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  Discussion on Considering doing retirement board - Any Advice???
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Member:
mysi

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 11:46 am:

So now I have this big place in NC and want more horses around. I plan to buy one more for me to ride since Moose won't be doing alot. I don't want to board horses with owners that are here everyday to ride because I don't really want that chaos at my home but I want other horses here besides my own and am considering taking in 4 retirement horses or horses that are laid up for 6mo to a year. I was wondering what the best way is to set it up. Is it more common to pay board every month or do they pay just a lump sum and you care for the horse forever? What responsibilities do you have as far as vet, farrier, etc or is the owner responsible? Do people have a problem with people abandoning their horse and not paying? I don't know if anyone here does this or knows someone but any advice you could give me would be great.
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 12:03 pm:

Hi Melissa,

I'm going to try to talk you out of this plan!

Yes-- you'll have the potential for people abandoning their horses and not paying. You'll also have the problem of horses that will require increasing amounts of medical care (injuries, illness, chronic age-related conditions like Cushings, founder) and owners that can't see the horse and refuse to agree to/pay for the care.

The typical set-up for this would be monthly plus expenses, with a pre-negotiated contract about emergency intervention (colic surgery?) and chronic conditions.

If they don't pay, you can file an agister's lien and eventually end up owning the broken retired horse. Or sue them. In the meantime, there's the poor horse standing there.

I've run two boarding operations, and your plan would be the last thing on my list. To be all alone with needy, impaired, "DrOpped off" horses that will have a relatively high incidence of crisis problems and nursing care seems like it might just break your heart. There is no money in boarding horses like this, and a lot of gray hairs.

Consider a plan to attract a few considerate like-minded folks (nice people with nice horses) who can help with the labor and worry, watch the place if you travel, and will be considerate of the facility. These set-ups take some trial and error, but can be stable and break-even financially if you take your time letting the people find you.
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 1:31 pm:

Melissa,
I have to agree with Elizabeth. Your thought is a good one at heart but the practicality is tough. Where I board, it is a family farm, not a large commercial business. They only accept 2-3 "active" boarding horses (i.e those who's riders train / actually ride) and they have 2 retirees. In the 3.5 years I've boarded there, I have NEVER seen the owners of the retired horses (actually, 1 horse & 1 pony). I can't speak to whether or not the bills are paid, but I can say that if it weren't for the barn owner's diligence, the 2 retirees would almost never see a brush or hoof pick. I will sometimes go out to the pastures and give a good grooming to one or both. Because of the barn owner, they certainly aren't neglected and their basic needs are met, but they don't receive the love & TLC that they deserve.
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 3:52 pm:

Melissa, have you considered fostering horses from a reputable rescue organization? The US Equine Rescue League (www.userl.org) is active in North Carolina, and in fact there was an article about them this week in the News and Observer:

www.wral.com/news/state/story/2230818

They are desparately in need of homes and you can get reimbursed for most of your expenses if you can't afford them. This isn't going to interest you if you are looking to make a little money...but it pays excellent "feel good" dividends.
Member:
mysi

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 7:32 pm:

This is exactly why I asked! Thank you so much, I'm definitely not going to do it. I'm not looking to make money nor am I looking to go broke and I will if I do that because my heart is too big when it comes to horses. I had considered fostering but again, I would keep every horse because I become to attached. I did go on that website Terri and I found two horses I would be interested in for me (to ride). Thank you for that link, I filled out an adoption app so I hope to hear from them soon. I would rather adopt a horse that needs a home then pay a breeder/broker for one. All my dogs and cats are from the pound.

As for boarding, no retirement boarders but if a really nice person and horse come along then we'll see...
Member:
gailkin

Posted on Sunday, Jan 6, 2008 - 7:25 pm:

Melissa,
If you end up adopting a horse from a rescue group, some of them have a specific contract you must sign and usually a reasonable fee. If you ever want to get rid of the rescue horse, it must be returned to them. The disadvantage is that you wouldn't be able to get any money for all the time, training, etc. you would put into a rescue horse if you wanted to sell it. But the advantage is that if you keep the rescue horse, the expenses are deductible as a donation on your income tax. This can be substantial with hay at $18 per bale in CA and vet bills, training, etc. Check with the organization and with your tax person first. Of course I never plan to get rid of either of my horses and have made plans for them in my will should something happen to me. I think your solution sounds perfect for you.
Gail
Member:
mysi

Posted on Sunday, Jan 6, 2008 - 8:23 pm:

Yes there is a contract I have to sign like that. But, I would never get rid any of my animals which is the reason I could not foster them. Like my pony that my step daughter grew out of and lost interest in is now my lawn ornament even though I've had people offer me $15,000 for her. I can't imagine selling her and then have someone run her into the ground.

Funny, I have plans for my horses in my will as well, my husband thought I was nuts.
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Monday, Jan 7, 2008 - 3:51 pm:

Melissa, that is great news! I am currently fostering a little Arabian, Flash on the USERL website, who is smart and courageous but has so many fear issues to overcome...he was severely neglected and apparently physically abused as well. Out of curiosity, which horses are you looking at?

I hope your experience with USERL is positive. Mine has been, and I believe they do really good work with a reasonable mindset (some rescue folks can kind of go overboard in their zeal and attitude). They put a lot of emphasis on educating owners.

I believe Flash has found his "forever" home and I've asked for one of the Thoroughbreds that were rescued in Berryville, VA (also on website) as my next foster. Yes, I do get attached....but I feel like I can do more good by helping as many horses as I can.

Let me know how things turn out for you!
Member:
mysi

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 8, 2008 - 9:33 am:

Terri,
The horse I am most interested in is Beauty. I want a horse that is atleast 16 hands and broad not narrow. She is such a pretty girl. I just have to wait for my application to be approved and then hopefully I can go see her. It doesn't say where she is though.
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 8, 2008 - 12:21 pm:

She IS lovely--I noticed her yesterday. I can easily find out where she's located...I will try and check for you today.
Member:
mysi

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 8, 2008 - 6:11 pm:

Thanks Terri. She is lovely isn't she. I am also going to look at some horses at a temporary rescue/foster facility close to me in Greensboro. Apparently there was a rash of people surrendering their horses here due to hay prices and this farm took a lot in. I am going Sunday to see what they have. I have heard some horror stories about mass amounts of abandoned horses in NC because of the DrOught and hay prices here. Funny I still think I'm getting a deal at $10 a bale, we paid $18-20 in Florida.
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 9, 2008 - 9:47 am:

Same thing going on here in VA...USERL has been overwhelmed in the Richmond area. I spread the word to people who I think might even CONSIDER taking on a foster horse. But with the hay...it is a tough, nearly impossible sell. I am so grateful that I stocked up over the summer with hay from NY...it was affordable and great quality. I plan to do that again next year.

Waiting to hear back on Beauty's details from the Richmond regional director...will let you know what I hear.
Member:
mysi

Posted on Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 - 7:49 pm:

Terri - any word on Beauty? I still haven't heard back on my application or her.
Member:
chrism

Posted on Sunday, Jan 13, 2008 - 2:56 pm:

Back to your original question. I do think there is a need for a care facility for older horses. My older horse is coming 25 (argh, where did the time go?) and is, at the moment, boarded at a friend's farm and leased by a student. A good, for the moment solution.

I investigated donating her to a therapeutic riding program, but felt she didn't have the temperament needed. I also feel responsible for her well being.

If I did not have a home for her, I'd be interested in a retirement facility. I'd pay. I'd stop in every week or two to visit. I think I'd be a good, responsible owner.

So there are those of us out there. I guess you'd need to chose carefully if you decided to go down this path.

Additionally, I would be concerned what to do if the horse was ill or injured and needed vet care, or even to be humanely destroyed. Even with an absent, but involved owner, this could be a delay that would cause suffering unless there was a way to give you the authority to make life/death decisions. Of course, if I didn't know you, that would be hard for me to do.

Just a perspective for consideration.
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 - 10:57 am:

Melissa, I heard from the adoption coordinator this morning. Beauty is in Indiana. If you are interested in pursuing adoption, the adoption cost can be offset by the shipping cost. I believe they ask for 7 days to get a response once you fill out an adoption application which may be why you hadn't yet gotten a response. I will be talking to the coordinator later this morning about something else...I will remember to ask if she knows any further details on Beauty.

There are many OTTBs in rehab at the moment...they will be coming available in the near future.

Terri
Member:
mysi

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 - 1:39 pm:

Thanks Terri. I thought she was in NC or VA. I'll keep my eye on the site to see when others come up. Thanks you again for looking into it for me.
New Member:
minge

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 - 2:27 pm:

Melissa, have you tried www.horseadoption.com? They are located in Ohio and I've gotten several nice horses from them. Although these are all OTTB's some have a quieter disposition than others. I have found them to be quite honest in their assessment of the horses listed and after you have an application on file they will actually try to give you a call when a horse comes in that they feel will suit you. Good luck.
Member:
erika

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 11:45 am:

Melissa, Like Christine, I think there is a good market for retirement barns! The farm up the road from me has over a hundred horses in huge pastures with round bales and rolling pasture.

Most of the horses are old timers who are not ridden anymore. The board is the cheapest around $175 last I heard. Not many active riders board there because the pastures are so huge, tough to catch for a quick ride, I guess. They do come in for hard feed twice a day, though.

The owners of the farm said there have been horses there for years that people stopped paying their board, but they have so many that they take up the slack.

I think they are the happiest looking horses around. Always plenty of company, food, and fresh air and sunshine. If I were a horse, I'd prefer to go there for retirement to live the way horses were intended.

I don't know how practical it would be for only one or two retirees, but I know there is a market.
Good luck!
Erika
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 12:19 pm:

Well, a demand doesn't mean a market if you're the person feeding those horses, and feeling responsible for quality medical care and humane end-of-life decisions.


Let's do some math. I'm going to use Colorado as my basis, so I need to pay for water, and supplement feed year round.

Per horse per year:
3 tons hay/year @ $165/ton stacked: $495
2lbs concentrate/day (Sr or other): $250
($17 per 50lb)
Water (8gal/day; heaters shared) est. $200
hoof trimming $180
($45/trim, 4x/yr min)
de-worming $ 40
($10/pop avg; 4xyr min)
Vaccinations (self/ 3-way + WNV) $ 40

$1205/year for very minimal care. Note in this model that labor is free, maintenance like manure removal is free, the horse has no equipment (halters), never sees a vet, never gets sick, there are no lights, fences, shelters, or other capital equipment costs, and you're still not going to get real far at $175 month.

There is always demand for services below cost. The question is whether you can get demand for a good service fairly priced.
Member:
mysi

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 12:44 pm:

Elizabeth, I agree, and your on the lower end of cost I think. The vet care for an older horse alone is high. I have Moose who's not really old, but has arthritis and the upkeep if that in supps/RX, costs about $200month.

I'm not considering doing the retirement board because the expenses will be high and if the owner isn't atleast covering the cost, I can't afford to do it. I also didn't look far enough down the road to...the end...and I CANNOT handle that.

I have never been through the death of an animal yet in my life, I have 3 dogs, 2 cats and my horse and pony, all of which are entering into the older parts of their lives. I am not going to do well emotionally with that decision when the time comes. I do not need to add to that.

Thank you everyone for your input. You all are so great!
Member:
erika

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 12:49 pm:

Can you do this on a small scale? Probably not. My observation of their price of $175 was more out of astonishment than recommendation, but they seem to manage.

Ha ha, I guess we are lucky here,Elizabeth, but I don't go through nearly as much hay as that for my horses. My problem is too much pasture!Most years I only hay between late December and March.
I would imagine that NC has long pasture season, too.

I do think it depends on where you live as to the costs. I agree that you certainly won't make money, but the sheer volume of the operation by me is probably what keeps them going. But they have hundreds of acres of pasture and streams and ponds for water sources. They grow their own hay, and reuse the manure for fertilizer.

Melissa, I think if you are careful who you take on, you can find someone to board a retired horse with you. Make sure you have in your boarding contract the "what if's" like what happens if they don't pay for board, or veterinary expenses, etc. It may be tough to do, but it may have to be written in that you have the right to make decisions if the owners aren't willing to pay up.
Member:
terrilyn

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 12:54 pm:

Melissa, can I email you info about a wonderful prospect that was just made available for adoption? She's a bit closer, in VA.

I don't see an email address for you in your profile. You can reach me at thaynie@ciber.com if you'd like the info...
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 12:57 pm:

Hi Erika,

Wow. Too much pasture. Trying to imagine that.

Melissa made a good point even so-- at $175/month, there's no way those horses receive any medical care. With the price of hay (and fuel to put it up) where it is, they may be more expensive than those folks realize ("lose a little on each one, and make it up in volume.").

Too much pasture. Too much pasture. Really? Do you at least have giant bugs or vampire bats or something to offset the excess grass problem?
Member:
erika

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2008 - 1:09 pm:

LOL! Yes, I have even invited friends to use some of my pasture. We mow constantly, and with one horse with laminitic history, and all easy keepers--well, it kills me to just keep mowing!

I don't know how the farm does it at $175. I don't believe that trimming or veterinary is included at that price. I do know they worm regularly, though, and most of the horses look in great shape. They keep paddocks for the sick or the ones that need special care/feeding. And I have never heard a complaint about the care there.
No frills, but good care.

They are an older farming couple, though, and I know they work very HARD at it. The place is one of the most beautiful farms around and is always neat as a pin. Must be a labor of love for the most part. We all worry about what will happen when they are too old to do it.

The huge pastures have got to be the key here.
Member:
chrism

Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 - 10:52 am:

Speaking for the NC area, we are in the midst of a long DrOught and our pastures are essentially done and have been. Hay is coming from long distances and you are lucky if you can find bales for $10 each. Not sure what the round bales are going for since I board.

My older gal is in a cost plus board arrangement. (She has a stall and pasture and can be in/out at will.) She is leased for $300 per month, and I chip in the incremental rest which runs about $50 a month. This doesn't include vet or supplements, but all else.

To get cheaper in NC, you would need to keep a horse in a more rural setting and be satisfied with a lower quality of hay. One type of hay has been implicated in increased cases of colic, so this may not be a way to economize.

Just a perspective from the old north state.
Member:
mysi

Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2008 - 9:24 pm:

Yes, I'm in NC Christine and I just moved from FL in Dec. I paid $10 for good T&A and $14 for straight alfalfa. But considering I use to pay close to $20, so I still feel like I got a deal. lol. My pastures were still ok too, until the snow and sleet this morning, which probably wiped me out of what was left. I in the rural area too, but would never choose a lower quality of hay.
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