|
|
Discussion on Rats!!
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 4:41 pm:
Hello All;
I always swore (after boarding in many rat infested barns) that my barn would not have rats. I have several (6 right now) good barn cats, who are well fed and healthy. But, sadly, I must admit we have a rat problem now. In the past any rodents found in the barn (mice mostly) were usually found shortly thereafter in bits and pieces so my cats have been doing their jobs.
I have not seen any live rats. I've seen one dead (met up with one of my cats) and 1/2 of another one (once again, met up with one of my cats....apparently he got full ). The only thing management wise that we are doing different now than in the past 5 years my barn has been in existance is that last year we built on a small hay barn. My husband put in a wooden floating floor. Other than that everything we are doing is basically the same. The rats have apparently made thier home in the space between the floating floor and the walls of the hay barn and are trying to expand behind my stalls in between the stall walls and the barn walls. Recently we found a huge pile of horse manure (all dry so it had been there for awhile) in between the bottom bales of hay in the hay barn. (gross!!)
We are not replacing any hay in the hay barn so as to empty it out. My husband has tried trapping (he has quite a bit of experience with this as he used to do wildlife removal as a side job) but has had no luck. I hesitate to use poison as I have lost 2 cats to poisoning. (i.e. they apparently ate a poisoned rat from a neighboring farm) I don't want to endanger the cats for doing their job. I read the earlier posts concerning the Purina product but I'm thinking there would still be a risk to my cats.
Help! Any ideas anyone?
Oh, and a rat terrier would be great but I already have 4 dogs.
Lisa
|
Member:
Liliana
|
Posted on Tuesday, Nov 30, 2004 - 7:54 pm:
And the rat terrier would also have your cats for breakfast!
It is a winter proble I have always found, rats like any living thing try to find shelter in the cold months, perhaps if you cut down on the cat food just a bit so that they feel the need to go hunting again. Cats do not like the cold either. Who can blame them brrr
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 9:48 am:
Lilana;
No offense but feeding the cats less in NOT the answer. That's just cruel. Well fed cats are the best hunters and mine do plenty of hunting. Incidentally, I don't think a rat terrier would take out my cats as they have on occasion brought home weasels for me. (they don't eat them, I guess they taste bad due to the musk). Any cat that can kill a weasel is no slacker!!
You are right about the cold weather, but I think the rats have been working since late last summer. We unintentionally allowed some brush to grow behind the barn, I guess that was a big mistake. One we won't make again. It was just an invitation to the rats. My husband it going to try some new traps tonight and we are going to get some of that sticky paper. My vet suggested that.
I'll let you know how that goes.
Lisa
|
Member:
Lhenning
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 10:31 am:
Lisa,
I'm not sure if this would help, but we use a product for mice called "Tom Cat", which is a poison hidden deep inside a heavy plastic contraption. Our pets can't get inside it, but the mice can and it has been very useful. Perhaps this is made for rats too. Otherwise, could you "hide" the poison in something you rig up that the cats couldn't get into? I hate poisoning, but it sure is effective.
Linda
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 11:11 am:
Linda;
The problem is, that if the rats eat the poison, and then get eaten by the cats before (or after) they die, the cats get poisoned too. That's why we are not planning on using a "poison" type product. Beleive me, the death for the cat is just as agonizing as it was for the rat. And there isn't much that can be done for the cat once it's ingested the rat. (been there, don't want to see that happen again)
Thanks
Lisa
|
Member:
Liliana
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 11:56 am:
Hi Lisa,
Of course I would never suggest to starve your cats!
I love cats ! I have 14 of them, apart from my 12 dogs 6 resident horses of my own, not counting liveries, 30 or so lamb and goats, chickens and ducks plus any other species that may need help.
We run an ecological yard and let nature do everything in its own way, we do no use fertilizers, any form of poison, chemicals and so on and do not have a rat problem ever!
We actually have a few boas, rats are a delicasy for them, but most people do not like that idea.
Sticky paper is very cruel, may get more cats!
Best of luck,
|
Member:
Cowgrl
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 12:03 pm:
Unfortunately, most cats will not go after rats as they can easily tear into a cat and give it real run for the money. We are currently having a problem with rats and the cats will not hunt them. Mice - yes, rats - no. The rats raid the cat food if any is left over and the rats will come right in even when the cats are there. I think they must be on a first name basis by now. 
Poison is the best way and if you put it where the cats absolutely cannot get to it, the rats will die out of the cat's range.
My husband has trapped a few in a large garbage can that he put a false top on that would cave in if a rat stepped on it. He just used a shovel to kill them but one was able to jump out and get away.
|
Member:
Jojo15
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 12:15 pm:
Lisa, Do a search for Rats on here. I remember a really good post of alternative ideas and products to help solve this problem. It was probably about a year ago.
joj
|
Member:
Poppy
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 12:34 pm:
Unfortuantely we have rats and they are magnets for rattlesnakes. We have found snakes in our barn several times. So, we have had to resort to poison. For that reason, we do not have barn cats.
We find the dead rats inside the shop or in other corners of the barn.
We have had horses bitten by rattlers here, and there is nothing we have found to rid ourselves of rats but poison.
My brother has chickens which are also magnets for rats. He uses a product named "Rat Zapper", which we may try instead. He swears by it. You can access it on line.
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 3:09 pm:
I did read the old posts. They were from last December, Isn't that coincidental? (NOT). There were some good ideas in there. I've also done some research on the internet but that is general information and not necesarily for a "horse barn rat problem". (i.e. It's impossible for me to remove all other food sources....my other animals have to eat too).
Obviously some of you live in more temperate regions. Boa's don't live in the North and rattlesnakes are rare for us (although not unheard of, but ours stick to the wetlands).
Holly I agree with you that most of my cats won't mess with the adult rats. What they are eating and killing are the babbies. (my husband found another 1/2 rat....or front end....in the yard yesterday). I guess that's good. Zero population growth I hope. But I do have faith in my barn cats as remember at least one (or more?) fought and won over several weasels and they are pretty nasty critters. However, that said, I did catch an oppossum eating WITH the cats out of the cat food bowls one day. Like you said they apparently were good friends and on a first name basis. Fotuneatley that guy is gone. What products do you use that work so quickly on the rats?
What concerns me is exactly what Diane stated. The rats would die in open, where a cat could get at them (or dog). If they died really fast I'd use the poison between the walls, where they are and where the cats can't get to. But all I keep seeing is one of my sweet barn cats with blood coming out of her nose in an agonizing death. You see this has really happened already. It was not pleasant or pretty, and nothing I could do. Although we don't poison, neighboring farms do. My cats tend to hunt where the rodents are, and
up till now that was usually elsewhere.
Well, thanks for the advice so far.
I suppose after all us humans are gone there will still be rats. And I can imagine them laughing.
Lisa
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 3:43 pm:
Hi Lisa, I am curious about the poison that your cat got into. We use the hard plastic containers that contain the poison blocks. We then put a heavy cement block on top to the bait box. My pest control guy told me that there is no residual poison passed on to the animal that is strong enough to poison another critter going for a free, dead meal. I have heard that the poison that is used is very attractive to other animals, which is why so many animals are accidently poisoned by searching out blocks of poison hidden all over the place. Is it possible that your cats were visiting the neighbors and ingested the poison itself? I am hopeful that my pest control is telling me the truth, or I will not only worry about my cats but also the wildlife we share the world with. I hate using poison, it is a horrible death for any living creature, but the rodents have an unusual way of taking over a place don't they? Has anyone else checked with pest control as to the residual effects of poison?
We too are fighting this battle.
suz
|
Member:
Liliana
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 4:09 pm:
Just one comment about rat poison. Having cats and have gone throw the horror of loosing my beloved cat and Alsatian dog throw negligent poisoning in the neighbours yard and being assured that they use a rat only poison, I spend my grieving time researching poisons.
Rats are very intelligent therefore if one sees another one eat and die, forget it, it will not touch the stuff. Therefore the poisons are slow acting, usually it works through internal bleeding, or mummification which can take even a month to kill the animal as it dies from the inside out.
In other words if you put your poison today, the cat, dog etc., may only begin top show signs a month later, in many cases cats and dogs die and their owners do not do a necropsy and do not find out that their pet die thanks to a neighbours friendly rat only poison.
They are accumulative, so you will hear people say, my cat eat a poison rat and nothing happened! Ok wait until it bites another dieing rat and see what happens.
Anyway as I mentioned before. After loosing my Alsatian (German Shepperd) and my Fatso the cat, I will never use or advise anyone to use poison of any kind.
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 4:37 pm:
Susan;
My vet said the same things that Liliana said in her post concerning rat poison. Sadly they see it rather frequently, and unless you catch it when it's just happened the cat/dog is lost. It's heartbreaking to watch a pet die that way. I keep reminding myself though that I cannot protect my barn cats from everything unless they become house cats. And in my opinion, they are vastly happier and healthier than any house cats I've ever had. Because of their occupational hazard of getting worms mine are dewormed for tapes (and all the other run of the mill worms) quarterly. Seems to work pretty well, although it can get a bit costly with a lot of cats.
My vet said specifically that the cat does not have to eat the poison directly to get poisoned. In his opinion she ate a poisoned rodent(s). I do not know(but would like to) what the hunting range is for domestic cats but there are several houses/farms within a half mile of our farm. Some of them very inviting to rodent infestation. I'm sure my cats go there for sport (and snacks). It's bad enough knowing they could be at risk from other farms let alone my own.
I'm afraid I'm with Liliana, no poisons for me. I'm still interested in the sticky paper. My vet said it would not trap the cats as you use it in the rat's runways. In this case the cats can't fit in there.
Lisa
|
Member:
Tpmiller
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 4:54 pm:
Link to RatZapper, am going to try:
https://www.agrizap.com/product-zapper2000.cfm
|
Member:
Jojo15
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 5:09 pm:
Effective (kills mice, rats, chipmunks and ground squirrels)
Tim, why would you want to kill chipmunks and squirrels? unless you live in an area that doesn't have these guys..
On same thread, different note. Are there any signs of rat poisoining in dogs or cats or horses?
What is difficult to understand is that rats frequent places with domestic animals. (Dogs, Cats, Horse, Bird, Goat, etc) because of the food supplies. And there is no clear cut way to get rid of one and save the other.
I am curious about your neighbor, did they have animals? I am always afraid of someone poisoning one of my dogs (who escapes alot) on purpose. Funny, he is a rat terrier mix.  (maybe that is why i haven't seen any rats....)
jo
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 5:32 pm:
Jo;
No I would highly doubt any or my neighbors would have poisoned my cats on purpose. They probably welcome them.(because of their rodent problems). One of my neighbors has a fondness for junk (i.e. junk cars, boats, semi trailers, etc....). We call him "junky guy" .....but I digress.... I'd bet that's who's poisoning the rats, wouldn't you? All these things are just sitting out in his field. He also has an older wooden barn. My other immediate neighbors have basically houses and no animals. "junky guy" has dogs. There are no "livestock animals" within about 3/4 of a mile as the crow flies from my farm. My barn is steel with gravel flooring. Not many places for a rat or mice to go .... except for that new attached hay barn with the floating wooden floor we just put up last year. Sounded like a good idea at the time.....
I suppose we could remove the floating wooden floor but then would have to replace it with wooden pallets....basically the same thing. Rats could still get under there.
Incidentally I did a search on the internet with the words "cats rat poison" and found a lot of testimonials where people had "house cats" who bit or ate poisoned rats/mice and died from the poison. Obviously these cats did not injest the poison itself as none was in the house. This has been a learning experience for me as I didn't know they could get sick just from biting a poisoned rat/mouse.
Lisa
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 5:36 pm:
Tim;
Checked out the rat zapper link. Looks interesting. I'll show it to my husband tonight and see what he thinks. Price is good too.
Thanks!
Lisa
|
Member:
Tpmiller
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 6:05 pm:
JoJo- despite heated barn, have never seen a squirrel or Chippy in there. Between dogs and stray cats- who have adopted the place, can't use poison, or glue. One cat has figured out how to release mice from a live trap, musta watched Free Willy too often.
Lisa- given the shipping charges, they must deliver by private Leer Jet. Now I gotta build an air strip.
|
Member:
Cowgrl
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 6:44 pm:
Lisa, Where did you see the price? There are a couple of local stores that carry it so I'll go check it out soon. Also, what's to keep a curious cat from going in and getting zapped? It comes back to the same question, where can you put it so the cats don't get into it?
|
Member:
Ajudson1
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 7:36 pm:
Takes a tough cat to kill a rat. The first time I let our Shephard/Retreiver mix dog into our new tackroom, I panicked, thought he was going after one of our newly acquired kittens!! But he came out with a huge rat, first one I ever saw in the 16 yrs we've lived here. And last one I hope. So maybe a cat friendly but rat hating dog is the answer? Btw, our Jack Russell Terrier leaves our cats alone but he's not happy he's not #1 any more.
I've never realised cats could die from eating poisoned rodents. We've always put poison out, guess our cats must only been eating "fresh" kills and we've been lucky. Interesing post going here.
|
Member:
Liliana
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 8:18 pm:
Angie,
I am so happy for you yes you should consider yourself lucky!
My Fatso and Dixie died in England we lived in the country then, here in Cozumel I also lost my little Daisy, She was a mongrel but by golly she was a good hunter, little as she was Winnie cross. She caught one rat that had the mummification poison, and it was horrible to see her go, we tried everything for three weeks. Blood transfusion, intravenous feeding stomach cleansing. The one thing I learned is that if it ever happens again I will just put them to sleep. It is the most distressing thing that could ever happened to anyone. She literally began to mummify in front of my very eyes.
|
Member:
Jojo15
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 8:33 pm:
What about the pellets? that make them go for water? immediately? and then DrOwn? I don't even think the poison gets into their system Just enough to make them run for water. It's cruel but our old barn did it. And had 30 cats. None died of poisoning.
|
Member:
Parfait
|
Posted on Wednesday, Dec 1, 2004 - 8:55 pm:
I have tried the Rat Zapper and even had to consult with the maker (Not THAT maker but the maker of the trap) over the phone as we always would see that it was set off and there were skid marks tearing out of the trap...and no rat. I have to add that our rats are the Norway variety and huge. We didn't catch even one single rat in that darned thing. I had to resort to poison, My Aussie got into it and I luckily caught him and treated him in time. Good luck to everyone with the problem. It seems that whenever the freeze comes, we see them.
Kerry
|
Member:
Ajudson1
|
Posted on Thursday, Dec 2, 2004 - 8:15 am:
Liliana,
How sad. Sorry you had to go thru that. I've been sharing this post with my husband, and we won't be putting out anymore poison. the things you learn on Horseadvice.com!!
My 10 yr old daughter so loves our 4 cats. She'd be devastated if they died from our lack of knowledge over poisoning.
I know we will be paying more attention to keeping spills cleaned up and everything locked up in hopefully rodent proof containers.
Everyone post back when you find what works best.
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Thursday, Dec 2, 2004 - 10:18 am:
Holly;
I just clicked on one of the links. The price was $29 and some change. It's only 4x4 so you'd have to have a pretty small cat to be able to get in there. I can see one of my cats sticking it's paw in there though. I'm figuring they would only do that once. 
I'm just remembering what Liliana said about rats that is very true. They are very intelligent and if they saw another rat die in the rat zapper I bet they wouldn't go near it again.
We have been trying to studying our rats habbits. They seem only to go into the horse stalls and look in the manure for food. My horses don't leave any grain behind anywhere else. Interestingly enough, my husband accidentally DrOpped a scoop of grain (cracked corn and oats) on the floor in front of the stall that the rats are still frequenting. We left it there to see what happened. It is outside of the stall in the isle and the only ones eating it are the dogs! Guess I'll just have to clean it up. That tells me the rats are not going into the rest of the barn. Probably too dangerous with the cats there. I know my cat Jake is extremely interested in that stall and goes in there multiple times when I'm watching him. I would bet those rats are feeling the pressure. (I hope).
Our plan right now is to clean the hay out of hay barn and try and let the cats have a good go at them. No poison. We will also try live and snap traps and the sticky paper as well. From what I've read you need to vary your attack.
Lisa
|
Member:
Lisamg
|
Posted on Monday, Dec 6, 2004 - 5:31 pm:
Hi All;
I think we got him!  I'm not a vindictive person (or at least I don't like to think of myself that way) but seeing that rat dead with his neck broken sure felt good! He was a big one too. Not huge but a good 5 inches of actual body probably about 10 with his tail included. He was shinny and healthy looking so obviously our feeding program suited him.
We found what appeared to be Mrs. rat .... or what was left of her..... too. She was what we'd been smelling since early Fall. She apparently met a cat who mortally wounded her and she went deep in the hay bales and died. I suppose she could have been poisoned too, but we've never used poison and their aren't any buildings that close. I know my cats can travel to the next farm but I'm not so sure about the rats travelling that far. I'm hoping that my feline barn staff have gotten all of the babies. As of this morning there was no rat signs. We're going to wait about a week more. If we don't catch anything else and don't see any more rat signs we're going to fill in the tunnels with gravel.
We cleaned out the hay barn last Sat. and found at least 1 more wheelbarrow load of dried horse manure in between the bottom bales. There also was a good size pile in between the wall of the hay barn and the horse barn (about 6 inches wide). So we put glue traps in there by their holes. They can't get out of those holes without stepping on the glue traps. So far, nothing and we caught Mr. rat on Friday night. I will sure be happy if they are all gone.
Happy hunting to the rest of you!
Lisa
|
|
|
