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Discussion on Curious about keeping warm
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jan 21, 2008 - 11:28 pm:
Dr.O. Hanks diet thread has me wondering if horses can/do fluff up their coats as the weather gets colder. Tonight it is snowing like a blizzard and blowing a good north wind. I can see the horses are half way up the mountainous hill that catches the north wind, pawing away oblivious to the cold and wind apparently. In the morning they will have icicles hanging off their hair that are about 6 in. long. I'm sure. Does their hair really protect them that much? Should I lock them in the lean when it is like this? When I fed them tonight I gave them extra hay, because they were already covered in snow and it was a bit windy then. I do not want to blanket for various reasons. Their lean to is deeply bedded with shavings and they use it sometime in the night because they are covered with shavings in the mornings, I see them come in usually around dawn. I worry about the old girl more than the geldings, but the last few winters she didn't go out with them because her arthritis bothered her too much to tromp thru the deep snow. This winter she is and I GUESS that is a good sign?
Thanks
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 7:47 am:
Diane,
Good questions. Hank's diet thread had me wondering the same thing, and I also wonder about this feeding more when it's colder. It makes sense, yet I have more questions than answers. Like my hay up here from last summer was heavy on the alfalfa. Not a good choice for feeding more. And if I put them in, just to ease my mind, is that good or bad for keeping them warm? The stalls have half doors only, so my thinking is unless it's raining,sleeting, and windy, maybe they stay warmer moving around outside?
I think the problem us horse moms have is that we apply human traits to them too much. I seem to freeze from November to May! I have no desire to romp in the snow, although I can be talked into snow shoeing on a sunny, windless day.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 8:06 am:
I know Angie, my horses have always have been out 24/7. The only time they stay in the lean is when it is raining/ with wind. They seem to be night grazers (pawers). In previous winters when I gave them lots of grass hay in the lean to they never left it and became obese. I suppose movement=warmth and pawing thru 10 in. of snow has to burn some calories . They steam the snow off themselves during the day, then are wet....complete with icicles. Their undercoats are dry tho so I guess nature has provided them well. Just hard to believe hair can keep them warm in these adverse conditions....do they fluff their hair?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 8:13 am:
Diane E. what does the article say about assessing horses for being too cold and requiring further assistance?
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 8:50 am:
Well it says if they are shivering...they are cold.
My problem with this I guess is I don't want them to get to that point, yet don't want to overfeed either. I know the old mare has some thermoregulation problems, and the 20 something yr. old gelding has cushings. If they get to the point of shivering I am not sure I have the facilitys to make them more comfortable. I don't even own a blanket, but I guess there are ways around that. Feeding them the way most articles suggest would result in very fat horses. (been there). So really the question comes down to are they better off out moving pawing for morsels or locked up with hay in front of them getting fat?
The windchill is -25 below this morning and they were pacing the fence waiting for breakfast, icicles in tow...quite wound up, but not cold. They do act as if they are starved, but they always do . I really have to keep the weight off these horses, because of their multiple problems. This very cold snap doesn't seem to have an end in sight for awhile. Thanks
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Member:
srobert
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 10:53 am:
Diane: I have some of the same questions. My horses have always been easy keepers and seem oblivious to the cold. But, my new guy - who came here from a colder climate - came in shivering last night. He is big - 17 hands and it is a challenge to keep weight on him (young and still growing I think). Also, we have had very mild weather up until this recent cold snap so maybe he just wasn't "prepared" yet for the cold. Anyway, I threw a blanket on, gave him lots of hay and took the blanket off an hour or so later. He seems okay this morning, but I'm thinking I need to feed him throughout the day. Currently, they are fed around 8 am (outside) and then again around 6 (they come in to separate stalls at night). I think maybe he just has more "real estate" to keep warm than my arab and morgan. They are round little furballs...if I feed everybody free choice as a groupI suspect they will get fatter and he will get thinner - and colder!
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 12:23 pm:
Since most of us are not going out in the middle of the night to see if the horses are shivering my plan has always been for the SHORT TERM feed extra hay as needed to keep the gut fermantation going as it is their heat source. This wisdom came from an old cowboy and my vet not just me ! As to blankets only if a long duration ice storm happened, as horses are much better at dealing with cold and wind ,than excessive heat! All that being said I have looked at our double garage as possible 4 stall barn for whimpy mom!  Cindy
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 4:46 pm:
DianeE your horses are individuals, that live in a unique environment, that changes hourly. How do you calculate all those factors into a exact recommendation that guarantees to keep your horses comfortable? Not only is it impossible but even if such a calculation could be make it would be different for your individuals as in Shari's case, or your horses with their own special dietary need, and this calculation would change as the temperature, rain, and wind changes during the day. We give general recommendations in the article that if followed will work for 90% of the horses but you have to watch for those exceptions and there is only one way for measuring are the horses comfortable enough: are they shivering?
Though cindy says she does not check her horses in the middle of the night, how does she know her current regimen is working? The only objective answer is, "she does not see them shiver".
The idea that you do not ever want your horses to shiver is nice but I am afraid protecting them against every "perceived" discomfort, in combination with almost every horse owners lack of understanding of how cold tolerant horses are, is more likely to make your horses uncomfortably warm.
OK here is a test: when do you know when you have your horses too warm?
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 6:49 pm:
See that's where my problem lies, I understand they are individuals, but all 3 are very easy keepers. The "standard" doesn't work for me. I really am not neurotic about them being cold...a little shiver would probably do Hank some good...he is young tho. Overall I don't think letting them get to the point of shivering is a good idea, given the harsh conditions, I think getting them back to "comfortable" would be a task + make me feel bad. Normally I would up the hay and be happy....until they got fat and foundered....so that didn't work. I suppose there is a happy medium in there somewhere, I need to find it. I really don't perceive the horses are cold they do very well in the cold and enjoy it more than summer...it is these extended extreme conditions that get me concerned.
I know when the horses are too warm when they sweat, I get it Dr.O. but then don't we hose them down or put a fan on them? Unless you are speaking of winter. Thanks
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 8:44 pm:
I may not check them at midnight but I am out there at 530 AM which is weather wise the coldest reading of the day ! Besides as you say each one is different and with luck just as with a child you look at them and you know! Cindy
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 6:14 am:
What about arthritic horses? It is my understanding that they should be "kept warm", so whenever I remind myself that horses can cope with cold pretty well and decide not to blanket, I also remember that arthritis seemingly worsens in cold conditions so I end up standing there looking from blanket to arthritic horse with a large question mark over my head.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 6:39 am:
Yes DianeE and when they shiver we recommend you too follow the standard. Consider management changes, it is just that increased caloric intake is not an option for horses whose condition is pushing fat. All other options addressed in the article are available.
LL I would not treat the body temperature but the arthritis. During exacerbations of lameness I would consider the use of NSAID's and if I thought related to the cold would consider the recommendations in the article for keeping horses comfortable in the winter and then might consider a boot for the arthritic body part to keep it warmer. But though we treat many horses with arthritis this is not something we have seen to the point that it required a boot. There is another side of this coin. Stalling of some horses with arthritis may result in increased stiffness do to limiting exercise and this is something we do see.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 7:16 am:
Thanks Dr.O. I finally understand.... in a nutshell horses that are obese should be fed the "standard" when shivering is apparent. As stated before blanketing is the very last option, it wouldn't work well with my situation. The horses really aren't pushing obese they range from 5-6 on the bcs....and want to keep it that way. EVERY morning weatherbug is chirpping warnings about windchills and to pay careful attention to livestock and pets. Tonite the windchill is suppose to go down to as much as -45 . If you would indulge me one more question. They have their run-in shed, deeply bedded. In these conditions are they better off locked in that area with hay? or is it ok to let them out and make their own decision? Do horses have enough horse sense to stay out of the wind/cold given the option? Thanks
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 7:30 am:
Diane, Don't know if this helps. At my barn, 2 of the pastures have run in sheds. These horses are left out 24/7 except in the most extreme conditions (thunder storms, hail, etc). The horses without shelters are left out most of the time, but are brought in when the others are not. Anyway, I would have to say that most of the time, when I am out there to observe, the horses with shelter do choose to use it when the weather is awful (and remember, I'm in MI, so my conditions are similar to yours). I see them in there when it's wet and cold and when it's exceptionally windy and cold. These guys are blanketed, which is a difference in this situation vs yours, but none of the horses are easy keepers like yours. Three are young horses, in mild work and three are quite old (aprox 30+), with 1 of them a difficult keeper, in the past year (the barn owner does pay extra attention to him and will bring him in when the others are still left out).
So, what I'm basically saying is that yes, at least in my situation, the horses have enough sense to seek shelter.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 7:44 am:
Thanks Fran, I know mine use it during the day when the weather is bad, apparently they think they are ferral horses and do their majority of "grazing" at night. When the moon is full like now I can see them up on the hill in the middle of the night pawing away. Last night I gave them what I thought was plenty of hay. I saw their bodies out pawing around 2am. Given my job I am out walking in this for quite a few hours a day. I know I stay warm as long as I am moving....even sweat sometimes plowing thru all the snow. I would assume it is the same with the horses...tho a good wind can get me chilled.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 8:33 am:
When I fed this morning the horses had hay left over that they used for the bathroom....so obviously they prefer out pawing rather than in with hay....go figure.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 2:54 pm:
Diane, I am reading this thread with interest, because I am dealing with a balloon of a horse, too.
In response to your latest post, if you are finding leftover hay, in my opinion, you are feeding too much.
It sounds like you are thinking of your horse's gut as a simple furnace, where the more fuel you add, the more heat you get. It isn't that simple when you are dealing with digestion and metabolism, unfortunately.
The heat from fermentation in the gut will happen as long as the horse has SOME hay in there. It doesn't necessarily increase directly with volume.
The other heat created comes from metabolism within the cells. If there is more energy (calories) available than the horse can "burn" at any one time, the rest will quickly be stored as fat.
So, what I'm saying is, there doesn't need to be constant intake to stoke the metabolic/fermentation process. Feeding more than the maintenance amount will not produce greater heat, just greater fat. Is that clearer?
Earlier you asked if it was better to regulate the weight now, or in spring. I've seen pictures of your beautiful pastures, haven't I? My vote is for NOW. I know that it is hopeless for me to try to get weight off my fatty when there is any grass around. She's just too efficient!
I have an ongoing battle with my help to get him to cut back on the hay. I may have to hide it from him to get him to comply!
Anyway, my sympathy with the fat problem. Hope you aren't offended at my attempt to explain the heat thing.
Erika
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 7:15 pm:
Something to remember with regards to blankets.
A blanket will flatten the hair so when you blanket a horse with a winter coat you run the risk of making him colder.
When it is -25 or more I double blanket plus use a wool liner.
That is for my mare that wears a blanket all winter, she has no winter coat.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 7:21 pm:
Diane, I have never dealt with a 45 below zero wind chill, this might be a good question for your veterinarian or other experienced horse owners in your area. Ultimately you have to do what makes you comfortable.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 7:35 pm:
Lucky you Dr.O.. I did think about calling the vet today, but I didn't see his truck at the office.
Erika the reason they had hay left was because it was "yucky" very stemmy hay, they don't like it real well. So that's what they will be getting. I think from the articles I have read including Dr.O.'s free choice hay is one of the ways to keep the furnace burning. I will give them the hay they don't like....they can poop on it or eat it and I will feel better knowing at least it is there. They don't gain weight very fast on that hay and as I stated before they are not close to obese at this time.
It is suppose to finally warm up this weekend....but then freezing rain....what a winter we are having They will be locked in for that event.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 8:37 pm:
45 below!!! WOW, that's brutal!!! Do you go outside in that? I think I'd have to bring my horses in my house to be able to sleep at night. 
I would think they would be more comfortable in the run-in out of the wind. I doubt they produce significantly more energy walking up the hill and pawing at the ground than walking around in your run-in eating hay. I remember you posting a pic of it and it seems large enough that they can move around alot.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 9:21 pm:
The real temp is suppose to be ONLY 15 below, the windchill can be as low as -45 tonight thru tomorrow afternoon. I gave them some extra "mush" made with warm water. Extra "yucky" hay and a little extra decent hay...the gate is open. They will go in to at least poop on the hay. Yes I work out in that weather and I suppose if I can take it they should be able to. Does make me tired and much more hungry and thirsty.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 9:27 pm:
Diane, i've never experienced 45 below but have dealt with windchills of 20 below... I never locked my horses in their shed. I would put their hay in the shed, and trust them to care for themselves...Even if it got icy. I've always believed that they know what they are doing. My arab, who could get cold at 40 above, would be heavily blanketed and sure enough, he'd be in the shed. My little guy, a.k.a. the miniature wooly mammoth, would be in the shed if it were really windy, otherwise he'd be out in the open, a layer of snow or ice hanging off him. I've always taken the unmelted snow or ice to mean that there was no body heat escaping to heat up the snow or ice enough to melt. I've never seen him cold. while I personally wanted to lock them up in my house and turn the heat way up, they were very happy and content to stay outside. And as far as the ice my horses used to live on a hill. They would step out of their shed to a small flat area, and from there it went down. They're barefoot, and while they might slip occasionally, it was never more than a few inches and never more than 1 foot. Never even had a scrape. So I'm all for putting the hay in the shed and letting them make their own decisions.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 9:58 pm:
This just came to mind. About 12 years ago, we had wind chills that were near minus 70! Does anyone remember that winter? I am saying around 12 years ago, trying to place what horses we had, if our youngest child was born.
At the time we had a 3 sided shelter that faced south, with the back of it full of hay, and the front divided into 3 stalls that had doors which were open on top and bottom. (hmmm, more like gates I guess)
What I remember was my husband & I went out together, afraid to be out in it alone. We owned NO blankets, so we tied, with twine, an assortment of army blankets on our horses. I remember the 2 Arabian mares were shivering, but the 2 TW's were not. The TW'ers were a 19 year old mare and her colt, he must have been a yearling about then. I am not even sure if we put our makeshift blankets on those 2. They were standing in the open stalls out of the wind.
Just asked hubby what he remembered, not much, except it was dang cold!
'Nways, that should ease your mind! Yes, I am sure we kept hay in front of them constantly those couple of days, and I know we brought hot water from the house also to add to the tank. I am also thinking it was pretty poor quality hay as the whole shed roof leaked, hay was on pallets on bare ground.
Geesh, makes this minus 10 to -20 seem warm now, doesn't it?
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 10:07 pm:
Diane we lived in Minot ND where it got to be 60 below with windchill. What we learned from vets there was you either blanket from the start of the season or your don't as Lori is right the hair if long and made to lie down can't do it's job, if it's standing up warm air circulates in the hairs and they will stay warm...yes even in 60 below if they have been allowed to grow their coat. Our problem was with temps like that to make it safe for humans the barn was heated. So we had to blanket and we did with diligence.
My arab seemed to tolerate the cold very well....same as in his home land in Mt. Now we moved south and he acts freezing (like Melissa's horse) at 40 and shivers ...so we opted to blanket here as well as his turnout is at night do to limited paddocks. He has a shelter but he never goes in there unless it's raining.
And believe it or not he still had a tiny bit of a winter coat that developed regardless which was more so because of the lack of light I presume. Although don't quote me.
Either way the rule of thumb is blanket or don't, I am not the authority but have lived in what is sometimes called the coldest place in America for a couple of years. Don't blanket a horse that is coated or you will just make the feel colder. Like I said we were in the frozen tundra and folks did both and all the horses were fine. We rode all winter (which was about 9 months out of the year) us in snow suits and the horses in quarter sheets until they were warmed up.
Hope they are well and enjoying the time in turnout wherever they chose to hang out.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 10:24 pm:
No blankets for them....I don't even own one.
Angie for some reason I don't remember that winter, probably selective memory thing. I'm sure the hogs will be fine, the aging population worries me most. The old girl is getting a little more fragile in her old age. The geldings take good care of her tho and don't usually pick on her. They sure fight amongst themselves tho. They were galloping thru the pasture play fighting, rearing, bucking, and rolling...while the old mare watched. Smart girl They are staying much more active this winter, I'm not sure if it's because of their weight loss or because they don't have food in front of them all the time...whatever it is it's sure nice to have 3 healthy active horses again.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 2:38 am:
Like Corinne, we used to live in what was often the coldest spot in the continental U.S. In winter it was sometimes 40 below (not counting wind chill) with a high of zero. We did blanket starting as soon as the nights got cold and took blankets off during the day. We used those heavy New Zealand rugs at the time. For the horses that didn't have heavy coats, we made liners out of cheap army surplus wool blankets. During the day, unless it was a bitter storm, the horses had their blankets off.Usually the horses were allowed to go in and out of their stalls except for when we had bad storms. Our neighbors didn't blanket ever, and their horses had run-ins only. Their horses had coats like wooly mammoths. All the horses seem unfazed by the cold and seemed to enjoy the snow. IMO if a horse has shelter from wind and wet, has enough food, and has drinkable water, they do fine regardless of the cold. The exceptions would be the very young, the very old, and the ones that are recently moved to the area. I think heat and high humidity are worse than the cold.....or maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings!
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 4:15 am:
Though my horses have a lot of hair and shelters in abundance[and YES they all use them if the weather is foul] I blanket them on very rainy days. They all have a very light raincoat and seem to feel more comfortable like that[I conclude that because they come seeing the blankets and stay still without a halter any horse I need to catch for a blanket doesn't get one]
So I think with these modern breathing light blankets they overcame the problem with the winter fur not functioning anymore.
I did notice with the shelters that you really need enough place/shelter for the 'frightened' horses they will[over here prefer to stay out if a not so friendly horse is in there.
Jos
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 7:31 am:
Just to clarify, when I do blanket my horses, it's only if they are shivering, and/or wet. Normally they are wet when shivering, so I blanket for a half hour or so, just to get them to start warming up, and dry out. I do agree you either have blanket all the time, or not at all for the most part. I don't leave the blankets on...with the exception of those days of minus 70 below!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 8:21 am:
It is rather nippy out there. Weatherbug was chirpping again, changed the windchill advisory to warning. News said Michigan is next in line, blowing your way Angie. You may get the -70 windchill we are suppose to get to -60.
On a good note the horses decided to be domesticated last night, ate all their yucky hay and according to hoof prints didn't stray to far from the lean. No shivering, they really act as if they are starved (more than normal) in this weather and have been kind of cranky the last few days. The weather isn't doing much for my attitude either tho. So until this weather breaks I guess I will keep as much "yucky" hay in front of them that they will eat and or poop on. I'm running low on that hay so I hope spring arrives soon.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 11:04 am:
Do y'all in the South think you have room for all us Yankees?
This winter stuff--I'm getting too old for it! Now I finally understand why Florida is a big retirement community!
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 10:21 pm:
There's nothing like a Florida winter! I moved to NC from there in Dec and am missing the 80 degree temps right about now. I know I shouldn't complain about 20's and 30's with you guys having such brutal weather. I don't know how you guys do it. I will say the horses love this weather WAY more than Florida's though!
Don't worry before to long we will all be complaining about how hot it is!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 9:45 am:
quite a surprise today, it is +20 degrees this morning. Got the weight tape out and the pigs lost about 25lbs. each in that cold snap. They had free choice yucky hay, I upped their mush (safechoice, beetpulp, alfalfa pellets to 3#'s a day and increased good hay about 25% in the extreme temps. Those type of temps. must burn the calories. No one shivered and all seemed warm and happy. Back to their meager portions until the next cold snap.
We probably averaged a -20 to a -60 degree windchill last week...guess horses are pretty hardy...even my old girl.
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Member:
judyh
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 12:17 pm:
I have found this thread very comforting. I have a 21 year old quarter horse mare who is becoming more reactive as she ages. But, that's for another post. Anyway, a year ago this past fall, she got hives and what looked like rain rot soon after I started putting a turnout on her. It appeared that the turnout acted like a greenhouse and exacerbated the problem. We ended up doing some allergy testing and seemed to get the whole thing under control with a diet change.
So, this past fall I gritted my teeth and let her go naked. Other boarders told me how they felt sorry for her, but I tuned them out. I thought we were doing fine until the first cold snap in late Dec. when the bumps appeared again. We put her on Dex and they went away. However, four days after finishing the Dex, the bumps came back and then the scabby areas. I have to think that the only thing that is saving her from the teacup saucer sized hives is not blanketing her. So reading the posts about how they are fine, for the most part, in cold weather has relieved some of my stress.
Now to try and figure out what to do about the allergic reactions. By the way, does anyone know of a source for Azium or Dex in powder form?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 1:25 pm:
Hi Judy I feel better now that we have made it thru. The old mare and gelding did great with no blanket.
I thought Azium was in powder form, that's the only way I have ever gotten it from the vet.
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Member:
dsibley
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 8:53 am:
I know it sounds like a heat wave to some of you, but wind chills here in Illinois were -25 or lower last week. All my critters, and the boarders' horses as well, were outside in a long lean-to with runs. I gave all an extra couple flakes of grass hay and an extra of alfalfa to keep the heat up. I did notice that everyone drank an excessive amount (as did I when I came in, only mine DEFINITELY was not water!!!) I agree with the blanketing issue; although I do own some, they are never used.
My barn is not heated, so when they get sweated up in the arena, we use fleece coolers to dry off and keep from getting chilled. Of course I don't ride when it is that cold...not for the horses sake but for mine! Anyway, I am careful to NOT flatten the hair after they get wet, and once they are dry, we walk thru the arena so they can take a good roll in the sand to fluff up again. I think that helps them restore the insulation after a ride.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 10:59 am:
Judy, Azium is the brand name for dexamethasone packaged by Schering a large pharmaceutical company and comes as both a powder and injectible. I tend not to use this brand name because it is a good deal more expensive than generics. For more on the different forms of dexamethasone and their use see, Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Dexamethasone.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 - 6:35 am:
This is how I end up with fat horses! Yesterday it was a balmy 45 degrees out. Got rid of most of the snow and went to boot sucking mud. This morning it is 41 degrees and a BLIZZARD, wind chill WARNING is chirping. Plunging temps to -0's wind chills to -50 "very dangerous situation" they say. With another one to follow Fri. These fluctuating extreme temps worry me more than the very cold. I think lock up is called for in this....if I can get the gate out of the mud before it freezes solid to the ground. A person almost has to keep hay in front of them, for fear of colic with these extreme fluctuating temps, don't we? Melissa do you have room for 3 more horses there? and also another person? just until May.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 29, 2008 - 10:47 pm:
As a matter of fact Diane I do. Tempting isn't it! When we talked about moving from Florida my husband wanted to move up north, I told him I would move anywhere but NC was as north as I was going, so here I am at the most northern point of NC. But what your going through is exactly why that was my limit! You and your kiddies stay warm. 
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 8:48 am:
This morning before I went out and fed the horses I looked out the window. The 2 geldings were running crazy in the pasture, but no old mare. It is SOOOO cold I can't stand it. Went out to feed Flash was in the lean...boys came running in like race horses! The real temp is -8 degrees, not terrible but that wind is blowing so hard right now the wind chill is -50 I think the boys were running about to keep warm. Today I finally seen a shiver from he old girl. Last night I gave them all the hay they could eat...I thought...wasn't any left. This morning I gave them warm mush and all the hay they could want. Flash quit shivering and the boys calmed down. If the horses aren't fat after this winter I will be very surprised. What's a person to do? blankets just won't work. Fat horses are what I'll have I guess...I give up Mother nature wins again!
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 9:39 am:
Diane - you truly have a challenge. As you know I have been trying to get extra weight off my Rocky Mountain gelding. I have not taped him in a while, but I am imagining he is losing a bit. However, when it is really cold I have added some hay at night, especially. We don't get the bitter cold that you have, but when it is windy it seems cold. I can tell when I go out in the mornings and both horses are running around in their paddocks and kicking up their heels.
Good luck - I know how concerned you are about keeping their weight down.
Lilo
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 11:04 am:
I thought you'd all like this little tidbit of info I got from a friend who lives in Alaska:
"Horses are very able to deal w/the lower temps & wind is actually something they can thrive in- Did you know that they have the ability to raise, lower & turn the hairs on their bodies via muscle action? This is why when you blanket for long periods of time you atrophy those muscles & render them unable to keep themselves warm- it's like a regular 'work out' exercising the muscles - Offering them an open shelter is good so that they can make the choice- but closing them in takes the choice away, & hinders their natural ability to make those muscles work which of course has a domino effect as do all our actions."
Don't know if it's "Scientific" but mother nature does know best I'd think.
I was going to lock mine in last night with the forecast being for minus 25 wind chills and some snow. I didn't lock them, just put hay closest to the woods for a windblock, and also left a few extra flakes in the 2 open stalls. They are happy and warm this morning, out in the wind.
So am I, the regular furnace is running, the wood burner is going, and the pellet stove is on too!!!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 12:12 pm:
Interesting Angie, I thought I had read somewhere they have nerves or muscles to Fluff their hair.
The wind is blowing SOOO hard their hair is ruffling in the wind even in their shelter, I believe a bit of the insulating quality is lost then.
I think this is our coldest wind chill day yet. Doing dishes I saw Hank trying to paw the waterer to death...I know what that means...frozen auto waterer. Thankfully it was just the float froze in mid stream, icicles hanging off it!!. Hot water cured it. It is insulated. If it had been the pipes I think I would have gotten a bottle of wine and went to bed until spring. I truly give up fighting this I will battle the fat come better weather.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 12:38 pm:
Hang in there guys. We had all that cold, wind and snow ad now the last few days have been warm and sunny - up to 50 degrees today. I worry much more about the drastic and rapid changes in temps and weather then I do about cold itself.
Stay warm. I've seen bluebirds and robins already!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 1:10 pm:
Sara I think the 50 degree weather train must be going south. We are forecast for 5 more in. of snow tomorrow and I don't see anything above +20 forecast for the next week. Thanks for making me look at the forecast anyway I did have my hopes up for a few minutes..
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Member:
sureed
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 1:41 pm:
Just one wrinkle to add to this thread. We aren't dealing with anywhere near the temps you all are here in CA, but it is a colder than normal Winter. Our horses are out in pasture with three-sided sheds and normally never blanketed. My 17H+ mare came to me from VT. and has done well the last two years even though she doesn't grow much of a coat. She was pregnant through the Winter the last two years, but this year she is open and we have had a devil of a time putting weight on her. She had a mystery illness late last fall from which she recovered but she did start the Winter out weighing less than normal.She was putting the weight back on until it got cold. Even with feeding her extra (we feed ChaffHay}, she started losing weight again. Also, she hasn't been moving around as much (she is slightly ataxic from having had EPM as a foal so we like to see her exercising regularly). Plus, she has had this "I am miserable" look on her face. (Yes, I know, people think we are nuts, but we all know horses really do have facial expressions). Recently, the barn manager noticed that the mare was shivering and threw a lightweight turnout blanket on her (because that was the only one she could find that fit). The mare has been a happy camper ever since. The look of consternation is gone and she is frolicking in the field as we like to see. She is starting to put weight on. We figure she faired less well this Winter because 1) she started out a bit underweight, and 2) she wasn't pregnant. Does that all make sense?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 2:01 pm:
Makes perfect sense to me. Your horse must be a TB? The barn I use to manage had to always blanket/double blanket their TB's. Most of Those horses just don't know how to grow a winter coat. They still lost weight given free choice hay and plenty of grain and beet pulp. I really thought since Hank was 1/4 tb he would have a little bit of the slim gene. The welsh/arab gene must be dominant! he is fat and VERY hairy.
YES they make faces and mine have the unhappy/cranky/ eyes rolling in the head CRAZY faces today...but they will get over it when the wind stops blowing.
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Member:
sureed
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 2:11 pm:
Diane,
Surprisingly she is Hanoverian, but we think her immune system is slightly compromised from the EPM she had as a youngster (though she is 14 now). She doesn't seem to throw off stuff as easily as our other horses. Last year she got Erlichiosis from ticks when none of the horses out to pasture did.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 2:32 pm:
Suzanne, makes perfect sense to me; ever been pg? I could have been staying out in the field all winter with your horse and not needed a blanket!
I think older horses, horses with health problems and some horses for no reason we can see seem to need blankets, while others never do. You just have to do what seems right for each horse the best you can.
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Member:
sureed
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 2:55 pm:
LOL Sara,
YES, twice. That is how the barn manager and I came up with the theory. She has two kids also.
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 - 11:42 pm:
Hey Diane, I can relate, I think over these cold blast giving them all the free choice hay to keep their internal thermometer cooking has got to be important. We never got above -5 today. This is getting ridiculous! Dusty has a blanket on, and he is a wooly mammoth, but I know I sleep better at night knowing I went the extra mile
suz
At least it is not November and we have all of winter ahead of us. Spring must be coming soon
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Feb 11, 2008 - 12:27 am:
Glad to hear your mare seems to be doing better, Suzanne.
Yesterday was -38 with some wind blowing. One of the horses had an ice ball on her nose. I used my hand to melt it off.
The weather never seems to bother the mini, she is bundled up so warm in her long thick coat.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Feb 11, 2008 - 4:11 am:
Suzanne it makes perfect sense to me, my older mares who stayed open often gave a bit more difficulties then when'normal' in foal.
BTW don't forget all these Warmbloods have more or less TB in them and differ very much in ability to make a good coat!
I am with Sara use your instinct in what they need [when I get the pile of blankets out anybody who goes of doesn't get one]
Jos
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Feb 11, 2008 - 5:46 am:
The sad thing is I finally had their weight under control...pretty much. If this had been a "normal" winter I think I would have had horses in good weight come spring. Taking it off these easy keepers is so hard! I just can't bring myself to diet them in this weather, which never ends. We have had very few days since the beginning of Jan. that were "normal" winter days. Sam and Flash seem to be holding their own in weight. Hank appears to be gaining some. They are starting to shed pretty good, maybe when the hair is gone I will be surprised with 3 NOT fat horses.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Monday, Feb 11, 2008 - 9:41 am:
Diane - I taped Jose yesterday, and he taped over 1000 lbs. Not good - he should be about 900 lbs, I think.
It will be a challenge come spring. My mare taped a little over 1100 lbs, but she is taller and longer. I will need to do a more accurate assessment (measuring girth and length and using the formula). The mare has ribs slightly showing and easily felt - but is cresty. She has tended to crestiness all her life and the vet thinks she may have early signs of Cushings - he might do some testing this spring. That will be a new thread.
I guess we will both battling the weight this spring! Just hope Hank stays sound!
Lilo
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Feb 11, 2008 - 4:41 pm:
Lilo I have been afraid to tape the pigs...winter hair does make a difference, I just don't know how much. Too depressing. I hope Hank stays sound too, so far so good, but their has been snow on the ground all winter. They have their paths all hardend up, it is very packed like ice. He does walk a little more gingerly, but not bad on that stuff. Had to cancel the farrier appt, he couldn't get here.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 - 8:57 am:
Sorry if I overlooked an article or ask a stupid question but as proteins burn up with more heat would substituting hay for alfalfa hay during cold spells help?
Jos
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 - 3:24 pm:
Hi Jos, I don't think the type of hay makes a difference as far as keeping warm. I believe it is the digesting process that produces the "heat"
If I fed mine alfalfa they would be so fat and lame they wouldn't be able to walk.}
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Member:
judyh
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 - 8:46 pm:
Thanks, Dr. O, for responding to my question about the powdered form of Dex. I questioned my original vet about getting it and he said, certainly he could get it. So then I asked the other vet and he said Schering was no longer making the powdered form of Azium available and he was going to look for another source. So, I am mildly confused and amused and will get Dex from the vet who says he has no problem.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 6:36 pm:
This is why I have been so paranoid over this unseasonal weather that just won't give up.
I know there are places that have worse weather, but GEEES. The snow is so deep we can't move it and the horses don't move around much. The waterer float freezes, I do keep a close eye on that. The city this paper comes from is about 20 mi. west of us.
https://www.thonline.com/article.cfm?id=190575
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Member:
robinsl
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 7:52 pm:
I live in an area where winter comes hard- northern Pennsylvania. While it is legal to allow horses to live outdoors with a three sided lean to for shelter many of us choose not to take this path. Instead we keep our horses indoors in a box stall and turn out in an indoor arena daily for some exercise while their stalls are being cleaned. Not ideal but we do not have to worry about them slipping and falling on ice. I have seen both horses and cattle do that and have to be pulled up away from the area by a tractor and sling. Better indoors than injured. And it beats being a horsecicle .That is how we survive in this area where snow, ice, freezing rain, sleet, below zero temps, and at times rather high winds are the norm for this time of the year.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 8:09 pm:
OH if only I had an indoor arena, they wouldn't be turned out in it...I could ride.
Most horses in this rural area keep their horses out, that's not going to change. Matter of fact I prefer mine out with the lean-to for shelter and so do they. It's all a matter of preference and well money. I couldn't board 3 horses if I wanted to, nor could most people in this area. Heck we're still trying to scrape enough together for a machine shed .
We finally did do something right and switched our calving from late winter to fall calving. This would have been a terrible time to calf this year.
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 10:22 pm:
Hey Diane, thanks for sharing the video. That is what my Dusty came down with we are pretty sure. They did not tube him, but I am really trying to watch the water. I wonder if wetting down the hay would help at all, probably not. I will order some electrolytes though, so far he has improved, but we will be -15 again tomorrow nite. This winter is getting unbearable for man and beast!
My neighbor just had a a calf born, they were not expecting it. He said he figured the bull had gotten out, and they miscalculated. The baby died of exposure before they found it. Bummer.
I am heading to Phoenix in April, I need to fry my brains with sunshine and HOT
suz
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 5:56 am:
Susan I thought of Dusty when reading that. The hay would freeze wouldn't it? I have been watering down my horses feed with some beet pulp added. They get close to a gallon of warm water on their feed and beet pulp twice a day.
We had a surprise calf Jan 1 it died of exposure also..
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 10:00 am:
DrO,
That article brought a question to mind. We want to feed a stemmy longer chew longer digesting time hay during the winter months to help the horses keep warm. Does a more stemmy hay lead to more compaction troubles than say, alfalfa would? I am thinking alfalfa being much finer and wonder if it breaks down quicker also.
I worry about the water so much this time of year. It seems I don't have to fill the tank nearly as often as I think I should have to for 4 horses.
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Member:
robinsl
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 1:49 pm:
Northern Pennsylvania is an extremely rural area. It should be noted that the majority of stables in rural Pennsylvania and upstate New York do have indoor arenas. Many people build an arena, over time cover it leaving sides open and tarping those sides in the winter months to keep out the wind and elements.
Regarding horses that do not "drink enough" in the winter - Do they have access to salt? -Do they lick the salt? You know you can add plain table salt to their grain if they are not. This at time will encourage them to drink more water and prevent colic and dehydration.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 5:57 pm:
Angie good question I've wondered that too.
Mine have access to a salt and mineral block. I have tried adding salt to their feed, but they won't eat it. Something reverberates in my mind that salt can actually pull moisture from the gut..not sure tho.
I think it's pretty much what the article said. Horses don't like to go out and get water in adverse weather. I made a mistake when planning the lean to, my waterer is only about 20 foot from there, but when it is windy and cold the horses do not come out and drink. I can tell from the hoof prints. The last storm we had they didn't come out and use the waterer for a day and a half. I finally threw their hay by it to make them venture out and they finally drank. Should have put the waterer in the lean-to. One half of it is in the cow pasture and we thought we could save money by splitting it, which we did. Live and learn I guess
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 9:42 am:
Diane - could they get some moisture from eating snow? My guys do that often when they have fresh, clean snow available. They each have a waterer (with tank heater) available at all times, right outside their barn door, but when it is cold, they don't drink nearly as much as when it is sunny and (comparatively) warm. Of course - my weather is positively balmy compared to yours!!!
Lilo
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 4:18 pm:
Calgon take me away!!!!! sorry if young readers don't know that phrase.
This weekends storm prediction is 1/2 in of ice followed by significant rain/ snow accumulation and of course wind. so maybe we will have floods and won't have to worry about water. They can just lap it up as it flows by!
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 6:38 pm:
Oh Diane, you sure have had a rough winter season! It's almost over!
BTW, I'm young and I remember "Calgon take me away"
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 8:21 am:
I hope so Melissa, this is one of the worst winters I can remember. The ice is ridiculous. The town has run out of places to push the snow. They have been hauling it away trying to make room for more.
It seemed I had been going through quite a bit of hay lately, so I crunched the numbers and the horses are getting about 25lbs. each a day.
The funny thing is one day they almost look and feel in good weight and a day later they look fat. If I really scutinize their bcs I think they are around 6 if I can hold that and remain giving them that much hay that will be good. They are starting to shed by the handfuls I hope that is a sign spring is around the corner and soon!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 8:27 am:
Dr.O. This morning when I fed, my HAIRY arab gelding was shivering so bad he could hardly stand up. The other 2 were fine. Our temps have been swinging wildly here and last nite after 4 in of snow the temp plummeted to 16 degrees. I fed them in the lean last night because of the wet conditions. He is dry this morning so don't think he got wet. I fed them this morning in the sunshine and he seemed better.
Does this indicate I have cut their hay too much? I felt terrible. Thanks
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Mar 28, 2008 - 4:33 pm:
Told husband about Sam when he got home and he said he saw him roll in a puddle right before dark last night....sigh. I guess that ans. my question. He wasn't wet this morning, but I bet with all that hair he was wet most of the night,,,thanks
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