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  Discussion on Behavior in regards to herd dynamics
Author Message
Member:
adriaa

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 4, 2007 - 2:54 pm:

Hi all, I hope everyone is having a nice 4th, (well those of you in the US, that is).
I have had an interesting thought, and I could be way off base.

Could herd dynamics affect the behavior of certain horses, ie: could a horse be more comfortable being a low rank, or a top rank and could it transfer over to general behavior.

I just moved my horse, to a closer barn, with more people my age, a little more happening than my old barn, which I liked, but was too far away and I always sort of felt that my girl was theirs and I rode her. So, I'm reallllly happy I moved, it was a bit like leaving home for the first time, but I feel I have so much more control over my horse. Anyway, my mare is not a dominant mare, where she was before I bought her she was in with a lot of mares, and she was kind of low. When I bought her and brought her to my old barn, just because of who went with who she ended up being top mare, in a herd of two, because the other mare was really low with the mare she was with previously.

Now, she is in with 2 mares and she is on the bottom again, but I think she's happier. Maybe the responsibility of being top mare was too much and her personality dictates she be under someone.

I know that I'm not the boss type and put in that position makes me nervous. So maybe it's the same for horses. She seems more relaxed, even in a new barn, or maybe I'm more relaxed so she is.

Just musing, always trying to figure out what's going on between her ears...
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 4, 2007 - 3:42 pm:

Hi Adria,

I agree with your observation that subservient horses seem stressed if they get put in a situation where they end up on top. I have also noticed that these "circumstantial leaders" can be horrible bullies. It seems reasonable to think that a follower-type would find it worrying to have to make decisions etc..

I have the opposite problem-- a herd of extremely dominant mares-- and that can also create stress and bad behavior

I'm glad the new setup suits your mare.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 9:58 am:

I agree with you Adria, I've seen many horses accept happily or even search for a leader. They seemed much more relaxed under the 'care ' of a dominant horse. My most dominant mare almost never bites or hurt another horse but if one of the others misbehaves to another she immediately puts the 'offender ' on its place.
With her around I can feed up to six horses with nobody biting or misbehaving and just calmly eating there rations. The others obey but seem to feel relaxed and comfortable at the same time.
If she goes away her brother takes over, a little more excitement in the group but stil nobody misbehaves[the others are all lower ranking horses] take the both of them away and everybody seems to'sleep badly' little fights occur and they seem less relaxed.
Jos
Member:
zarr

Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 11:11 am:

There is no question in our herd our arab gelding is #1, no matter what herd he has been in. But Pest came in low ranked and has remained that way except she puts her nose in a corner and NOBODY challenges her. She also rules over the chickens and other birds so she is not dead last. A mare at my friends came in at such a low level mare from her first herd that she was skinny because she was not allowed to eat.However at my friends that changed and she became head mare and a terror to all including humans. She is the only horse that I considered truly dangerous! Cindy
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 11:21 am:

Not all dominant horses are good for their 'herds' are they? Perhaps that depends on wheater they are naturally dominant or dominant by lack of another more dominant horse?
Jos
Member:
corinne

Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 11:44 am:

My Arab is always the lowest and really takes a liking to being put in with yearlings where he can be top horse. In our new barn he shares an adjacent paddock with a mare and her weanling who has just been separated from Mama on Fri. Mama was also in the next stall and now the weanling is with another 3 months old filly and Mama is two stalls down. He really likes them. In fact he breaks out in a sweat when they are not around and I can tell that I have to work these issues out with him immediately so he is not bound to them. We were riding the other night at dinner and he was so not paying attention to me but at dinner time he usually never did so I hope it was just a timing thing rather than him being upset he wasn't near the babies or Mama.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 1:15 pm:

I've noticed many bonds over the years with our horses. I know my one mare, the oldest, always has to have a gelding to bond with. She has no time for the other gelding or mare. I guess she's the herd boss, but not sure she likes her role.

The 2 geldings play together, but one is the leader, the other one is always licking and chewing and "asking to play". It may sound silly but I hate selling a horse and breaking up the ties between the horses. I don't know what poor Cody will do if I ever sell Tango. The other younger mare, Gem, doesn't seem to know how to play. She's never showed any signs of playfulness nor have I ever noticed her grooming another horse or being groomed the way they do that to each other. I worry about that.

I have found that having one really dominant mare is a pain. I've had a couple that just constantly stirred things up and sold both of them to keep things peaceful.
Member:
erika

Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 7:31 pm:

Angie, your description hit a note with me. Timmy, the old man of the farm, doesn't seem to know how to play either. I've known him for over twenty years personally. He's always been low man on the totem pole, but he seems to prefer that.
He will walk away from the lowliest of newcomers with a mug on his face, and ears looking grouchy. Yet he really likes to lurk on the edges of the herd. Anyone leaves the property and Timmy is the one that bellows and gallops the fence line til they return--go figure.
I think it's just easier than trying to assert himself and taking the chance that he could be hurt or chased off and "lose face". It's like "If I don't act like I want it...I won't look silly when I don't get it"!
Member:
imogen

Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 2:25 am:

My two year old is currently boss of the herd because her mammy is away at stud. She's being a total b***h! Yet when she is down the pecking order she's the nicest animal you could wish to meet. She seems to feel insecure and therefore must prove her dominance constantly. Everyone will be happy when mammy returns...

One thing I find fascinating is that good bosses like mammy are usually also very good when required to be subservient - when we had an extremely aggressive cob here one winter, she accepted no. 2 position without any difficulty and as soon as he went, she picked up where she left off. I wonder, are dominant horses sharper at picking up vibes and adapting, like good human managers?

Imogen
Member:
adriaa

Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 8:47 pm:

Thanks for the input. I really think she is more relaxed in her new position. When she first arrived the boss mare was pretty mean to her, but poor Rose, she was flagrantly in season, was pestering and winking at the geldings across the fence, which probably didn't help matters. Things have settled down, they all eat together and she's fine. So I think there are horses who just aren't cut out to be boss and some are. I know she will never challenge the position.
Member:
ilona

Posted on Saturday, Jul 7, 2007 - 8:23 am:

I try to do personality matches with my herd. My one mare is very submissive and it took a while to find where to best put her. She too would loose weight when with a certain mix. I finally came up with the right combo and it now works out very well. I generally have 2 horses per coral yet the best mix is her with 2 others and and one gelding on his own. He still thinks he is a stud, yet was cut young. Its just who he is. He's a fabulous and dependable ride though and gets on well with all horses when under saddle.
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