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Discussion on Horse Treats
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Member:
Horse4u
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 29, 2005 - 9:05 pm:
Are there any fruits or vegetables a horse should not have? I gave my horse a few grapes one day and she loved them. Someone told me that raisins are toxic to horses. (I wouldn't give her raisins anyway). I only give small amounts as a treat when she has worked hard or if I am teaching her new things, I find that the treats work well as she is very food oriented.
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 30, 2005 - 6:58 pm:
As far as I know raisins are dried up grapes, which indeed are toxic to many animals, up to the point of killing them.
If I were you I'd stick to crackers, brown bread, turnips, carrots, even hard mints, touch wood none of my horses have ever had colic but I am very conservative in what I give to them.
I have always find that unless it is right out poison, they will not react immediately to what you give them. For example in the case of raisins, the animal can eat raisins to their hearts content with no side effect and maybe three months later the liver damage becomes obvious and then is when the problems start.
To each its own, but really the fool proof system in my oppinion is to stick to what they would normally eat in the wild...
Best regards
Liliana
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 7:40 am:
Whoa Liliana,
Though I am surprised to find a single case of raisin poisoning reported in a dog, generally grapes and raisins are not considered poisonous to any animals. There is no text to go along with the article so I am uncertain what was going on with the dog. As Liliana suggests, feeding large quanities of unusual feed stuffs to any animal is not recommended, but I don't think a few grapes or raisins are going to hurt anything.
DrO
Note from DrO, see the new post below on 10 cases of dog poisoning by raisins.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 8:41 am:
I'm quite certain that raisins will not poison a dog. I have a 3 year old daughter and a 12 year old English Setter. You put together a small child with a hand full of raisins and there's no doubt that more raisins will end up on the floor than in the kid. My dog learned very quickly that sitting under the table at meal/snack time is to her advantage. Although we do not feed the dog table food as a rule, she's faster at "clean-up" than I am. 
So, as a general rule, I agree with you Liliana that animals shouldn't be fed too much people food, but a few judicious treats won't harm a thing.
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Member:
Goolsby
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 9:54 am:
Fran
I had to laugh about the rasins. I have a 2 yr. old grandson that loves rasins and have the same problem with finding rasins all over as I dont have an inside dog to clean up, but the cat sits under his chair at every meal.
Vicki,
My horses love mints, but I am trying to use dried apples instead.
We had a thread concerning what peoples horses liked for treats if you havent read it yet it is very interesting.
Colleen
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Member:
Vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 11:57 am:
Liliana must have read some of the same articles I did -- from some dog sites, about what is toxic to them. There were articles by Vets (describing individual cases, dogs, and treatments attempted) stating grapes or raisins (even a small amount) can cause death to dogs due to massive and sudden kidney destruction from those "treats." It also mentioned chocolate, onions, macadamia nuts and too much garlic, but the articles seemed to imply the grapes/raisins posed the biggest danger with regard to a small amount being a potential problem. I will have to go back and search some of the sites sometime -- there is a lot of bogus info. on the internet and it can be hard to know what to believe sometimes, but remember those articles seemed very official.
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Member:
Goolsby
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 12:23 pm:
I have heard of chocolate being harmful to dogs, but my dog (rottweiler) had chocolate throughout her life. We had to put her down last fall at the ripe age of 18 because she could no longer get up on her own due to hip problems.
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Member:
Canter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 1:19 pm:
Hmm, Colleen...if I could get my cats to clean up the floor like my dog does after my daughter eats, then I'd NEVER have to sweep up after mealtime!! . The cats' ideas of clean up is to swat the raisins, crackers, vegetables, whatever, under a nearby chair or even into the next room...
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Member:
Goolsby
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 2:42 pm:
Fran
the cat is a selective "cleaner". She waits for the cheese and other "good" stuff to DrOp. I still have to sweep up the rasins.
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Member:
Liliana
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 3:58 pm:
Yes indeed I read the reports in the internet... after one of my dogs die of kideney failure, and what came up was that several dogs in the USA had died of kideney (renal) failure as a result of.
 Another bit of info seeing that cats came into the conversation. If you have a fat cat (who doesn't) keep them fat, if they loose weight they get renal disfunction.
Now maybe with the amount of animals I have had through my life, (Just here in Cozumel we have 17 dogs 15 cats 6 horses, gold fish ...) perhaps one of them had to die of one of this weird causes, which indeed may be one in a million. 
Liliana
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 31, 2005 - 6:15 pm:
We had the cleanest floors ever when my youngest son was in the high chair stage. We were raising a robin,which sat on top of the chair back, and two cats and a dog positioned themselves under the chair. There wasn't a crumb anywhere that didn't get eaten. Never seemed to hurt anyone, including my son.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Friday, Apr 1, 2005 - 7:31 am:
Liliana,
I know a barn where they feed the leftovers of pressing grapes for wine (whatever they're called).
Judging from their horse's condition this must be really poor food, but it does not seem to be toxic. They have more than 30 horses and they've been doing this for decades.
Raisins, however, I'd be careful with. Sometimes they're heavily sprayed with insecticides and preservatives which may be very toxic to horses. Rinsing them well is, I believe, a necessary minimum precaution.
Christos
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Member:
Vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Apr 1, 2005 - 7:36 pm:
Humane Society website suggests not to give grapes or raisins to your dogs, which is in agreement with the original topic of conversation. Another website I have watched, relating to Labradors, lists raisins and grapes on the "No" list. It also lists sugarless candy that may contain a particular ingredient -- Xylitol. Also, no avacados for horses. Excuse me -- I am off to read the labels on all my low-carb foods for "Xylitol." Have a great weekend!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Oct 24, 2005 - 7:13 am:
While reviewing the literature for another post I found this and thought it should be posted here:
J Vet Diagn Invest. 2005 May;17(3):223-31.
Canine renal pathology associated with grape or raisin ingestion: 10 cases.
Morrow CM, Valli VE, Volmer PA, Eubig PA.
Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Urbana, IL 61802, USA.
Ten dogs suffered acute renal failure after ingesting > or = 3 g/kg (dry matter) of grapes or raisins. All dogs had degeneration or necrosis (or both) of proximal renal tubules with basement membranes remaining intact, and epithelial regeneration was observed in 5 out of 10 cases. Mineralized tubular debris or granular to proteinaceous casts (or both) were present in all cases. A golden-brown, globular, intracellular pigment of varying amounts and sizes was observed in 6 out of 10 cases with variable reaction with Prussian blue. Multifocal fibrinous arteritis of the large colon was seen in 2 out of 5 cases with globulin insudation of vessel wall demonstrated by immunohistochemical staining for immunoglobulin (Ig)G and IgM. Mineral analysis on frozen renal tissue from 2 out of 2 cases revealed mildly elevated Ca:P ratio in both. Clinically significant observations were preservation of the integrity of basement membranes after grape-induced tubular injury and presence of early epithelial regeneration. Thus, recovery may be possible if anuria is aggressively managed. With respect to potential pathophysiologic mechanisms, further research into the roles of calcium homeostasis, vascular reactivity, and the significance of the golden-brown pigment is indicated.
DrO
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