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Discussion on Rescue Weanling and Vaccinations
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 - 3:19 am:
Hey Dr. O,
I will be getting a rescue weanling sometime, hopefully, in the next few months... yes, another PMU "affiliated" adoption. And, in talking to the owner of the boarding facility where I plan to keep this filly (over the winter), she mentioned that "we will need to give her vaccinations ASAP..." Now, this facility, like most responsible ones, has stringent requirements for vaccinations for their boarders (basically, they require a minimum of bi-annual EEE/WEE/Tetanus, Rhinopneumonitis (EHV 1/4)/Influenza, WNV, IN Strangles, PHF, and annual Rabies. However, they also have a small (and currently unoccupied) barn remote from the main boarding structure where we plan to put this filly... my intent was to insure this weanling be isolated from the other horses for at least 21 days before beginning any vaccination schedule. Then, I had planned to have her undergo the vaccination schedule of a weanling making the assumption that she was born to an unvaccinated broodmare. I am planning a primary and one booster for Rabies, WNV (my vet has recently changed to the Prevenile one, but I was under the impression that a booster is still needed following the initial one), IN Strangles, and PHF; and a primary and two boosters for E/W/T, and R/F; and then, depending on the age of this filly when I actually get her, reassess at the 12 month age time frame. The other advantage for the isolation time frame is, hopefully, I will be able to initiate some effective halter training and she will be somewhat manageable for her initial vet visit. When I explained this rationale, the owner of the facility expressed concern, indicating that she felt this weanling should begin her initial vaccinations immediately. It seems to me that part of the rationale for quarantine is to be able to observe the horse for the development of any illnesses and since vaccinations can produce side-effects or the appearance of illness, it makes more sense to delay the vaccinations until the 21 days has elapsed. Have I lost my mind???
Martha
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 - 8:13 am:
Another rationale is that all of the travel will create a stress response that may make the vaccines less effective Martha. I would recommended waiting until the weanling has settled down before vaccinating. Until properly vaccinated and boostered however I would not expose the weanling to the group. This is not just for the groups protection but the weanling also.
DrO
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 - 4:55 pm:
Thanks Dr. O,
I will remind this individual about the efficacy of vaccinations in an immune "stressed" weanling who will have just travelled more than 2500 miles. But, hmmm, you would continue to "isolate" this filly until she COMPLETES her series of vaccinations, which by my estimate will be at least 2-3 months???
Martha
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 - 6:41 pm:
Well, I've just finished reading more (the articles on Influenza and EHV 1/4 diseases) and this info, following what I had previously gleaned from the two articles on Vaccinations (Overview and Schedules), as well as the AAEP's website recommendations (boy, the AAEP really needs to update their vaccination recommendations as what I found on their site was from early ?2005), has now served to confuse me on a few issues...
Sooo, do you REALLY recommend the IN Influenza vaccine in weanlings, yearlings, and young horses (and the article indicates that ONCE is sufficient to convey immunity), as compared to the MLV injectable by ?Merial (that appears to require a series of two doses to start)???? Also, I was under the impression that there was a "combo" EHV 1/4 & Influenza "MLV" vaccine available (what I referred to as R/F in my initial posting)... is that true???
Martha
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 - 8:32 pm:
Hi Martha, when you get this figured out (I value your analytical mind!) simplify it for me as I have three weanlings who also are not vaccinated! I've been focused on addressing the worming issue as they are obviously wormy. They only traveled a hundred miles and even though they were together, the stress took its toll on one of them. After 12 days her diarrhea is finally (I hope) clearing. I can't imagine a baby traveling 2500 miles! Will she at least be able to see other horses when she's in quarantine? Mine are unable to get closer than about 60 feet from other horses so I'm not too worried about them catching anything and was interested in Dr. O's comment about the vaccines being less effective on stressed youngsters. Anyway, let me know what you decide.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Oct 26, 2007 - 7:00 am:
It is either that Martha or expose her to potential respiratory diseases that hang around barns like herpes and strangles. As these problems may persist but be subclinical in vaccinated horses, the heavy vaccination schedule for the other individuals may hide these disease rather than actually prevent them. Using the barns history as a guide and factoring in your willingness to take the chance of such a problem, transient respiratory disease of varying severity, only you can decide whether to do this or not.
DrO
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Friday, Oct 26, 2007 - 1:04 pm:
Thanks again Dr. O for your "words of wisdom"... and thanks Julie for your comments...
Now, I have given this issue some additional thought and I agree, it's just NOT worth the risk, so the vaccinations will be completed BEFORE this weanling goes into the herd at large... Ironically, I was so concerned over this weanling being ALONE for so long, that I ended up deciding to adopt another one!!! So, there will be two weanlings (they are half-sibs by the same stallion) arriving for my "winter equine training project"...
But, just to clarify the actual vaccination choice and schedule...
In the scenario I have described, is the intra-nasal Influenza vaccination (given just once) the best option for THESE weanlings????
Martha
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, Oct 26, 2007 - 3:06 pm:
Pictures WE want pictures..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Oct 26, 2007 - 5:24 pm:
Martha, that's how I ended up with three!! Fuzzy math I know. I had decided to buy one as she has exactly the breeding I like to work with. I didn't want to have just one weanling so adopted another to be her companion. By the time they were both ready to be weaned and shipped, there would have been only one left alone at the ranch where I adopted the companion. What could I do? I hope I have enough hay!! As it turned out, she is the sweetest natured baby I've ever seen! I guess we have our "winter equine training project in place!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 27, 2007 - 9:26 am:
Hello Martha,
Because I cannot personally examine the horse and situation I avoid recommending a particular vaccine for a specific case. I can educate you about the pros and cons of the common vaccines available as you will find in the article on influenza (these articles are updated several times a year to keep current), and recommend a general schedule as you will find in the vaccine schedule article, and go over the principles behind the schedule as you will find in the vaccine overview article but I think it prudent to stop short of a specific recommendation.
DrO
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 27, 2007 - 11:02 am:
Thanks anyway Dr. O... I understand the difficulty of making a blanket statement without the opportunity to actually examine these weanlings... clearly, even I have no idea what condition they will be in when they arrive, so I will give everyone an update after they arrive (which could be quite a while depending on many factors). And, I have read all the articles you mention, they have been quite informative... I just tend to see the "gray" in everything, hence why I was looking for a concrete statement...
And, Julie, I think we have discussed this topic before, but YOU and I can NEVER go to an auction together (especially with a horse trailer in tow!) Good Luck with your own projects this winter!
And, Ann, pictures will be forthcoming once they've arrived... I can only hope my pictures have some of the special attributes that YOURS do... but I will give you this bit of "visual" info, though there were a few appy babies "available", they were not in the dire situation that other weanlings were... so, the babies I chose to adopt are draft/AQHA cross fillies (a bay roan and a bay), which I hope will make nice substantial trail horses... Ahhh, the vision of spots lost... in my barn, God is still on the "first day"!!!
Martha
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Feb 29, 2008 - 9:52 pm:
Martha, how is your "project" going? Would love to see pictures! Two of mine are under the Horse pictures 2 thread. Hope all is well--I've missed hearing about your "herd"! Julie
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Member:
mitma
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 11:03 pm:
Hey Julie,
Sorry, it has taken so long to respond... I HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY BUSY RECENTLY!!! The new babies arrived on January 20th! Wow, I can't believe that I've actually had them for 6 weeks!!! I have worked tirelessly with them both almost daily, and despite them being half sisters, and coming from the same herd, they really are so very different! Both are Belgian/Quarterhorse crosses, with maybe some remote Percheron influence... The light bay roan, Lucy, is the larger filly... she actually made contact with me within 24 hours of their arrival... she's very curious! I am basically halter training her "in hand" and she's been doing great! I can halter her easily, she responds to pressure, and she has been on "walks" outside of their enclosure. The dark bay, smaller filly, Darcy, is still rather wild! I am spending alot of time with her, in her stall and the round pen... I move her out to demonstrate my "leadership"; I have her turning in to face me and reversing direction during our "free lunging" sessions, but she is only willing to allow me the briefest of physical contact with her nose... of all places... if I approach her shoulder or neck, which I generally think of as safer zones, instead of the head, she decompensates... Both of these weanlings arrived wearing halters... I suspect that when they had blood drawn for their coggins, they were likely placed in a squeeze chute and maybe the halters were put on at that point in time; Lucy's halter was so tight it was almost cutting into her throat latch, so I am grateful that I have been able to gentle her, just so I could remove that horrible halter; Darcy is still wearing the halter she arrived in, but since she's smaller, it's not critically tight yet. Regarding their vaccinations, they haven't gotten any yet. We are still keeping them in the isolation area; a remote, very large run in shed with a few portable stalls set up inside; we also erected a small round pen structure adjacent to these stalls so they could have a bit of exercise. Clearly, I could go ahead and vaccinate Lucy, but I really wanted to start them both together.... we'll see! More to come! (The first two pictures attached were taken the day of their arrival; the second two were taken a week or two later... they're actually even bigger now!)
Martha
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 7:14 am:
Martha, Congratulations on your two new cuties and kudos to you for taking on the huge task of giving them excellent care and good training! Best of luck and please keep us posted on their progress
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 7:41 am:
Very good looking babies Martha, thanks for the update.
DrO
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 4:32 pm:
Martha, you have been the best kind of busy! Working with the young is so huge in feel good there is nothing like it ! Send pics as you can!  Cindy
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 8, 2008 - 3:48 pm:
Dear Martha,
Welcome back...always a pleasure! The kiddos are beautiful.
Best Regards,
Tonya
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