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Discussion on What style of barefoot?
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Member:
Redmare
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Posted on Friday, Sep 3, 2004 - 9:37 am:
Hi All-
I'm a new member and also posted in the Clicker Training section. I do natural hoof trimming in California. I never intended to do this, as it's darn hard work, but I had bad luck with farriers and couldn't get someone to trim the way I wanted. So, you know how the saying goes! Started doing it for myself, then friends, then it became a business.
I see from reading the posts that many of you keep your horses barefoot, and was wondering what style of trim you use? I basically do the Jaime Jackson style; I say basically because I've never been to his clinics, as they are several states away  . Also, as time passes I learn more from experience and tweak the trim as needed for my particular climate.
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 4, 2004 - 12:14 am:
i gave my farrier a printout from jacksons book. I find that most farriers will just do a standard pasture trim and know nothing nor want to know anything about new fangled trims. Although i have to say he did understand about 4 point trimming. And what a mustang roll was. So after the printout he does a modified pasture trim. 
I have had my horse barefoot for a few years now. she's never looked better. and healthier. And since i started doing this while she was boarded, i felt that Strasser was too radical in theory. Maybe, now that i am living on my own and she is out 24/7 i might consdider trying her versions.
But until i reread her books i won't be doing anything. she is healthy, sound and her feet look great. Plus i don't do any heavy riding.
jojo
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Member:
Belhaven
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 4, 2004 - 7:26 am:
Jaime's trim here :D
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Member:
Bonnie64
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 8:19 am:
I am interested in keeping my horse barefoot, but the farrier was just at the barn yesterday and trimmed down his frogs. Is there something I can give to my farrier to help accomplish the proper shape and way to trim the foot besides the article on the four point trim, I live in a very small town and our farrier is probably not up on any new techniques. Anything I should be putting on the feet? What exactly should the foot look like and how will I know if it is done correctly?
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Member:
Jivete
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Posted on Wednesday, Apr 26, 2006 - 9:00 am:
I think Pete Ramey's book is good for farriers. The common sense approach make it more palatable. As far as the correct shape, it's up for debate. I personally go for a Ramey/Jackson style trim. But I'm using a Natural Balance farrier at the moment (tried trimming myself and really don't care for it). If you go to Pete's site www.hoofrehab.com there are lots of pictures.
My test for correctness is if my horse can comfortably walk across gravel and if she stands square. Otherwise I know something was done wrong. A heel first landing is another tip-off.
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New Member:
bibby
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 5:37 pm:
Hi - this is my first post. I have read all the posts about barefoot horses and how to keep hooves healthy. I just bought a Morgan gelding, 12 yrs. old and he's been barefoot through the fall. He had shoes when he was shown in Aug. and after his trim a week or so ago, his front feet were sore. I have been applying Venetian Turpentine on the soles, and have gone from doing that every day to every other day; he seemed much better after the first application. He lives outdoors, but I wonder if the hard winter ground affects his hooves. The manager at my barn (from whom I bought him) says he may have to have the turpentine applied after every trim. Is this normal? I can't believe he'll be sore after every trim. What can I tell the farrier, who is fairly young and may not know what he needs. Thanks for any advice.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 9, 2008 - 6:05 pm:
Hi Bobbie, welcome to HA. If you start your own discussion you will probably get more replies.
HA is full of people interested in hooves and very knowlegeable with varying opinions
Go back to the article section and scroll all the way to the bottom, and press the start new discussion button. You can copy and paste your question.
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Member:
gailkin
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 2:20 pm:
Bobbie,
Does your farrier do a pasture trim or a true barefoot trim. There can be a big difference depending on the person.
A good barefoot trim allows a horse to land heel first with a short toe and concurrently short heel, reduced peripheral loading and good sole support. What you call the trim means nothing; it is the proper trimming of the structures to give you a healthy bare hoof that is important. Sometimes a horse can be sore after a good barefoot trim, but that is not the norm. Some things that can cause soreness are improper lateral balance, too high or too low heels, high bars, trimming the frog or not removing diseased frog, abcess forming, etc. How a trim affects your horse also depends on how healthy his feet are to start with. It seems simple but can really be quite complicated depending on the problems with your horse. You need to read the many good barefoot websites that will help to inform you about the hoof structures, how they function, etc. If you need a list of my favorite websites I would be happy to provide them to you. You can email me; just click on my name for my address.
Gail
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 9:37 pm:
my two horses just went barefoot just this past couple of weeks - we take shoes off for the snow. for obvious reasons. he left a lot of sole on there. and did more of a Mustang roll to the toe. I took the arab - best feet - out the next day for a ride in the forest - one stretch is on a rocky gravely road - he did great! when we got home a few hours later he had lost a lot of the older dried sole, and I noticed on the ride a few miss steps, but not much at all considering first ride out second day after having shoes pulled.
the other horse still has more Older Sole left and lots of heal / frog. I am not an expert but they are both very comfortable - I have taking the Big guy out - in hand not ridden to walk on the gravel drive - he seemed fine too so this year I believe the Extra Sole left on till they got used to the barefoot is a great deal and did the trick.
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 9:40 pm:
oh and they do have boots for longer rides when they are barefoot.
I do shoes again in the spring - after it stops snowing - also gives the nail holes a chance to grow out.
do you boot or go totally barefoot on long rides?and do you just boot front?
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New Member:
trnnbrn
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 1:48 pm:
I'm curious about the farriers people in this post have had problems with when it comes to correct barefoot trimming. Are these farriers certified or journeymen farriers? I know some people (and farriers) think belonging to an organization that gives them a "title" is hogwash, but be aware, they have to be tested to earn these certifications. They are not simple tests and many times, it takes many tries to pass them. If you are using a Certified Journeyman Farrier with the AFA, and they keep up on clinics and continuous education, which they have to in order to keep the certification, you shouldn't be worrying about a balanced trim. I don't care if you give it a name, whether it be "natural", or "pasture", or whatever, heck I even had someone talk about an "Arab" trim, there is no such thing. A balanced trim is just that, the trim that keeps the foot correct for the confirmation of the horse. They can't look like the picture in the book because unless your horse's hoof size, angle, movement, confirmation matches the horse in the picture exactly, then it may not look like it, nor should it have to.
Check your farrier's status online. Don't go by what is on their biz card, it could be outdated. Be aware of the sales pitch. Just because it sounds trendy, doesn't mean it is correct. A balanced trim is just that, BALANCED. I'm close to the farrier community and some of them drive me nuts and this is one of my pet peeves. Us horse owners rely on them, but we need to do our homework too. I appreciate those that do this and continue their education, because that is how you start a career. And we need more good farriers out there. Just don't let them sell you into something they call new that already exists.
Sorry for the strong opinion here. I like to see when people are interested in learning more. Be open to many ways of learning and remember there is a science to these big beautiful animals. Appreciate the work it takes to learn about them, it shouldn't be easy and it shouldn't be quick. It should take some years to get a good understanding of the hoof.
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Member:
shanson
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 18, 2008 - 11:29 pm:
He shouldn't be sore after every trim. I would talk it over with your farrier and get his/her thoughts on what might be causing it and what changes he'd suggest in trim/shoeing to address it. He's the professional and should be able to advise you. If he can't, you might want to get an opinion from another farrier.
Can you post photos of his feet? Good side, front, and rear shots while horse is standing square on flat surface.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 10:00 am:
I've been trimming my 4 horses for almost 2 years and learning just from books, the internet sites, and a long distance helper who helps me by looking at my pictures and marking them up as needed, giving me suggestions. During that time period I never had a horse sore in the front feet. I had some soreness in the back leg of one horse, but I can't say for sure if that was from my trimming, or from him landing wrong on a pasture romp (Which I saw happen)
So my point is, you're paying some one to trim, and you're ending up with a sore horse time after time? I hope you get a second opinion, and take the time to do your own research as to what may be the issue here. There are many factors and as said above, check out your farriers credentials, and years of experience. Don't assume that any Joe who comes out the OK Farrier School is a knowledgeable farrier; it's an ongoing learning process and the more you study it, the more points of view you will find.
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Member:
gailkin
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 2:03 pm:
Muffi,
If your horses are doing well barefoot, why do you put shoes back on in the spring. Many horses go barefoot all the time which allows the hoof better blood circulation and hence healthier hoof structures. Of course, it depends on the horse, how well developed the hoof structures are, the health of the hoof, frog and sole, and the areas that you ride in. My horses are both barefoot. My younger one never needs boots even though he can have some soreness from thrush issues. My older one has had more difficulty transitioning, but I only boot him if I have a novice rider on him who doesn't recognize if he is ouchy. In very rocky areas I pony him and without a rider's weight he is fine. Otherwise, I trade off riding each horse and letting the other loose in areas where I can do that.
Dawn,
I think why I make a distinction between a farrier trim and a barefoot trim is because many farriers do the same trim for a barefoot horse that they do when they prepare a hoof for a shoe. They trim the frog and bars and pare out sole and even rasp off the bottom sole of the hoof to level it. Barefoot trimmers do not remove sole in most cases and want a callous to form to protect the sole and are more judicious about paring the frog only removing diseased areas and trimming bars when overgrown or too long. They shorten the toes and bevel or roll the walls to ease breakover. Obviously, either can do a perfectly acceptable trim. That is the problem when hiring anyone to trim; why it is important to learn about hoof structures and hoof health and then find someone who will trim your horses the way you want or trim them yourself. Unfortunately, it makes no difference who they are affiliated with as to what type of trim you will end up with. It all depends on the individual doing the work. I was unable to find anyone to trim my horses the way I wanted, so have been doing them myself for about 5 years. It is very rewarding and amazing to watch the changes in the hoof over the seasons.
Gail
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 5:35 pm:
Hello all,
I'd like to weigh in on the barefoot issue and let you all know that most "farriers" can not tell you what kind of trim they do and most do a pasture or field trim. This is because as Gail says it is not any different from what they do when they put a shoe on. They have been trained this way. To them a barefoot horse is just a horse without shoes.
Many of us know this is not the case and if you do not read a horses feet correctly it can lead to more problems and in my humble opinion is one of the biggest reasons why many horses that should and can go barefoot don't.
A proper balanced trim should be specific to your horse. A horse has four feet and they are not all identical. What one tries to do with the trimming is to balance the foot using the structures (frogs, bars, heels, inner wall, outer wall, medial and lateral cartileges) which correspond to the inner structure of the horses hoof in order to have the bone column all the way up the horses leg be in the correct position for leg function, performance and soundness. It may be different on each hoof.
What one aims for is a foot that when someone picks it up to look at it from the bottom is that in general is 1/3 of the total foot length in front of the widest part of the foot and 2/3's behind it. This allows the horse to land properly heel first and makes him/her use all of the outer hoof structures to dissipate the energy and concussion going to the foot.
Sometimes it takes several trimmings to get the foot the way it is supposed to be. Many horse owners are impatient ( not us hopefully, we know better) and they do not allow the natural progression to take place instead wanting instant gratification of being able to ride their newly barefoot horse across all sorts of terrain before the horse is ready for it(transitioned). Then they get panicky because their horse comes up sore.
I remember the first horse I had trimmed by a "farrier" (and by farrier I mean someone who nails shoes on for a living, and does not do just trims). I had a video of what I needed to do a natural balanced trim. The instructions I gave him were do not take off any sole (I wanted the sole to exfoliate (come off) by itself from the natural wear the horse was doing to its feet by itself. Look at the frog and whichever way the frog was laying over on trim that side of the foot slightly. Only touch the bars to keep them from laying over and bevel or mustang roll the foot. I did not want to do anything drastic for this first time.
All went well for the first three feet because I was standing over him and watching him like a hawk and the feet actually looked much better. So, what happens with the 4th foot is that I did not watch him as closely since he had already done 3 feet perfectly fine and with one errant swipe too many of the rasp, we had a bloody mess. Why, because he did not read the foot correctly and thought he had more sole than he had. I also found out later that this particular horses coffin bone was almost ready to come through the bottom of her sole from the way she had been being shod (by this same farrier). I found this out after I switched to a Professional HPT trimmer ( DAEP), we took pictures and trimmed her properly for at least three trim cycles. I had a different horse, she went from the crabbiest unsound horse, to a horse that actually liked to work.
I guess I am getting to long winded here, so I will end this now.
Do your research, know what you are looking at when you pick up your horses feet and be as educated as you can about going barefoot. You are your horses advocate since he can not talk for himself. Learn to read his body language, he will "tell" you when something is not quite right. Try if you can to educate your farrier, but I think that is a tough road to hoe and if you can't educate him then try to find one that understands that all trims are not the same. It won't be easy.
Here is a website you might want to look at. Lots of info, articles and a list of equine podiatrists, one of which might be in your area.
www.equinepodiatry.net
Good luck
Rachelle
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Member:
shanson
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Posted on Friday, Dec 19, 2008 - 9:30 pm:
Competent farriers trim differently for barefoot vs. shod feet. I have a very good certified journeyman farrier who knows the difference. Bobbie, both of my horses are barefoot right now and neither ever walk away sore after being trimmed.
Bobbie, we look forward to seeing pix. BTW, if you find that you need to find another trimmer/farrier, you may be able to get help at www.horseshoes.com. The professional farriers/trimmers there may be able to recommend good practioners in your area.
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