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Discussion on Yearling failing to develop?
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003 - 6:51 pm:
I have a yearling filly that just doesn't seem to grow. We had her in March when she was 9 months old.Before we had her she has been left in a barn with no feed, except hay all winter after she had be weaned. (approx 3 months)
It was a nightmare getting her started on any form of hard feed as she didn't know what it was.
Since then she has been having 2 feeds of youngstock mix,chaff and barley a day for the past 5 months along with best quality haylage and hay. She has been regularly wormed, vaccinated and all the usual.
Her coat condition is excellent, but it is her bones (density) and flesh that aren't developing. She has gone slightly taller in 5 months but has not widened or put on any flesh at all. She looks healthy apart from her weight and size.
Have you any idea why or what I could do to get her to develop. She should make 12hh at maturity but is so tiny she looks as though shes only just been born. Her chest width is only about 10" and she has not even grown out of the rug shes had of 4ft 6" over 5 months.
She is very supseptable to cold and has to be in at night as much as she can, she is happy in herself but gets very hungry alot of the time.
I`m just worried what could be the cause for her being so undeveloped and failing to put on some bone mass?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 - 6:57 am:
Hello Missa,
There is not enough information in your post to evaluate whether what you are seeing is normal, the result of the past poor nutrition, and whether your current nutrition is satisfactory. If we take your evaluations at face value then I suspect she has not recovered from the poor nutrition over the winter but will with more time.
If you will give me the weight of the foal, the expected weight of the foal when grown (average of the two parents), the nutritional breakdown of the feeds you are feeding, and the weights of the feed fed daily I will be glad to look at it all.
DrO
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 - 7:40 am:
Thanks
I would estimate that she is about 100kgs at present. Her parents and others of the same breed should weigh approximately 300-350kg when fully grown.
The feed she has is as follows:
The youngstock mix is a museli type feed
which is for youngstock from a year old up until 3 years of age. Here is the nutritional analysis off the bag: Nutrient Analysis
Estimated Digestible Energy MJ/kg: 12.2
Protein 14.0%, Oil 4.4%, Fibre 8.4%, Ash 7.5%, Vitamin A 26,000iu/kg, Vitamina D3, 2,600iu/kg, Vitamin E 345iu/kg. I would say she is having 400g a day in total of this.
Chaff is a low sugar high fibre and content is as follows:Protein 10,Oil 1.5 ,Fibre 40
Ash (Minerals)9,Digestible Energy 8 MJ/kg
She is having only 1 scoop a day of this being quite light I can't really say how much in weight she has.
Barley I have recently DrOpped off feeding it. She was having about 200g-300g of this a day.
The haylage she has about 1/4 of a slice a day along with 1/2 pads of good quality meadow hay. The haylage is top quality Ryegrass and is aimed at putting on weight and condition.
And of course on top of all this she is having good grass. Like I said she doesn't look unhealthy just very undersized.
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Member:
Swarnick
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 - 2:14 pm:
Hi Missa,
From your description, she doesn't seem to be that much out of the (although low) percentile for her age group and with a projected 12hh maturity (tiny for any mature horse). Do you know her parentage? Is she, or could she be, part or full Welsh or Shetland?
Shirley
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 - 3:56 pm:
She is purebred welsh, one thing that might be of relevance when concerning her size is that her parentage is somewhat very closely in-bred. The people who bred these ponies in this way believe it is an acceptable method.
Eg.Mum mates with Son and has a Filly she then mates with a Stallion who is also of the exact same breeding (they are Full Brother & Sister).
So bloodlines are exactly the same with no variation. Could this type of close breeding have any effect?
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Member:
Swarnick
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003 - 5:14 pm:
Missa,
The most obvious effects of excessive inbreeding are poorer reproductive efficiency including higher mortality rates, lower growth rates and a higher frequency of hereditary abnormalities. So her diminutive size may just be a result of it.
Shirley
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 - 7:01 am:
What is her current height at the withers Missa? Better would be to measure than estimate.
DrO
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 - 8:06 am:
Just under 10hh at 97cm, is that any help?
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Member:
Cara2
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 31, 2003 - 8:57 am:
Hi Missa,
I get the feeling from your messages that you are in the UK and that you have rescued this poor little filly from people who are less than caring owners/breeders. Any idea why she was weaned at 3 months and then only fed hay for a start? This will certainly have affected her even though Welsh ponies are designed to live on fresh air. The in-breeding is disgraceful and very irresponsible but is less likely to be the source of her problems. I wonder if being shut up in a barn as a young foal with minimal exercise would have affected her bone density - Dr O?? Have you thought of trying her on a feed balancer such as Blue Chip? There are very good reports of that sort of product being used for neglect cases.
It may just be that you have a very small pony though. A friend of mine breeds PBA's on an amateur but very successful basis and he kept a filly he'd bred himself and when she was 4 put her to his new stallion (also home bred but totally different blood lines) The two of them produced a 13hh pony the first time and a 12.2 the second so he didn't try the mare again! Another friend has a 13.2 "pony" who is a full thoroughbred out of racing lines and whose parents were both over full sized. He is just a scaled down version!!
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 5:07 am:
Hi Helen,
Weaning wise, her breeders believe in never giving any of their youngstock hard feed saying it doesn't do there bones good to have to much weight on them. (but considering she hadn't any weight on in the first place this rule is nonsence in my opinion)
Anyway, having no turnout or much exercise for a long period of time must have had some effect like you say. She had the company of others but she was the underdog and never got her fair share of hay.
She wont eat feed balancers even mixed in with her normal feed, I've has samples from blue-chip, buckeye grow and win and all the companies you can think of but being a fussy eater she's having none of it. The pellets just don't seem appetising to her.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 6:35 am:
At this time she should be about 90% of her final height so it does appear she is behind her expected height by about a hand (10cm). As Helen alludes to this may just be a small horse. However foals that are deprived nutritionally for a while often develop a bit later and still make close to their expected height so we will keep our fingers crossed. There is little you can do but continue good feeding practices and what you are doing now seems fine if her overall condition is good. I am a little confused by your statements that she is not in good flesh in your first post and then in your second you say she looks fine except size (height?).
The one important aspect of her diet that is hard to evaluate in the calcium / phosphorous balance. It is likely to be minimally OK from the ingredients but I cannot be sure.
DrO
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 8:36 am:
Thanks
Yes, I know I contradicted myself by saying shes not good in flesh and then she is, This might sound funny but she is half and half!
Her upper body above her shoulder level is now reasonably well covered with no prominent bones. It is her lower body particularly her legs and upto her shoulders that are particulary bad at not putting on flesh. You can see and feel all the bones and her skin on her legs is just a light covering over the bones. It might just be that she is very petite.
I`ll try and upload some photos of her so you can see for yourself.
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 9:00 am:
Hopefully here are some photos:-
These were taken when I first had her in March. Oh, Just realised I meant her rug is only 3ft6 so you can imagine she is only tiny.  
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 9:10 am:
Here is two more recent photos of her taken in June. Looking much better but still very small.
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Member:
Missa
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 9:13 am:
Here is her best yet for condition,this was taken in July.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 9:24 am:
Gosh, Missa,
She's come a long way. Looks like you've done a GREAT job. The flesh will build on her legs as she gets exercise and continued good nutrition. From the photo, I think you folks are doing just fine.
Holly
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Member:
Swarnick
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Posted on Friday, Aug 1, 2003 - 9:31 am:
Hi Missa,
Yes, she is looking wonderful and you are doing a great job with her. She has definately come a long way since the first picture. I don't think you have anything to worry about and hopefully, she may have a growth spurt later as Dr. O. mentioned.
Shirley
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 2, 2003 - 8:53 am:
Missa,
I have been following this discussion with interest,and want to thank you for adding the pictures. She's coming along great, don't worry. We bought a filly June 4th who was supposed to be a yearling quarter horse. She was so thin, her neck was like a board, her ribs, backbone and hip bones stuck out. Her feet had never been trimmed, her winter coat stuck out on her everywhere. Now, she looks like your later pictures. She's also very fine boned on her legs, and has a dainty head. I think you may have answered my question about her parentage, maybe she has Welch in her also! I am wondering how this filly of yours moves? Ours seems really smooth, hardly skims the ground, but not Arab like. She's 12.3 tall now, so a little bigger than yours. Hey Dr. O., do we have any info on this site for helping decipher unknown parentage?  Good luck Missa, and enjoy your filly!!!
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