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Discussion on Ideas to Build Up Underweight Horse
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2003 - 11:45 am:
Last summer, my 2 year-old gelding seemed to DrOp a lot of weight due to the poor grazing conditions in the pasture (DrOught). At the time he was on pasture board at the boarding facility and since I am new to this I didn't think this would include any supplemental feeding. I am quite sure the owner of the facility noticed the weight loss however, but chose not to do anything about it. I believe now, after reading all there is on this webpage regarding poor weight condition, that Cutter should have been put on a grain supplement and possibly even hay added to his grass diet. By fall, his weight was in category 4, moderately thin. Towards the middle of October, the owner put Cutter into a smaller pasture, along with four yearlings, where he was fed a moderate quality hay and given twice daily grain supplements.
In early November, the owner approached me and said she was worried that Cutter had a health problem. She observed him standing for long periods of time, without eating anything. She felt with all the available food he was being given, that he should be putting weight on, and instead he was losing weight. By this time, his weight was in category 3, thin. We decided to put him in a pen alone, in case he was being dominated by the other horses and too intimidated to eat (he tends to be easily intimidated). After a week alone, the owner approached me about calling a vet because he was not gaining and was steadily losing weight. She observed he was eating very slowly and not finishing all the food he was being given. The vet came out to the farm on Dec. 2nd. At that time, Cutter had three caps removed and had his teeth floated. The vet felt optimistic that tooth problems were the cause of his poor eating and recommended he be given rice bran in addition to grain three times daily, to help build up his weight. He has been receiving the rice bran since then and the owner and I continued to observe him the next week. We both thought he was eating better. I noticed an improvement in his overall attitude, especially when I trail road (walking only) the Saturday after the vet visit.
During this time, I found a new boarding facility that is much closer to my home. We decided to go ahead and move Cutter to the new facility the following weekend. That was yesterday, and the move went very well. The owner of the new facility however, is appalled at Cutter's condition and seems to feel it is the fault of the previous owner. I am feeling terribly guilty for either not doing anything myself (lack of knowledge) or not moving him sooner. I do feel he is in a better facility now, and I am hoping he will steadily improve. My question is in regard to weight gain, and what else I might do to help him gain weight. We live in northern Wisconsin and are dealing with cold and wet weather conditions. I am having him kept indoors at night, with turnout only on good weather days. Do you think the owner of the former facility was negligent in any way? Do you think "pasture board" means only being fed grass during the summer.
Thanks for your input.
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2003 - 2:08 pm:
Hello Linda,
Is it safe for us to assume the picture of Cutter in you profile was taken this last summer?
First, this horse is growing. My now 4 ½ year old, foxtrotter gelding, went from an average size of 15.2h to 16.3h (at last measure, probably 17h now  )in what seemed like overnight. And of course at 4 ½ he is still growing himself. He was an eating machine during that time let me tell you. Still does really, at 1250lbs he eats half again as much as my 1000lb horses. Personally I don’t think grass hay is sufficient for a growing horse. But you didn’t tell us how much hay or what type you’ve been feeding lately. Dr O. has good articles on feeding all age horses.
Second, you didn’t mention what kind of worming program the last barn had or the new barn for that matter. Very important, there again Dr. O has excellent articles that cover worming programs and drugs.
Could you post a recent photo, Cutter is lean in your profile photo but not that bad in my opinion. A little lean is much preferred at this age vs. over weight.
Third, you already address the dental problems; good job! A lot of people don’t pay attention to, or miss, teeth problems and have a lot of trouble because of it.
If you could follow-up with more information others here can offer more detailed advice. Like, the number of pounds of feed daily and types of feed? Supplements? Pasture and type of grass planted? How much Cutter weighs?
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2003 - 4:12 pm:
Alden,
My inexperience may show here, so forgive me. When Cutter was in the pasture with the yearlings, they put large, round, bales of hay in and the horses could eat at will. The hay quality looked moderate to poor, based on DrO's article regarding feed. The color was mostly light brown with little green. At that time, Cutter was also receiving the equivalent of 1/2 large coffe can of 12% sweet feed, mixed by our local feed mill, twice daily. This appears to be mostly oats. The pasture he was in during summer is 20 acres, with an average of 8 to 10 horses on it. I don't know what type of grass it is, it just looks like ordinary grass to me. The pasture is not maintained in a manner recommended by DrO, as it is weedy where manure DrOps so the horses don't graze all of it.
Once Cutter was moved off to himself, his sweet feed increased to the same ration, fed three times daily. The quality of hay improved as the bales contained some alfalfa and were greener in color. They still seemed to contain a lot of stalks and I thought they were probably cut late in the year (based on what I've read here). I was told he was getting all the hay he would eat, but I think that was approximately 1 bale each day. I don't know the poundage per bale. In addition, the barn owner recommended I purchase and give a vitamin supplement, and that was being done as well. I think the brand is called Vita-Maac made by Albion Laboratories.
As far as worming, he was wormed in October after our first hard frost. It is the general, local opinion here that worming need only be done after a hard frost and again in late spring. That seems less than what I am reading on this site, but I have heard it done in this manner by several local people.
I do think Cutter has been growing at a fast rate and has gone from 14.2 to nearly 15.2 since June, with his last big growth spurt occuring in October and November. As far as his weight, I will have to investigate this further, as I don't know. I am also going to try and get a recent picture posted. You are correct that the one on my profile is from last summer. He is much thinner now.
Thank you for your help.
Linda
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Member:
Alden
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2003 - 5:45 pm:
Linda,
Inexperience is completely excusable, especially when you looking for the experience. You’d be surprised by how many don’t know, don’t care until the horse doesn’t work and then just find another. Besides the journey is heck of lot of fun IMO.
Rule out medical, sounds like you’re getting there with the teeth. You may need to be more aggressive with the worming; something to run past your vet.
Scales aren’t very expensive, I’d strongly recommend you get one and weigh everything. It is really hard to know what to change when you really don’t have a good starting point.
When I first started out people told me “feed them a couple flakes morning and night”. So that is what I did, but I got curious. The flakes didn’t seem the same to me, so I got a scale and what an eye opener. Out of the same bale there was a 3-8 lb variance between flakes, I didn’t even check to see what the difference might be between bales; I got a decent scale and weigh everything. And it is TRIPLE, QUADRUPLE, important when feeding grain. Just look at Dr. O’s article and the feed stuff chart that shows energy and see the difference between oats and corn.
Those must be really, really light bales or there is absolutely no nutrition in them. Even light bales here were in the 50-60lb range. I don’t think my big gelding could stretch himself around 50lbs of hay (I know he couldn’t because he couldn’t eat everything when I reached 35lb per day)!
I would expect Cutter to be eating around 22-26 lbs per day, I have know idea how much 3 coffee cans of oats is but it sounds like a lot. I think Dr. O’s article mentions corn oil, that can really put the weight on but be careful and start slow and build him up. It would be safer than feeding corn, but corn will put weight on also; just be sure to WEIGH it and be really care.
I looked at Dr. O’s article “Nutritional Content of Common Feedstuffs for Horses” and I don’t see how rice bran would help in addition to oats as oats has more energy than rice bran anyhow. The hay looks like the likely culprit here, as long as worms or other medical problems are ruled out. Dr. O will probably have some more info in this matter.
Alden
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Member:
Lhenning
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2003 - 8:49 pm:
It sounds like I have some investigating to do regarding how much feed Cutter is eating.
There is some confusion here as I did not mean he was getting three coffee cans of oats per day, but rather 1 1/2 cans per day, which is given as 1/2 can full, three times each day. That is interesting there is such a difference in weight between different bales of hay. It does seem those must have been light bales, because I could lift them and I am not all that strong. I would guess they were less than 50lbs, but that would mean he was probably eating a half bale per day, less before the vet worked on his teeth and more afterward.
I have updated the photo on my profile, which I took tonight. There is a big difference in Cutter's back legs, which are now rather sunken and have more bone showing than they did last summer. He also has more of his backbone and ribs showing.
I do feel good about the change I've made in his boarding situation. I went to visit him tonight, and the new barn owner had a blanket on him. He has never had a blanket on before, but she thinks it will help him conserve warmth and burn less energy, thus helping him gain weight. Seems like a good idea to me, under the circumstances.
Linda
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2003 - 6:26 am:
Rice bran is considered a concentrated source of energy though is very variable depending on the amount of fat present. The article associated with this forum, » Care for Horses » Nutrition » Bran: Wheat and Rice, addresses this and has some warnings about the calcium phosphorous balance. If you feed a lot of this you need to pay attention. Alden gives lots of good advice but read the article on Overview of Nutrtion and the articles on Deworming to come to understand these subjects. Lastly it is normal for horses to not eat well and loose a little when first moved but it does sound like you have found someone who is going to really help you.
DrO
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