|
|
Discussion on Improving Sole Depth
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Monday, Feb 7, 2005 - 9:34 pm:
Dr. O, I have tried to read the articles on hoof care, but have not found anything specific in how to increase the sole on Levi's foot. We did another x-ray today. Nothing seems to have changed in the angle of the coffin bone, and the sole depth has not increased much. I have not heard from the vet yet, it is just what I saw in the x-ray, I mailed them off to the vet in South Dakota for review. Is there any supplement other than the biotin,or a dressing that can help to increase his sole depth?
thanks
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 8, 2005 - 7:05 am:
No there is nothing you can place on the outside, it has to grow out Susan. We do have other specific nutritional suggestions in the article and overall good nutrition is important. It is common to find slow horn growth following a founder, I don't know if it is just the lack of blood supply or changes in the function of the corium but patience is the key.
DrO
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 8, 2005 - 8:52 am:
Thanks Dr. O, I have him on plain oats and ABC HOOF supplement right now. I have just ordered some of the Safe Choice food. I took him off of his sweet feed grain/ per vet advice. He also gets Brome hay mixture, and a flake of alfalfa per day. I put 3 piles of hay out in feeders for 3 horses. I think Levi eats on it all day! He is such a pig, but he has lost weight, since I cut back on the alfalfa. I will post his latest x-rays when they return them.
thanks
sue
|
Member:
Johnsonl
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 8, 2005 - 10:30 am:
Susan,
I'm carefully watching your posts on Levi and rooting for you two all the way. My Buckeye was diagnosed with founder from laminitis (came on slowly)in June 2004. He had 8 and 12 degree rotations, of which the 8 degree is totally corrected and the 12 is almost gone. My farrier has been wonderful, and my vet very encouraging about his long-term prognosis to some level of work. We will see, as he still walks delicately when I'm on him, although he'll canter and trot around in pasture. I'm giving him more time. I just wanted to suggest "Happy Hoof", which is manufactured by Spillers/Seminole as a great hoof supplement. It can also be used as a complete feed. I put Buckeye on this after a friend of mine put her horse on it after foundering so bad the coffin bone came through on one hoof; the horse is doing amazingly well after 1 1/2 years, and even being ridden some. Anyway, my friend raved about the product so I put Buckeye on it. I used to give Mr. B 3/4 scoop on Purina Senior feed and 2 flakes of T&A per day. I've since had him on barely 1/2 scoop of grain, and a tightly packed 1/2 scoop of Happy Hoof, along with Nu-Hoof supplement. My farrier came out last week and told me Mr. B had so much sole he actually had to take some off! He's been extremely pleased with Mr. B's progress and told me to keep doing whatever it was I was doing in terms of feeding him. The Happy Hoof has also improved his coat condition and the low starch, high fiber diet is great for laminitic horses. Just thought I'd pass along Buckeye's "sole" success story and see if you've ever looked into the product. Also, horses like B who aren't being ridden don't need much, if any grain. I'd considered eliminating it completely and just going with the Happy Hoof but I'm too much of a Softie as Buckeye likes his grain so much, therefore, I've compromised. And Dr. O is right...ultimately, it's a lot of time and patience! Good luck, Sue, and keep us posted! Lori J.
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 8, 2005 - 1:45 pm:
Dr. O, they are going to ship the x-ray back, but the farrier up there got the x-ray today, and called to advise me to wait for another 3 weeks before taking off the shoe and trimming. He said that he has slow hoof growth, and since there is not much sole there, and he is growing out pretty straight to hold off for another 3 weeks so as not to change the angle. He said that his angle is due to a club foot problem, not a laminitis. There was some hoof wall separation, due to someone cutting his heel to short, putting stress on that tendon/ligiment. He said the only way make a fast big change would be to cut the check ligiment, but felt that keeping him in this raised heel shoe for a while would keep him comfortable while his foot grew. I don't have much to go on. I do know that the bump on his coronary band is disappearing, flattening out to normal now, and his hooves otherwise look really good. He runs and plays, seems to only limp when the ground is frozen. So does this sound like good advice? I know this is hard for you to comment on not knowing the horse. I will post his x-rays when they return them. Thanks
suz
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 8, 2005 - 1:49 pm:
thanks lori, I am wondering if levis foot angle has been this way for quite sometime, and just excacerbated by the improper trimming back in august. He was always lame for 2 or 3 days after a trimming. And we had this vertical toe crack for about 1 year before this major episode. The vet and farrier both feel this is a congenital issue, and both have said get on him and ride, get the blood flowing to that foot.
Every horse is different I guess  Aren't they lucky to have such good humans like us to love them
suz
|
Member:
Johnsonl
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 8, 2005 - 4:46 pm:
Susan, Yes...they ARE lucky to have us to love them! But, of course these critters of ours are worth it! :-) Sounds like there are, indeed, several issues you've had to deal with concerning Levi and his feet. What a frustrating puzzle for you to deal with! Problems and recoveries are somewhat unique to be sure, I just wanted to "push" the Happy Hoof product a bit because I've become a believer in its ability to provide all the right stuff for proper and strong hoof growth. Having seen its results in Buckeye, and my friend's horse that was at death's door, I'm a believer. Anyway, I'm looking forward to Levi's continued progress. Hope that one day you and I will be aboard our horses again, cantering around without worry! Take care, Lori J.
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Tuesday, Feb 8, 2005 - 9:48 pm:
Lori, I looked up the Happy Hoof, and it seems to be a product of Florida local, nothing up here in Iowa. It does sound similar to the Nutrina Safe Choice that I have ordered to try with Levi! I have him on cleaned oats and 2 oz ABC Hoof Supplement 2 x day.
He has a very thin coat and mane, actually looks like a baldy on his forelock. I hope I can find a feed that will improve his coat, keep his weight down and be low in carbs.
He is such a chow hound, he loves to eat
suz
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 9, 2005 - 7:24 am:
Susan what does your horse, a daily feeding of oats, and the flake of alfalfa weigh?
DrO
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Wednesday, Feb 9, 2005 - 11:07 am:
Dr. O, Levi weighs about 1100 lbs, I have not had him weighed lately, he was up to 1250 last year, so he has a tendancy to put weight on. the oats weigh 2 lbs 2 x day + 2oz 2 x day ABC Hoof Supplement, Alfalfa is pretty leafy and green and weighs about 5 lbs once a day. If I feed him too much alfalfa he gets hyperactive. I am waiting for the feed store to get the safe choice feed in to switch him to, will that give him more of what he needs to grow some hoof?
suz
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 - 7:16 am:
I should have asked this earlier: what is the quality of the brome hay. What I am trying to figure out is if in your effort to decrease weight and activity level that you got the total protein of the diet to low. 5lbs alfalfa should take care of this unless the brome is very stemmy. Not knowing what is in the supplement or the Safe Choice I cannot comment on them.
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2005 - 6:11 pm:
Unfortunately the brome hay is not the greatest, probably more ruffage, than nutritious, but I have no idea how to check that. We bailed it from our neighbors waterway. this is farm country, so there is a lot of dried corn stalks in it too. We grow our own alfalfa, which is very nice, and clean, but seems to put weight on Levi, makes the old guy get the runs, and Levi also gets too energetic for not working much.
The safe choice is supposed to be a low carbohydrate complete feed good for horses with Laminitis issues. Nutrena is the company that makes it. The ABC Hoof supplement has biotin, plus minerals, antioxidants etc. etc. I will have to read the actual bucket, if I can find my glasses to read the small print. I think there was a post recently about the Safe Choice Complete feed by some others, I will have to look back.
the x-ray is too dark to scan, so I can not send it along.
He seems to be doing well, everyone says to get him working, circulating the blood. Maybe he needs a good massage
thanks
suz
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 - 7:15 am:
With very stemmy hay and just a bit of alfalfa your horse might have protein and vitamin issues. You should accurately weigh all the foodstuffs and using a 6% protein for the brome and 20% protein for the alfalfa calculate what the total percent protein of the diet is. After all hoof horn is almost 100% protein. For more on all this see Care of the Hoof: an Overview and follow the important links that apply.
DrO
|
Member:
Quatro
|
Posted on Saturday, Mar 5, 2005 - 5:44 pm:
Dr. O, Well the farrier came out 3 weeks later yesterday. I did not bother to have an x-ray done, it did not seem to me that levi's feet grew very much. The farrier confirmed that he did not have much growth. This has been 9 weeks since his last resetting of these rocker shoes. This farrier does not like the rocker shoe, and thinks that this is why he does not have much hoof growth because of no contact with the ground. However, Levi has been completely sound, so I don't want to loose that. He is taking the previous x-ray to a vet that he works with in Nebraska to get his opinion. My other 2 horses were done 6 weeks ago and they did not need done either. Is this unusual in cold country. I have friends who trim their horses feet in the fall and then again in the spring. Once they are on grass they tend to grow out more.
I guess my question is, is it ok to have slow hoof growth, and as long as he is happy and sound, should i just not worry about it. Also, do you think I should get him out of these rocker shoes?
Thanks
I really have been too busy with my kennels in the last 6 weeks to spend any time with my horses, pick their feet, throw some food at them and give them a smooch or 2 so I am glad he is not requiring much attention.
I read your advice about the protein percentage, and honestly I am too mathmatically challanged to understand all that.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Mar 6, 2005 - 7:54 am:
Let's make it simple: be sure each 1000 lb horse gets, besides free choice grass hay, at least 8 lbs of alfalfa daily.
If your horse is sound, and you are doing all you can to promote hoof growth I would not worry. Concerning the shoeing I would follow the advice of your vet and farrier.
DrO
|
|
|
