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Discussion on "Banana" shoes -- need advice
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New Member:
Adonelan
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 1:51 pm:
I'm struggling with whether to approach my farrier and vet about the current shoes my horse has on. I've had the horse for 9 months; prior to that he was shod with flat (regular) shoes. Radiographs showed thin front soles when I purchased. He had a check ligament injury in December which is healing nicely (good ultrasounds, good rehab work)
Switched farriers for several reasons, indicated to the current farrier that I did not want banana shoes (something he is known to promote) on the horse. Six weeks ago (third shoeing with this farrier) a mild banana goes on, raising the heel slightly. I asked why he thought this was necessary; the answer was "to take the pressure off the nerves and blood vessels and get more circulation in the feet." The horse actually moved better with the mild banana than with the previous shoes, so I wasn't too upset about it. I asked our soundness vet (who in Dec with the check ligament injury didn't want the banana shoes) if she was OK with the shoes and she said yes, but she wouldn't want to see them higher.
This latest shoeing (1 week ago) the shoes end up being a more pronounced banana and the horse seems quite uncomfortable in them. Not unsound, just not happy and his stride seems shorter. He looks like he's standing on tiptoe and that his knee and shoulder are constrained by the raised heel. My trainer is concerned about this type of shoeing putting more strain on tendons and ligaments when galloping and jumping (not that we're ready to do that *yet* as we've just recently been cleared to increase the canter rehab work to 6 mins/day!) I'm concerned b/c the horse seems uncomfortable and I'm worried about messing up his lovely conformation.
I'd like to understand why or why not to use the banana shoes on a 7yo horse with a check ligament injury that is rehabing nicely, used for eventing when fully rehabbed, and has great conformation other than thin soles. Oh yeah, he also has equipack (sp?) pads on the front to protect his soles.
Many thanks for any technical information and advice on how to approach this sensitive issue with a team of professionals each who thinks they know what's best! I just want a sound, healthy, happy horse for the long term! 
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 2:52 pm:
Hello Anne,
Welcome to Horse Advice! The advice that I have to offer is this:
Don't struggle any longer about approaching your vet and farrier. The three of you have to work together in keeping your horse sound and healing this injury.
I have had a personal experience with designer shoes and they did not help my horse. I cannot be sure whether the farrier was not completely trained in this method or this shoe was not good for my horse.
I have gone through a few farriers in my horse's lifetime because of new geographical location or they just didn't know what they were doing and horse was getting lamer.
Perhaps you could ask your vet about a farrier that he/she works with.
Who do you trust the most? The vet or the farrier?
Do not be afraid to phone the vet or the farrier and say their recommendations have now made my horse more lame.
The bottom line is that you need a good working team for your sound, healthy and happy horse.
I have been there and done that.
Dr.O might be able to advise you or direct you about check ligament injuries.
Sorry about the soapbox reply. It just touches a nerve when a farrier claims what is good for one horse must be good for them all.
Hope this helps,
Susan B.
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Member:
Adonelan
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 4:00 pm:
Hi Susan,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. This is the farrier that my soundness vet works closely with. She also likes the banana shoes.  I am very interested in what Dr. O's thoughts are. I definitely want to work this out with the pair (trio if you include my trainer!) because the vet is second to none in the area for soundness and the farrier is very good *and* quite responsible/professional in terms of showing up and calling back.
Thanks!
Anne
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 4:49 pm:
Welcome, Anne,
I think this is very simple. If both you and your trainer can see restriction in the horse's way of going and your vet or farrier can not give you a good reason why this has been done on purpose, I believe you should have those shoes removed.
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 5:29 pm:
Hi All, Don't want to appear "dumb", but what are "banana" shoes? Anything like Rick Redden's Rocker Shoes? Just curious. Shirl
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Member:
Adonelan
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 5:51 pm:
Shirl,
I don't know if they are the same thing as rocker shoes or not. Basically, they are a U shaped shoe if you look at them from the top or bottom, but instead of being flat from toe to heel when you look at them from the side, they have an upward curve (not a wedge, but a curve) from the back third of the hoof to the heel. Kind a swoop up to the heel so the heel of the shoe is higher than the toe. You cannot rock over the middle of the foot onto the toe as the curve is more toward the heel but you can definitely rock back on the heel or stand on the toe.
Anne
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 11:00 pm:
Shirley-so glad you asked. I've never heard the term before either. Maybe it's a regional term?
At any rate, for what it's worth (probably not much) I'd agree with Christos. If the horse seemed to move better before the change, and the vet & farrier (together) have no good reason for the different shoe, I'd go back to what the horse was wearing before.
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 11:45 pm:
Here is a link to a picture of the "Banana Shoe"
www.nanric.com/Images/banana.JPG
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 10:59 am:
Thanks Susan for the link. They look a lot like Ric Redden's Rocker Shoe, infact, may be the same as I think that is his web site. At any rate, thanks for your time.
Shirl
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 11:50 am:
Shirl,
I think they are one and the same. Go to www.nanric.com for the complete web site. It is interesting to note that there are no nail holes in this shoe. Are they glue ons maybe? I couldn't seem to find any specific instructions on how to apply. What I could find out was they are beneficial to thin soled horses. Not sure about the other application though. Check ligament injury.
Cheers,
Susan B.
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 12:07 pm:
Susan, Well now that's an interesting observation!
Sierra's are nailed on!I know the ones he has used are $49 each. ACK! He reset them once, thankfully. She has 4 difficult feet to shoe, fronts are not alike, so ends up with two different shoes, and each time he comes tries something different. She's a problem child in the fact that she has a deteriorating navicular bone on the R. and an adhesion on the L flexor tendon. However; since my vet suggested using this guy, Sierra has been able to live without Bute the past two years, whereas prior, she was on 2 grams a day. I'll pay more attention to what else he does. He's so good about coming, doing, and communicating with my vet, leaving me a note and bill and it's done. Thanks for your info also, Shirl
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 2, 2004 - 1:37 pm:
Treat this farrier like "Gold" Shirl. If it takes custom made, gold plated shoes complete with Italian Leather pads to keep my guy from being ow, ow, ow with every step my farrier can charge me whatever he likes. You're also very lucky that your farrier is willing to take the time and figure your horse out. The team work of vet, farrier and owner/trainer is the horse's best line of defence in getting and staying sound. I hear ya about those front heel problems. We're here and doing this.
Cheers,
Susan B.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 3, 2004 - 9:58 am:
Boy! Is Susan ever right about treating your farrier like gold. I'd about kill for a really good farrier. I had one when in California, but haven't been able to find one since moving to Utah. Adaquit is the best I can do. The man I have is reliable and does a "good" job, but he treats all my Arabs like they are Quarter Horses and they have totally different shaped feet. If I don't watch it, my horses' feet get smaller and smaller, and I worry about them being balanced also. However, he is the 6th or 7th farrier I've had in 10 yrs. I went through 3 in the first few months I lived here. One was so bad I had him leave after trimming just one foot! At least the fellow I use now will work with me (and the vet) and that is half the battle. So, when your farrer comes, have freshly made coffee and banana bread, or ice tea and cookies when it's warm, offer him a cold beer when he's done....whatever it takes! (I also ply my vet with home made goodies.)
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 3, 2004 - 11:43 am:
Hi Sara and Susan, You gals just tickle me to death. Yes, I know how lucky I am and it was quite by accident (almost literally) that I got this guy. My horse was such a mess a year ago, my vet was at a loss as to what to do so we shipped her to the Vet Hospital in Gilbert AZ where she had scans done, and that's where it was determined she had inflammed coffin bones in the rear, deteriorating Navicular bone in the R. front. Specialized shoeing was the only option, and my regular ferrier that had been 'messing' her up had recently had surgery, so he was out of commission. Consequently my Vet got in contact with my present ferrier who wasn't even taking new customers, but he agreed to take on Sierra. Up until the time he began working on her, she had been on Bute 2x a day for 2 years due to the adhesion she had in the L. front. No more Bute after he began, though she is now getting a little more sore when trotting on hard ground, so I suspect the N. bone is slowly giving away. She (from the legs up) looks like 10 and has that personality also. She's half Arab/Qt and a happy, personable horse. Just sad she's got such bad legs/feet. Thanks for your thoughts. I generally give the guy a tip and large Christmas gift. She's at a boarding stable and he comes and goes quickly while I'm at work. But yes, I know how lucky I am. Best to you both,Shirl
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jun 4, 2004 - 7:40 am:
Hello Ann,
Sorry for the delay in answering, we were unexpectedly disconnected from Internet access while we were traveling last week.
What needs to occur in trimming and shoeing is a proper hoof / pastern axis as described in our articles Care for Horses » Hoof Care » Trimming and Preparing the Feet for Shoes. If the farrier is elevating the heel to where this axis is broken, he needs to readjust.
Concerning the use of a "banana shoe" for this I am uncertain as to the reasoning. The shoe was designed for the horse with laminitis with the idea that where the horse is most comfortable is the best place for him to be. With the rocker of the shoe he could adjust the standing hoof angle. There is one reason I can see it's use in a suspensory desmitis and that is improved breakover but depending on application the lack of heel support would concern me.
I strongly agree with the recomendation above that best is to get the vet and farrier together.
DrO
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Member:
Adonelan
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Posted on Monday, Jun 7, 2004 - 11:46 am:
Hi DrO,
Thanks for your reply. After thinking about it, I called our vet again and said "if we both think it's the shoes why wait another week and a half for confirmation -- are you OK with having the farrier reset flats?" and the vet was amenable to that. Bad news is I have to wait until mid-week this week for an appointment with the farrier.
I just don't see how the "banana" shoes could be applied in this situation. There's no laminitis and the horse is in work not just standing around. Which (*if* I understand the mechanics of the shoe correctly) means additional strain is put on the check ligament b/c of the rocker on the back of the shoe when the horse is in motion. Not something I want while protecting a high check ligament injury!
I took a look at his axis (axes?) after reading the article. They are to my eye slightly broken. Hopefully this will all be fixed by the end of this week.
Thanks again to everyone for their input. This forum is a wonderful resource.
Anne
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