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Discussion on Shoeing or protective boots
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Member:
Michland
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 5, 2004 - 11:35 am:
I have recently become interested in Competitive Trail Riding. These rides are usually 25 miles in length over varying terrain and the speed averages 6 mph. My horse has always had very good hard feet, and has never been shod. However, when I entered my first ride, 2 weeks ago, at the first vet check, after the first 12 mile loop, he had a stone bruise and we could not continue. I need to either shoe him or purchase protective boots for the next ride as well as to condition prior to the next ride. As I have no experience with shoeing or with boots (easy boots, old macs, etc.) I would welcome any information and suggestions! Thank you!
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Member:
Michland
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 5, 2004 - 2:09 pm:
Just to clarify my previous post: which would be better - to shoe him or purchase some type of boots?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 6, 2004 - 5:47 pm:
Having adapted 6 horses from shoes to boots to bare feet (in most cases) I can tell you there is no universal answer here. While some of our horses do very well in Easy Boots, most loose them on occasion, and while most of our horses do very well with Old Macs, some become irritated behind the pastern and one horse has managed to turn his boot around 180 degrees (twice), though a smaller boot will not fit and we have put the inserts in. If you are willing to experiment and allow some time for learning and adjustment you may find Old Macs will work for you. If you need something that works tomorrow I would shoe him.
DrO
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New Member:
Titan
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2004 - 12:23 am:
I have a related hypothetical question. I have a 3 year old which was being worked with daily. He was lame at the trot and sometimes "ouchy" at the walk on hard or rocky gound. He has not been worked for a week and is slightly better, but still lame. One possibility is that he has a stone bruise. I am having the farrier out later this week. Here is the question. If the diagnosis is a stone bruise, what is the chance that shoeing him will allow him to return to work? Assuming that it is a stone bruise, would you even want to put him back to work right away even if the shoing appeared to make him sound? Thank you
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2004 - 6:23 am:
There are stone bruises and then there are STONE BRUISES. There are rides then there are RIDES. I cannot come up with a universal answer here. A mild bruise and a good farrier could get you through some light riding but the first sign of worsening needs to be heeded and you may be walking back to the barn.
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Member:
Michland
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 24, 2004 - 8:51 pm:
Dr.O: Your statement that "Having adapted 6 horses from shoes to boots to bare feet (in most cases)" makes me wonder if I really need either shoes or boots. I have owned this horse for seven years, and can ride him for miles on gravel with bare feet and no problems. However, before the ride mentioned, doing conditioning rides of 10-12 miles 3-4 times a week, his feet had worn a fair amount. The farrier trimmed his feet 2 days before the competitive trail ride and as I mentioned earlier, he bruised a rear foot. I know you can't see his feet, but what is your opinion: do you think that the fresh trim was the culprit in this case, or do you think that any horse putting on this many miles requires some type of foot protection? I would consider purchasing Old Macs if necessary, but this is already a great barefoot horse. Thanks for the input!
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 24, 2004 - 9:14 pm:
Hi,
Just wanted to add my imput here. After riding my 7 year old always barefoot I found he was always tender after trimming , so I used boots (old macs) for a week. I have come to the conclusion after a few different farriers they all trimmed him as a shod horse. Too short.
Katrina
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004 - 7:27 am:
Ditto to Katrin'a post above but we can rule this out in your case Michelle for 2 reasons: it was just one foot and it was a back foot. The tenderness and if pushed bruising from a recent trim is bilateral and the front feet first. Yours sounds more like a stone bruise. Did the trimming make the foot more easily bruised, probably but the history does not support the trim as the cause.
Concerning bare vs boot vs shoes my origninal post still applies. If the feet wear away quicker than they are replaced, protection will be necessary.
DrO
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Member:
Michland
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004 - 11:18 am:
Thanks, Dr. O and Katrina. That makes perfect sense. Now, the question is Old Mac sizing. I know there are already discussions on this topic, but I have a question that hasn't been posed as of yet. My gelding measures for a size 4 in width and size 7 in length. According to sizing directions, I should purchase size 7 and inserts. However,I have a pair of size 3's that I tried on him last night and they fit perfectly in the width - his foot was completely down into the boot. As for length, it was hard to tell, but the rear of the hoof appeared to be back on the leather part. Does this hurt either the hoof or the boot? Should I consider getting a size 4? 5? 6?
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004 - 11:40 am:
hi Michelle,
I would contact the old mac site and give them your horses measurements after a fresh trim. They would be able to help you. I was lucky my horses feet were the exact shape of the sizing chart. They fit him like a glove.
Good luck
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Member:
Belhaven
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2004 - 8:29 am:
I would also suggest looking into the Boa Boots---they have improved the design and are being released this week...
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Member:
Cowgrl
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2004 - 12:00 pm:
I looked at the Boa boots before I bought the Old Macs. The thing I didn't like about the Boas was before going through deep mud or water, you were supposed to get down off your horse and tighten them up. That would get old very fast; there is no way I'm going to get down and tighten boots every time I went through mud here in the rainy NW! Hopefully the new Boa design will eliminate this need. The Old Macs stayed on and didn't shift through any types of conditions and I didn't have to adjust them at all.
Michelle, the Old Mac website has a list of "advisors" that will come out and fit your horse with the correct size. That's what I did just so I didn't make an error in measuring. It didn't cost me anything - just the cost of the boots. Something to think about.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 2004 - 5:21 pm:
Michelle;
I know there hasn't been much more discussion on this subject for awhile ..... and it appears you are leaning toward the boots. But as a competitive/endurance rider for the past 21 years .... I have yet to see a consistent, frequent finisher (at least in the mid-west where I'm from) who uses only boots. As a rule, most people shoe and carry the boots as a "spare tire". That is what I do, and have never needed a boot yet. (probably just jinxed myself though). But also know, the shoes will not "save" you from another bruise ... only make is less likely. Shoes with pads are your best protection ... but I have never really found it necessary to use pads. I have one horse who cannot be ridden on rocks for about a week after being shod or he will be "ouchy" and lame. This horse has flat (platter type) feet.
It sounds like your horse has tough feet. I would think, if you are serious about competing, you should consider a good shoeing job instead.
Just my opinion and my observations.
Good luck!
Lisa
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Member:
Michland
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Posted on Friday, Aug 27, 2004 - 1:35 pm:
Thanks, Lisa. Its great to hear from someone who has experience on these type of rides. I'm not really seeking to be competitive - just would like to participate on 2-3 rides a season for fun. For that reason, I have hesitated on shoeing because he hasn't needed shoes for any other reason. He is not tender-footed, and has never had a stone-bruise before. The terrain on the ride mentioned had softball size and larger rocks here and there, half-buried in the dirt. I suppose he trotted over one of those.I wonder how it would go leaving him barefoot, and just being careful during the conditioning to not wear his feet down too much (keeping down the gravel miles). Or do you think some type of foot protection is a must for anyone doing these kind of rides? He is a very sweet and willing horse, and I want to do whats best for him.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Friday, Aug 27, 2004 - 5:18 pm:
Michelle;
I do encourage you to compete... even if it's just a few .... that's how some of us got so hooked. But if you are going to condition enough to be prepared, even for a few rides I don't think that it would be advisable to remain barefoot. The wear and tear issue is the reason. My horses generally compete from April through Oct. Our shoes generally wear quite a bit and we don't do a lot of road riding or rocky footing. (however we do ride in sand often....I suppose that's just as abrasive) My husband is rarely able to re-use a set of shoes after only about 4 to 5 weeks between shoeings. So, if a metal shoe wears that much you can be sure a hoof will. Of course you don't intend to do quite as much competing, but I think you would find the wear and tear still to be a problem. Have you ever considered the sythetic shoes? (i.e. Ground Control) They are lighter, and more like going barefoot .... although finding a farrier to apply them correctly can be difficult (and expensive). My husband tried applying them once, but found it very difficult to clinch the nails properly without buying a very expensive "special" farrier's tool so we went back to steel shoes. But a horse definitley goes better barefoot than shod. (i.e. interference and length of stride, concussion on legs etc ...) I know many people who have used both kinds of boots that you mentioned (at one time or another when they've lost a shoe) on rides and heard good things about both. They have saved many a ride for many of my friends. I have also seen my share of them on the trail when they fell off ....
Good luck ..... if you need info on Competitive (or Endurance) riding let me know. I can give some nice web sites to check into.
Lisa
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Friday, Aug 27, 2004 - 8:35 pm:
Lisa,
Hi I would love to see some of the web sites you mentioned. I am thinking of doing competitive trail riding. My mum in Australia has bred some international winners in endurance. The arab guys that win all over the world keep trying to buy her stallion. 2 horses she bred sold for over $100,000.
Anyway I want to get back into it after years away.
Katrina
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 28, 2004 - 3:29 pm:
Katrina;
I couldn't tell by your post wether you are in the US or Australia. Either way, there are distance riding organizations in both places. Unfortuneatley I don't have many sites that would apply if you are from Australia. But here are some that would be good in the US:
www.endurance.net}
This is a general site, but for endurance riding only.
www.aerc.org
This is the site for the American Endurance Riding Conference.
www.iaha.com
This is the site for the Arabian Horse Assoc. they have distance programs and sponsor rides as well.
www.Ahdra1.com
This is the site for the Arabian Horse Distance Riding Assoc.
www.angelfire.com/wi2/apdra/
This is the site for the Appaloosa Distance Riding Assoc.
Here are links to a bunch of local/regional US distance riding associations:
www.umecra.com
Upper Midwest Endurance & Competitive Riding Assoc. This site also has links to DRAW - Distance Riding Assoc. of Wisconsin & MNDRA - Minnesota Distance Riding Assoc.
www.ectra.org
Eastern Competitive Trail Ride Assoc.
www.gldra.org
Great Lakes Distance Riding Assoc.
www.Natrc.org
North American Trail Ride Conference
www.distanceriding.com
This is the site for SEDRA; South Eastern Distance Riders Assoc.
www.oaats.org
Ohio Arabian & All Breed Trail Society
www.tadra.org
Texas Arabian Distance Riding Assoc.
Hope this list helps you and any others who are interested. What I would suggest is contacting the distance organization which is closest to where you live. They can help you with ride shedules and all the other details.
Good Luck! Hope to see you on the trails someday.
Lisa
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Member:
Kthorse
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 28, 2004 - 5:35 pm:
Thanks Lisa,
I am now in NJ USA.
Thanks for the sites
Katrina
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Member:
Tatonka
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2005 - 1:01 pm:
I am considering using a boot on one hind foot of a thin walled horse to promote some hoof growth. My farrier has suggested this as an alternative for a horse he has been working with for almost a year now.
Has anyone else used a boot for this purpose? I am concerned that they will not stay on and I will have a bigger problem. Is there a boot that might work better for that purpose?
Any help is appreciated!
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Member:
Doroann
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 12, 2005 - 3:27 pm:
Hi Debra - I have a barefoot morgan mare who has a club foot, making her difficult to fit with boots. I find the Old Macs are the most user-friendly, and even though her hoof has an odd shape they stay on nicely (with inserts) and cause her no sores or problems. For the problem hoof - have you thought of using venice turpentine to toughen up her sole?
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Member:
Tatonka
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Posted on Monday, Mar 14, 2005 - 11:06 am:
Thanks for the info. Do you leave her boot on all the time?
I just started using a product to toughen his sole and will put himback on a hoof supplement.
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