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  Discussion on Eating Unsuitable Items
Author Message
Member:
Kcovell

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 7:17 am:

DrO

Sunday I was cleaning stalls and I noticied one of my mares eating feces near the barn. I know there is a name for this and that foals do it, but why would a 6 year old? I chased her away and cleaned it up, but I need to know what causes this and what I can do about it. I clean around the outside of the barn everyday. This horse is on Ultium feed, alfalfa in the AM and alicia in the PM. She is turned out everyday, except in bad weather.
I just noticed her doing this and I also noticed that my other mare is in heat and right now they are inseparable.
Thanks

KC
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 10:04 am:

dI would like to know also. I saw our 5 year old mare doing it a couple of weeks ago and I had never seen another adult do this. She appears fine otherwise and she is only on hay and a small amount of pelleted feed. She has salt and fresh water. It puzzled me at the time and I forgot until now all about it. EO
Member:
Sunny66

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 10:36 am:

I found this under nutrition/PICA, hope it helps:

Coprophagia

Adult coprophagia may be due to dietary deficiency, lack of opportunity to chew, or abnormal Gl flora. Coprophagia in adults usually follows an abrupt change in diet from high to low roughage content. Old horses eat feces when the diet is either deficient, lacking in long fiber, or unavailable. Some horses eat feces while recovering from Gl surgery supporting the idea that it may help reestablish normal GI microflora.

First follow the general treatment considerations outlined above. Also important in considering the horse that eats feces is that he may be getting a concentrated dose of intestinal parasites so extra precautions should be taken to be sure he and his companions are well dewormed. Coprophagia has been associated with predisposition to equine motor neuron disease.
Member:
Jerre

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 11:17 am:

My mare will eat her 2yo filly's feces, but only when the filly has been upset and left a loose pile. This happens once in a while if I've had the mare out and the filly fretted while we were away. It's a highly specific behavior and I'd be grateful for any insight.

Jerre
Member:
Kcovell

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 8:28 pm:

DrO & Aileen
I read the article (thanks Aileen), but am still concerned. Is there something lacking and if so what so I can fix it.

The first ingredient listed on my feed (Ultium) is dried beet pulp. The percentages are: Protein 11.7, Fat 12.4, Fiber 18.5, Calcium 18.5, Phosphorus .500, Copper 65.00ppm, Selenuim .600ppm, Zinc 240ppm, Vit.A 5000.00IU/LB, Vit. E 150.00IU/LB. There is no ruminant meat and it is bone meal free. She has free choice mineral/salt and the feed is higher in fiber then what she was eating. She is wormed every other month (December 2004).
KC
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 8:39 pm:

Is grass available in the pasture and how many lbs of hay does she receive?
DrO
Member:
Kcovell

Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 8:47 pm:

There is not alot of grass (4 horses on 4 acres). Since November and from now on I am home every day so on top of the alfalfa she gets in the AM I put out alicia in the late morning (I usually feed around 3am) for all of the horses. I don't know how many pounds, but she would get 1 pad of alfalfa, and 2 of alicia. I spread the late morning hay around so each horse gets their own and doesn't steal from the others.
KC
I just read this equine motor neuron disease and I don't think it fits (it is scarey) she hasn't lost weight and has no other symptoms.
This is the horse I was feeding Straegy/Omelene 100, but I heard people that used Ultium liked it better (most had been feeding Strategy) and it's really messy mixing the two feeds together in a garbage can.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 6:16 am:

Assuming normal size flakes (pads), I think it is possible she is not getting enough forage, for more on this see Overview of Feeding.
DrO
Member:
Frances

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 9:16 am:

KC: At one time, about a year ago, I noticed my mare often eating her own manure. It was just when we had started feeding molassed chaff, and I felt the reason might simply be that she liked the sweet taste.... She doesn't seem to do it any more.
Member:
Vaeqres

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 2:28 pm:

Hi KC, Has your horse been through an agressive course of antibiotics at some time? I have seen horses whose gut bacteria have been killed off by antibiotics (or possibly aflatoxins) try to repopulate their gut by eating feces. Unfortunately, it doesn't work because the strong stomach acids in the mature horse will kill any live gut bacteria which enters it. Foal's stomachs are not so acid, and they populate their gut with appropriate flora for digesting grass by eating their mother's feces. Repopulating a mature horse's gut is fairly simple, but finding a large animal vet to do it might be tough. A manure tea (manure from a healthy, easy-keeper placed in warm water, and then strained through a cheese cloth) is pumped into the stomach using a gastro-nasal tube. A vet experienced in estimating the capacity of the horse's stomach is important because only enough to fill the stomach and spill a little bit into the small intestine is necessary. Any bacteria in the manure tea that stay in the stomach will be killed by the acid. But the bacteria that spill over into the small intestine will multiply there and repopulate the gut. Needless to say, the healthy horse manure must come from a well wormed animal. This treatment, familiar to any cattle vet but not taught much to equine practitioners these days, can turn a poor to marginal doer into a "bloomer." One horse that I know receiving this treatment, an older horse, got a small tummy-ache immediately after and needed a little Banamine, but was right as rain within minutes, and then flourished as never before because he was finally able to get the full benefit from his food through the action of his new gut bacteria.
My other thought was that horses sometimes eat "inappropriate" things when their bodies are craving minerals and vitamins. Perhaps he is running the Ultium through a second time to extract any unabsorbed nutrients (although that's just a wild guess on my part).
This ties in with Aileen's post on Coprophagia and its relation to Equine Motor Neuron Disease because EMND is associated with Vitamin E deficiency. One result of Vitamin E defiency is the dilation and vacuolation of the myelin sheath of the spinal cord (N.R.C. source), trapping the cord in the spinal canal and leaving the horse in a condition similar in appearance to human Multiple Sclerosis. If caught in time, a high grade vitamin/mineral supplement can reduce that thickening so that the spinal cord will again be able to slide easily through the spinal canal, and function is restored. I know a yearling filly diagnosed as a hopeless wobbler and scheduled to be put down within a week if she did not respond to the new nutrition program, turn around so dramatically that she was symptom-free and under saddle as a two year old. Many of the neurological disorders out there, not counting those caused by an invading organism like EPM, come from Vitamin deficiencies. Remember that E and Selenium are linked and both play a part in tissue health, so if you are from a part of the country with selenium deficient soils, selenium needs to be in your feeding program, too. Best wishes, Andrea
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Thursday, Jan 13, 2005 - 6:13 am:

You are the first to ever refer to the manure tea I have seen We have used it on foals in the past with excellent results. Haven't thought to use it on a mature horse. Anytime I have suggested it people wrinkle their noses but it does work. EO
Member:
Kcovell

Posted on Saturday, Jan 15, 2005 - 5:15 am:

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you--computer problem. The Ultium does have Selenium .600ppm and Vit. E 150.00IU/LB. the minerals I feed free choice are Purina horse mineral, but since it's 4AM and cold I can't go look at the bag to see exactly what is in it. It is not a block, but a powder is the only way I can think of to describe it. I've recently seen her sniffing around, but not eating anymore. I'm going to up the Vit. E, but I don't know about the Selenium until I can find out what is considered a safe amount to give.
NOSE WRINKLE on manure tea for now.
Thanks for everyones information and help and if anyone thinks of anything else let me know.
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