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  Discussion on Reaction to vaccine, again
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Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 - 3:54 pm:

My gelding has again had a reaction to a vaccine. The last time was after his fall shots in which he got E/W/T and flu and strangles. I thought for sure it was either the flu or strangles or the combination. However, this time, he has presented the same symptoms, and he only got E/W/T and rabies.
The symptoms are that he seems depressed. He lays down, in strange places (today it was in front of the gate to the paddock while the barn manager was taking another horse in). He will get up when asked, and has normal gut sounds and respiration and temp and capillary refill. He just wants to lay down and looks sleepy. The last time this happened, they treated it as colic, with banamine, and he felt better pretty quickly. He was, however, not quite right for about 3 days (not lame, but seemed sore) and developed a large lump that didn't go away for over a week.
What can I do so that this doesn't happen again? I already called the vet and he was surprised that one of those vaccines could have caused this.
It HAD to be it, however. Same exact symptoms, same timing. I don't know if it will play out the same as last time as I do plan on buting him this time, which I didn't last time as we thought he had coliced.
Just wanted everyone to know.

Oh, on a totally seperate note, I can't see any of the postings on the web site. The pages come up blank.
Alicia
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 - 4:27 pm:

Hi, Alicia,
I'd try a vaccine from a different manufacturer. This does not mean that one vaccine is good and the other one bad, it is just that some horses show sensitivity to some ingredients.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 - 7:50 am:

This is a fairly common reaction to vaccination Alicia with perhaps a 1 to 3% incidence and it does seem more commonly the respiratory vaccines, though evidently not in your case. Christos has a good point as most of us think it is the adjuvant that most likely causes the reaction and this does vary by manufacturer. Besides trying different manufacturer we provide a regimen to minimize or many cases completely avoid these reactions at, Care for Horses » Vaccines & Coggin's Test » Vaccines and Adverse Reactions.
DrO
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 - 8:25 am:

Alicia, where are you haveing problems getting posts downloaded, we are not having other reports of problems.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 - 11:18 am:

It is just when I try to look at old discussions. I get to the page, but nothing shows up in the right window except the header. It is not happening today, however. I have a feeling it just takes longer to show up sometimes, but I actually left it up for about 5 minutes yesterday with no luck. Today the problem is miraculously cured.
I do plan on trying a different brand next time. I will also pre-bute (I was going to do it pre flu/rhino, but I never imagined the reaction was with the vaccines we gave this time!).
Thanks,
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 - 5:58 pm:

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I find if the page is loading slowly (I give it 5 to 10 seconds) I click the right button while the pointer is on the main frame and then click the refresh button. This often delivers the page quickly. We are currently having the throughput enlarged to solve the problem. We hope this will be accomplished by the end of next week.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Thursday, Apr 21, 2005 - 11:02 am:

Update. Guinness got West Nile and Flu Rhino Friday )the 15th). Both Fort Dodge (the only one my vet buys). I gave them. I gave him dex first, waited an hour, then gave him one shot in each hindquarter, using the guidlines in your injection article. He was perfect, didn't move a muscle. Did NOT have the reaction I spoke of above. Did swell a bit in the right hind (I think that was the flu side), so the barn manger turned him out that night and he came back in with much reduced swelling (we are on day only right now, but he got about 20 hours that day).
I started him on bute the day of, and continued with two a day until Monday (the 18th).
I rode him Tuesday (19th), and while grooming, he reacted to pressure on his right hind muscle by picking up the foot and kicking repeatedly (didn't connect, just showing it was ouchy). So, I upped him again to two a day. Will ride again today.
Just wanted to report my "findings" in case anyone else has this problem.
Our barn decided not to give Potomac this year, but I am going to give it anyway in a few weeks. We also are going to give strangles though the intranasal. I am going to follow the same procedure both times.
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Apr 24, 2005 - 1:50 pm:

I am uncertain about the use of dexamethasone pre-vaccination Alicia. It may reduce the efficacy of the vaccine. Did you try bute alone and have it not work?
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Monday, Apr 25, 2005 - 9:57 am:

All I know is that it worked. He did not have the reaction the day of. He still did get sore at the sites of the injections, and it lasted over a week after the injections. The reason we tried this is because the bute alone did not work. I am going to get my own vaccines next time (not Fort Dodge, which is all my vet gives) and do them myself with the dex.
Alicia
Member:
Deggert

Posted on Monday, Apr 25, 2005 - 1:04 pm:

Hi Alicia
I have had some experience with vaccine reactions. I hope that you will evaluate the risk vs benefit of non life threatening vaccines and also, as you suggested try another vaccine company. I have found that I have had more severe responses with Fort Dodge on horses that tend to react, may be adjuvent (carrier) that they use, don't know. I would caution you against vaccinating yourself most importantly with horses that react. It doesn't matter how experienced you are at shots, its just that you have the added confidence and follow up with your vet there. Steroid use is not exactly safe either. Dr O can probably validate this or not, but there is a risk of founder with steriod use, to do this for a flu vaccine does not seem beneficial. Just my thoughts and good luck with your boy. Debbie
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Monday, Apr 25, 2005 - 1:32 pm:

Debbie,
I am required by my boarding contract to give them. My vet has no issue with me giving them even with his past history. In the past, the last three times he reacted before this last time, it wasn't caught right away, and a shot of banamine got rid of the symptoms and follow up bute. The first time they thought he was colicing, and the fact that it resolved with banamine helped to make everyone beleive that is what happened. I used the dex because my vet recommended it, and it DID work. He did not react, and has only the soreness at the site that he also usually gets.
I am aware of steriods causing problems, but I would be surprised if one dose twice a year would cause a problem. Maybe I am wrong? I don't know, Dr O?
Oh, Dr. O., why did you think it might make the vaccine less effective?
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 26, 2005 - 7:20 am:

Concerning dex and founder, though this is a very common thought, there is very little support for this long term held notion so from that stand point this is OK. However dex is a powerful immune modulating drug which almost certainly reduces your horse's responses to vaccines, the question is using your regimen are they still protective, this is not studied.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 26, 2005 - 10:45 am:

So, one dose one hour before could negate an entire vaccine? Seems unlikely. I guess I can get titers run to make sure they were effective.
Alia
New Member:
Angelvet

Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 11:41 am:

Alicia,
You may want to investigate the new
boehringer flu/rhino vaccine, Calvenza as an option. After the initial boosters, you have the option of using it intranasal, which may reduce some of the reaction inducing shots. It also reportedly is as long lasting as the intranasal flu vaccines(up to 6 months).It would seem the fewer injections you need to do, the better.
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 12:18 pm:

Angel,
That is something I will certainly investigate.
Alicia
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