theron and Babes story and DrOs article on cold water hosing they both will encourage and help. Best of luck to you and your horse ! Cindy
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 2:25 am:
We have the huge advantage of natural fencing here (stone and sod "ditch" ancient field boundaries covered in brambles) backed up by electric fence in some places. Certain horses will still determinedly climb up on the ditches and damage themselves... and it's not as if they are ever really short of food here...
What an awful shame Alden. I'm afraid I am to be honest not against barbed wire that much in our own situation as I find that like cattle, horses seem to respect it more - I think they get a jag from the barbs early on in their boldness, or they know the barbs are there from muzzle investigations before the boldness, which may sometimes stops entrapment panic or causes them to back up before they get trapped in a way that the smooth wires and electric rope don't.
But I agree with Kim, it's just one of those things that horses do and I don't really think the type of fence makes that much difference... really sorry to hear about the tendon injries.
Imogen
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 9:39 am:
Alden,
Sorry to hear about Rambo's fight with the wire. Was the wire electric also? I hope he recovers o.k. Poor guy.
Kim,
I was thinking about padding my round pen the other day! You sure got that right; I have the plastic covers over t-posts and one of my horses being re-introduced to saddle, went on a bucking spree and managed to hit a few posts and cracked the covers. She appears to be o.k., but still, I was wondering if I should duct tape some foam around the bases of each post!
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 10:17 am:
Alden, Against our best efforts to protect them horses can and do hurt themselves.
The place I board my riding mare they have pipe pens.
Very safe, right? One of the boarders horses cast himself between the pipe fencce and a snow path (over the winter this horse walked the fence line, where he walked the snow became built up and very compact, so in the spring it takes longer to melt- so all the snow around the pen had melted except this rather high snow path)
This horse is a stallion who is rather full of himself.
When I found him he was breathing heavily and shaking.
Fortunately another boarder and I were able to get him out without having to get a cutting torch.
Sorry long story, my point is we try hard but stuff happens.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 10:32 am:
Angie, I know some horses develope a taste for duct tape, if they get it ripped part way off then the foam is revealed, which some curious taste tester will try.
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Member:
canyon28
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 12:13 pm:
I use Electro braid which is a rope type fencing with a charge going through it. I have never had a serious injury since installing it about 8 years ago. It stretches or will break if the horse really gets wound up in it. A couple of bad rope burns are the worst injuries I have had, and I have over 25 horses here most of the time. If a foal runs into it, they will either just go on through with out injury of any kind, or bounce back.It is also extremely easy to put up with only one or two people. I am also looking into premier braid, which is a similar product, made in the usa , and is a little less money. I use solar fencers, so maintence is very minimal.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 2:22 pm:
So sorry, Alden. I also use smooth wire fencing - so far no serious injuries. I am thinking of adding one or two strands of Horse Guard fencing, to keep the horses from trying to get at the grass on the outside.
Hope your stallion heals up as well as possible.
Lilo
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 2:28 pm:
Something very similar to your situation, Alden, happened to my mare. She apparently went to kick the horse in the adjacent pasture and caught her hind leg.
The boarding barn where we are uses three rows of regular rope (like clothesline rope) on metal t-posts, and has a hot wire attached towards the top of the "fence." Somehow, the deer that run through this rope fence manage to easily cut the rope with their hooves almost daily. Yet my mare got her leg caught, brought it forward and cut her leg open to the bone just in front of her hock and an inch lower. I was lucky to have just discovered it when it happened, because I called the vet out immediately - mostly due to the size of the opening. It wasn't bleeding, it was cauterized, and the mare must have been in shock because she wasn't even lame. The vet had to cut a little more off (making it even more difficult to stitch) because cauterized skin like that won't bind together (according to the vet). It wads a full month of stall rest, but she finally healed. She's still stiff on that leg, so we're watching with interest to see if that will resolve. But she never had one lame day.
I think I will look for fencing material that will break more easily if entangled. I think that might limit such a horrible accident. I would still use a strand of hot wire, though. I can't imagine what would happen if a horse entangles a leg and gets shocked as well as the cut while trying to get its leg out. Are all three or four strands of electric rope really needed?
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 4:11 pm:
I always put a splice in my hot wire-whether it's poly or wire. The splice is just tight enough to keep the current going through, but will pull apart if a horse gets caught. Actually, I put a splice in every section. I also teach every horse that comes to me to give to pressure with a rope, wire, or twine around their fetlocks, front and back. Then, if they are tangled and the circuit is broken due to the splice, they aren't nearly as likely to panic. I have a Paint that as a yearling got caught in fine gauge wire by a hind leg, broke the splice which stopped the current and then remained "hobbled" to the wire until I got to him. It had snowed and I could see how he had spent his time "tethered" by that wire. It would have come completely off had he really fought it, but he remained calm. That was before I had my horses at home, so I don't know how long he was there. Not a scrape. I know, that was lucky, but I have to think the training as well as the fact that the current was interrupted saved him a horrible injury. The splice in wire is easy to make-just thread one end through a loop in the other end. With poly, use electrical tape to hold the pieces together. An electric fence isn't meant to be a physical barrier. But Alden, I like you would have thought the heavy gauge wire would be much safer--harder to tangle and wrap around a leg. As someone said, if you remove every hazzard that a horse can possibly get hurt on, they will bring their own! Hope your stud's recovery is uneventful and --dare we hope--complete! Julie
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 6:23 pm:
Julie,
Smart thinking re the splice. That makes a lot of sense so the current is disconnected. I, too, trained my horses with rope around all the legs, throwing it around fetlocks, etc. They stand fine for that, no panic. But when the pressure doesn't give, that's when the panic sets in. Did you apply a lot of pressure when you trained? Also, would hobble training help?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 9:21 pm:
Hello Alden,
If just the digital extensors are cut and there are no other complications, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the outcome once this is all healed up. I would expect 100% soundness. Did you have electricity on this fence?
DrO
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 9:46 pm:
Dove--I start with a soft cotton rope and just hold until the horse stops pulling against it then immediately release and praise. The amount of pressure you start with will vary from horse to horse. Some will start to fight even the slightest pressure, but you just hold and move with them if they move. The immediate release is important as soon as they stop fighting. Repeat until they just "give" their foot with no resistance. Then progress to a thinner rope like baling twine--same procedure. Eventually even use the wire, but by that time, they should not be offering any resistance and giving their leg to the slightest pressure. You should actually be able to lead the horse by a front foot. When you do this, you are basically starting to teach your horse to hobble. If I need to clarify, let me know. Julie
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Sunday, Apr 22, 2007 - 9:58 pm:
No, the twisted wire isn't charged. I do have three rows of electric on this fence. One on top with t-post caps, one standoff in the middle and a standoff at the bottom.
Interestingly this horse is very well trained. Ropes , hobbles, plastic bags, etc you name it. He stood for the vet tech and the vet and never fuss as they cleaned, probed, cut and gave him a shot. We weren't here and there were other horses in his pasture and in the adjacent pasture. So we don't know for sure what happened.
One good thing I learned from this is the bandage the vet used, it's really easy to use and changing dressings on two legs takes me five minute max! He called it a glove, it's just a stretchy tube put on the leg over the hoof. It's taped above the hock and extends down to the fetlock. I just roll the bottom up, change the dressing and roll the glove back down. It's fantastic.
DrO, One other thing I haven't used before that the vet gave us was Curasalt dressings. I understand it's supposed to prevent proud flesh. Have you used these? How well does it work?
I sure hope he heals 100%, I rode him on cows last week and it was an amazing ride! He is very serious about his cows 
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 7:38 am:
Alden,
Good news from DrO, huh? Hope that is the case that your guy will heal just fine and be useful again.
If you could, I would love to see the injuries, and most of all, the vet "glove" in use. I just tried to keep a little wound on the outside of the lower leg covered, what a pain. And so minor compared to what you are dealing with but as we all know even little wounds can get infected and cause problems.
Lori,
I can see a couple of mine having fun ripping duct tape off. Nosey buggers! Thanks for pointing that out. I guess that's why you see some round pens with panels on the lower sections.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 9:52 am:
Alden,
That "glove" the vet used sounds great! Glad you had promising news from DrO!
Good luck,
Lilo
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Member:
cpacer
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 10:07 am:
Alden, sorry this happened to your horse and THANK YOU so much for posting about it. I had an order in for electric wire on one end of the pasture to section off some trees, and I just called the fence guy and changed it thanks to your post. We're going with rope now--hope that's better or at least more visible.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 10:57 am:
Hope it won't be long before you and your stud horse are working cattle again. We always asks ourselves what we could have done differently and try to adjust our management practices.
I have found that unless a fence is hot, a horse will lean on it . . . no matter what kind of fence it is . . . and once they know they can lean on it, they tend to disrespect it in other ways, too. (rubbing butts and necks on posts, chewing posts and rails, leaning through to get grass or play with friends).
I have Electro Braid up in one pasture/paddock and am adding more, but even though I got the speckled rope which is "easier to see" (according to the manufacturer) I find it very difficult to see from certain angles. I have had to walk over to it to make sure it is still there as sometimes it appears invisible. I still use surveyor's tape on the fence just to help with visibility. Once the horses have established the boundaries, they navigate the area with confidence and respect, but adding a new horse or horses can "up" the chance of miscalculation and possible injury, so I keep surveyor's tape around if I need to re-mark the fence line occassionally. Kicking toward another horse through a fence is something that we really can't control, and would most likely be the cause of injury to a horse even when high-visibility, good-quality electric rope is used. Time to send the stud off to Emily Post's School of Etiquette . . . or, at the least, read him some chapters from Miss Manners after supper.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 11:07 am:
Electro-braid for 10 years and still love it! Not even in the mad races around the world do they challenge it! Arena is panel fencing which is easily seen but they slam in to it on occasion. Perhaps it is the eletcrical field they feel! Alden very glad the outlook for your guy is so good! Cindy
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 12:50 pm:
Alden, so sorry re: your stud! Several years ago we had a 2 yr. old that somehow got out of our field (jumped is all we can figure) and ran with our neighbor's horses in a big field with field fencing that is falling down. He, of course, got a leg caught and cut himself really badly. He cut through the tendon sheath, but not the tendon. It took a lot of time, but he healed up great and is now an outstanding endurance horse. I wish we'd had your "glove." It sure would have made the daily bandaging easier! Best of luck with your guy; with your good care I bet he heals up fine.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 4:24 pm:
So sorry to hear of your horse's injuries, Alden. Despite our best intentions and efforts, horses just seem to find a way of getting themselves in trouble. We've all joked about bubble wrapping them, but I swear, there are days when I wish this was REALLY an option!
I hope your stallion makes a full and uneventful recovery.
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Monday, Apr 23, 2007 - 9:36 pm:
Thanks everyone for your support. The wounds are already looking better. I certainly hope he heals 100%, my wife is practicing on another horse for the day she can work some cows with this horse. (She hadn't worked up the nerve before the accident )
I'm posting three pictures to illustrate how easy this glove thing is to use. Last time I had to bandage a leg it involved dressing, gauze, heavy cotton padding, and wrapping over the cotton. Time consuming and complicated to say the least.
Glove rolled up and old dressing removed
New dressing in place
Glove rolled back down, done
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 2:14 am:
What's the brand name of the glove product? Do you know? I presume it is produced for human legs by someone like Smith+Nephew?
Looks great.
Imogen
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 6:59 am:
Alden,
Thanks, the pictures are very helpful. So is the glove secured on top with elasticon taped over some cotton? Is the other leg wrapped to help with stocking up, or was it also injured? How long did your vet say the glove can stay on before it needs to be replaced? Do you know where we can order the glove? (Sorry - lots of questions!)
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 7:18 am:
Alden,
Thanks from me also. I'd love to have a couple of those on hand too. I put my Sports Medicine Boots on Cody to keep his little scrap covered and he took a bite out of one!I hope I can sew it!
If that's Ramobo's worse wound, I think he will heal just fine.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 7:52 am:
Ditto - would love to know where I can get that glove. Would be a great item to keep stocked in the first aid kit.
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Member:
sonoita
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 11:43 am:
Alden,
I too would like to have the glove on hand.
Okay my problem is not my horses but my next door neighbors horses breaking my fence and coming through. I had five strands of smooth wire and it was through steel posts. And I mean steel. [before me] Holes were drilled in steel post and the wire run through. My next door neighbor's horses were leaning through the fence and broke the steel pole
at the ground. Now he did attach his fence to my fence and he does not have hot wire and that is what pulled my fence and caused it to break.So now I have gone and bought MORE solar powered fence and am going to run electric fence my whole entire fence line and make him disconnect his fence from mine. Lilo always says "Good fences make good neighbors"
Happy Trails
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 7:10 pm:
Hi Alden - that sleeve really helps a lot with changing dressings. I would also be interested what it is called and if it is available to owners (not just veterinarians).
Continued good luck wishes for the healing process,
Lilo
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 9:57 pm:
Angie,
The wound pictured was the one to the bone severing the tendon, it didn't look to bad at first but it's deceptive. It does look much better already and he is walking very well now also.
I don't have a brand name for the glove, the vet gave us three and they weren't in a package. The vet said we can wash them out when they get too dirty that's why we have three. Needless to say I'll wash them all and save them
There isn't any cotton under the glove at the top, the vet taped it right to the horse, but I don't know what kind of tape that is either. Afraid I'm not very helpful
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Tuesday, Apr 24, 2007 - 10:13 pm:
Looking on the web I find three brands that appear to be very similar to what we're using.
Easigrip elasticated tubular bandage (for people)
Tubigrip elastic tubular support bandage (for people)
PRO tubular compression bandage (this one appears to be for horses)
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
dove2
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 25, 2007 - 7:32 am:
Alden,
Would you be willing to call your vet and ask them which tubular bandage brand they use, and what size? It's possible they've tried various ones and find one does better for horses than others. Thanks for doing the research on them. I guess when we horse people see something innovative to use for our horses, we all get so excited. (Bet you didn't know you'd create such a commotion, huh?)
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Friday, May 4, 2007 - 9:07 am:
I'm back What a week....
What the vet called a glove is Redigrip by Biomet. It was a 4" roll and you cut what ever length you need.
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, May 4, 2007 - 10:45 am:
Thanks for the info, Alden. How's Rambo doing?
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Monday, May 7, 2007 - 10:10 pm:
He's doing good, thanks for asking. There's still a long ways to go to get the wounds healed. But he's alert, has a good appetite, walking well, and clowns around with me when I go into his stall.
Good day,
Alden
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