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  Discussion on Is grain really necessary?
Author Message
Member:
klowe

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 11:45 am:

Hi all- I can't tell you how glad I am to have somewhere to ask my "stupid horse questions." It's one thing just to read expert opinions, and another entirely to be able to ask about all the steps that get skipped by people who know what they're talking about!

So, I have come to the conclusion that grass hay is better than alfalfa, partly because you can give them more of it and they can feed in a more natural way (which is unfortunate as we are surrounded by alfalfa growers and alfalfa here is more plentiful and slightly cheaper) .So if you are feeding a good quality grass hay and giving a good vitamin/mineral supplement (Select II), why do you need grain at all?

I realized that I am feeding 1/2 of the 2 lb. coffee can/day a) because the lady at the feed store recommended it and b) because my boys love their buckets so much and c) because I add their supplements and/or wormer into their buckets with a splash of Manna-Pro equine fat supplement and they gobble it right up. I think b and c are good reasons, not so sure about a...though she's very nice and does have her own horses.

What does everyone think?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 2:42 pm:

Kathy they don't need grain if their diet is good and they don't loose weight (unless you want them to). I have been giving mine a few soaked alfalfa cubes to give with their supplements...they like that just as well as the grain and it is low carb.
Member:
juliem

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 4:26 pm:

Hi Kathy--no stupid questions, they're all good! The people who don't ask questions are the ones to worry about! In Dr. O's article on nutrition, he explains that good quality forage (your grass hay) and salt are really the basic requirements and a vitamin supplement can be added if you are unsure of the quality of your hay. Grain or a "concentrate" is only added if your horses aren't in the condition (weight) you want to see.
Member:
klowe

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 8:09 pm:

OK, thanks. I did read that part of Dr. O's article, but just about everyone seems to feed grain or complete feed, so I was just wondering what others do. One of my horses is probably slightly overweight (he's the dominant one, and also he has some arthritis or knee problem yet to be determined, so he moves around less than the other guy), and the other looks good to me. One (the dominant one) is a Morgan/Quarterhorse cross and the other is Paint crossed w/something big, he's around 16 hh with very big solid legs and bone structure.

Probably I will keep giving them a pound or so of the complete feed. None of my local feed stores carry alfalfa cubes yet. I'm about a hour south of Albuquerque, and I could probably get some there, but the longer I live in the country, the sorrier I feel for those that don't and the less time I want to spend there!

Anyhow, thanks for the advice
Member:
morg1

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 9:51 pm:

Hi Kathy
I feed most of my horses Born to Win (ages ranging from 1 to 15 years, these also include broodmares and stallions). It is a low calory feed that you only feed one pound per horse per day. It is made by Purina, and has the vitamins, minerals and protein that they might be missing in their hay or pasture. You wouldn't need supplements if you fed this either.

All of my horses are easy keepers, so this works well for me. I know that they are getting what they need without the added fat (especially the broodmares in early to mid gestation before I start feeding something with more calories).
Member:
alden

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 10:30 pm:

I'd add that a good grass hay will put weight on just as well as alfalfa. In our part of Colorado grass hay is typically bromme and timothy, both pretty rich. All the horses are keeping well at 2% of body weight or slightly less than 2%.

The best way to know if they need grain or not is to stop feeding it, if they maintain good condition on hay you'll have your answer. The only time I feed grain is when the horse is doing hard work, ie a 40 mile NATRC or five weeks packing in the mountains.

Good day,
Alden
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 11, 2007 - 6:11 am:

Hello Kathy,
We answer your question of "why and why not grain" at Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Equine Nutrition an Overview of Feeding Horses and we do in a a single sentence: The Golden Rule of Feeding. Please spend some time with this article it will greatly improve your horsemanship.

Note that alfalfa is not really better or worse than grass, but it is different in several quantifiable ways and for some horses where those differences fill nutritional niches it is a very important source of forage. This too is discussed in the article on nutrition.

Lastly I want to address the implication in your article that all horses are pretty similar in how they need to be fed. There is a 300% difference in nutritional requirements (primarily energy content) between the easiest and hardest to keep horses, even if they are the same size, breed, age, and doing the same work. Fortunately the majority of horses fall somewhere in between these two extremes. But imagine your horses not keeping weight on even if you doubled their current feedings? Imagine your horses riding 25 miles at 10 miles per hour speed 3-4 times a week? Imagine your horses pregnant? It should help explain to you why there is great variability in how folks feed. Put succinctly, each situation and horse is unique and the best feeding program for your horse will be unique.
But there is one rule that covers them all and why the Nutrition article might be a better place to start than trying to follow other folk's examples of how to feed.
DrO
Member:
klowe

Posted on Thursday, Oct 11, 2007 - 1:16 pm:

Hi Dr. O, I will look at the article again. I find when I am beginning a completely new subject, I have to read stuff many, many times before all the pieces begin to fit together!

I do understand that horses, like people, are all metabolically different, and that differences in activity level also dictate what the individual will need. (I have lots of friends who can eat way more than me!) I guess I was reacting to the way people feed their horses locally-- usually 1 or 2 flakes of alfalfa 2x/day and a pound or 2 of grain or pellets. That's how I started out feeding Cody (somewhat fat) and Paint (pretty normal). But it just didn't feel right, somehow, to be feeding that little to animals that genetically were designed to eat pretty much constantly.

I really wish I could figure out a way to feed them more than 2x a day. I could do it most days, but not all, and I'm not sure it's significant enough to pay someone to do it on the days we can't.

In the meantime, I'm just grateful that so far, my boys have tolerated all my mistakes without seeming to suffer too much!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 12, 2007 - 5:52 am:

Are those horses on pasture KathyinNM and how much do the flakes of alfalfa weigh? You are right about horses liking to chew about 16 hours a day. But the diet you describe may be acceptable. If the horses are eating the bark off the trees and fences and their condition thin, obviously something is missing.
DrO
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