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  Discussion on Trim with electric grinder?
Author Message
New Member:
carlaa

Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 1:42 pm:

I would appreciate some brainstorming...I have decided to give the barefoot trim another "go". The first person left something to be desired. This second person has raised even more concerns. Person #2 does not use a paring knife or rasp. Instead, person #2 uses an electric hand held electric grinder with a coarse circular wire brush to "trim" the sole, bars, wall, and to roll, round, and smooth the edges. Because it is heavy and awkward, the rolling, rounding and smoothing doesn't happen. Instead, there are spots where too much has been taken off, the horn has been taken down to the white line, and the foot looks badly chipped. Not even close, right? Is this electric grinder method typical or this person improvising? Thank you-all humans!
Member:
kriseyc

Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 10:03 pm:

Carla,
Is this "trimmer" person an actual farrier?
IKE
Member:
paul303

Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 12:47 am:

Yikes!! The only grinding I've ever seen is on the shoes. Besides the problem of taking too much off, and poor control, there is the heat the grinder creates.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 10:28 am:

Welcome CarlajA,
I have seen this technique used successfully to shape the wall. A small grinder light enough to be held with one hand and a medium to fine grit disc is used. It all is a matter of technique and does not totally supplant the need for a knife to remove weak horn in areas the disk cannot reach.
DrO
New Member:
carlaa

Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 6:36 pm:

Thank you Lee. My thoughts exactly.

Ike, this person is advertised and poses as a barefoot trimmer and not a farrier/blacksmith. I do not know what method she uses.

Dr. Oglesby, so, ok on the hand held grinder with a medium to fine grit disc. But this person uses a very coarse wire brush on a rotating head. Probably time to recruit another trimmer, yes? Thanks Everybody!! I got it and won't feel bad...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 28, 2008 - 8:54 am:

Because we cannot examine your horse CarlajA we should not make such a first hand judgement but in your first post you state, "...there are spots where too much has been taken off, the horn has been taken down to the white line, and the foot looks badly chipped". If my farrier was doing that to my horse's feet I would be looking for a solution. Discussing your concerns with the farrier might be a best first step, even if you decide to change farriers this farrier needs to know what you think.
DrO
New Member:
carlaa

Posted on Monday, Jan 28, 2008 - 6:52 pm:

A well respected blacksmith came out today. I called her because the trimmer has been ignoring the white line problem. The blacksmith began treatment of the white line disease and it will be fine in a few months. But, the trimmer has made the soles very thin with the wire bristle grinder. Besides the uneven walls/chips, there are now bruising issues. Once I write this it becomes so clear. It is apparent that she is not as knowledgeable as I was led to believe and I need to move on. Thanks for helping me see this more clearly.
Member:
gailkin

Posted on Thursday, Jan 31, 2008 - 3:09 pm:

I am sorry to hear of your horse's bad experience with a grinder. Many people are now calling themselves barefoot trimmers with little or no training. We have a guy around here who went to a one day training session and then set up his own business using the grinder. He tried to show the woman who had conducted the training his "new idea", but all the horses ran from him and he could not catch any to show her!! A good barefoot trimmer should know all about hoof composition and be able to tell you about flaring, diseases of the hoof, nutrition, etc. Trimmers who follow Pete Ramey rarely need to rasp or carve off any of the sole at all since you want the sole to callous--just enough to balance the hoof. Sometimes the bars need to be worked on slightly. The outer walls should be rasped from the top to remove flares but only about 1/3 up from the ground max. Less is better in the beginning. A good trimmer can tell where the coffin bone is, how much sole, why the balance is uneven, etc. Keep asking other barefoot horse owners who they use. The outer edges of the hoof should be well rounded and they never chip when done this way. The horses love a good trimmer and will stand out in the open pasture without even a halter or rope. I hope you find somebody good because the results are worth it.
Gail
Member:
carlaa

Posted on Thursday, Jan 31, 2008 - 4:38 pm:

Thank you so much, Gail. I have gone from feeling neurotic, to uneducated to greater than really angry. My horses (4) all stood like statues for her. The blacksmith who came and saved the day by working on the neglected white line disease on Chloe was truly a heroine. I still feel barefoot is the way to go. But I need to use a blacksmith until I find a trimmer with an education. The first had the horses running around on their soles. They were so sore and I was supposed to walk them on the macadem for 20 minutes 2 times a day. So, my question is: where do I find the information defining the different styles/methods of barefoot trimming. Then I'll go from there. These two people were referrals. Very scary...
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Jan 31, 2008 - 6:15 pm:

CarlajA,

What a shame that you and your horses have to go through this. I feel your frustration, I lost my farrier about a year ago, and have been trying to do my own, and yup, making mistakes. Nothing serious, but it just goes to show it does take skill, proper knowledge, and a strong body to do this proper. I would not call myself a farrier and work on other folks horses, nor would I dare to touch an electric tool of any kind.

I am not convinced there are as many differences in trimming as there as similarities. But there's lots I don't know yet, so don't take my word on that! To keep you busy for awhile, (and add to your confusion maybe?) here's some links:

www.healthyhoof.com/links.htm

That will have tons of other links you can go to.

Some I've used:

www.hoofrehab.com (Pete Ramey's site)
www.thehorseshoof.com
www.wholehorsetrim.com
www.ironfreehoof.com
www.hopeforsoundness.com (Gene Ovnicek)
www.barefoottrim.com

I read about the Strasser Method first, and found it very confusing and extreme. I still think it's extreme, but only in extreme cases. I personally think a good barefoot farrier should be able to trim with a rasp, and hoof knife...of course I say that because that's all I use. My point being hooves can be maintained that way; no electric grinders needed!
Member:
erika

Posted on Thursday, Jan 31, 2008 - 8:06 pm:

Carla, where in NY are you? I am in Sussex County NJ. Can I help you with a trimmer recommendation?
Member:
erika

Posted on Thursday, Jan 31, 2008 - 8:10 pm:

Carla, where in NY are you? I am in Sussex County NJ. Can I help you with a trimmer recommendation?
Member:
carlaa

Posted on Friday, Feb 1, 2008 - 11:33 am:

Hi Erika, I'm in the Hudson Valley, on the East side of the River, 2+/- hours of NYC. I do have a list of about 40 farriers in this area, but my fantasy is one of the barefoot trims. Anyway, if you can help me find a trimmer, I would be truly appreciative. You might be too far away- but thank you so much. And now I am about to start my homework.....
Member:
carlaa

Posted on Friday, Feb 1, 2008 - 11:37 am:

OK! Angie! Too wonderful great! I'm off to do my homework! Thank you!
Member:
gailkin

Posted on Friday, Feb 1, 2008 - 3:04 pm:

In addition to the websites that Angie recommended, I also like www.barefoothorse.com as a good trimming and horse behavior site. And if you want to see a really cute very short video of happy horses being trimmed for the first time see my friend Michelle trimming two new clients at www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMZqB5qiyfU That is how horses usually react to barefoot trimming. The only problem some of her clients have nowadays is that a 22 year old horse in shoes all his life (same owner) and retired due to various vague problems is now barefoot (3 months) and so playful and raring to go that the owner is now afraid to ride him. This happens more often than you think. Good luck with your reading and studying. If you want hoof boots for the transition, one of my friends has tried them all and likes the Bares WITH CLIPS the best. You can hardly get them on without the clips. Remember, it gets easier as you learn more and our horses are very forgiving of our mistakes.
Gail
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Feb 1, 2008 - 4:07 pm:

An update here:

I am asking questions and sharing pictures of my trimming (attempts) with a lady who is a certified Strasser trimmer. She says the methods all started with Dr. Strasser and she's the one with the Science and Vet knowledge. She went on to say that there are basic guidelines that everyone one should follow, and the problem is A) people don't understand what those guidelines are and B)they also don't understand all the variables that affect how you apply those guidelines. You can't always get a clinical looking hoof, & hoof angle.

(I am trying to get this gal to join HA, I think she has a lot to offer, and being a very generous person to boot. She just out of the blue offered to help me after seeing my photos on another website)

Keep reading, keep asking questions, study pictures of barefoot trims. Preferably showing the whole horse also. I hate just seeing the hoof...how does the hoof look attached to the leg, attached the body? How is the horse standing?

Keep us update..post pictures too.
Member:
gailkin

Posted on Saturday, Feb 2, 2008 - 1:05 pm:

Angie, you need to be very careful when working with a Strasser trimmer. Many current barefoot trimmers were trained in Strasser but have abandoned that style for many reasons. It is too complex to go into in depth, but Strasser is a therapeutic INVASIVE trim done in a therapeutic setting only. She also advocates soaking hooves and limited turnout--the exact opposite of the Ramey trim style. But the most important difference is the deliberate soring of the hoof in the Strasser method. Please do some research before you use any of the Strasser methods on your own horses. Since I have been answering Carla's post and she wants to see more extensive pictures, you both should check out Linda Cowles website www.healthyhoof.com which has tons of pictures, case histories and info. She is local and I hadn't checked her site in over a year. She is a FORMER Strasser trained person who is following the Ramey style now. There is lots of info about all that on her website and she has some good new information that is easy to digest and understand for regular horse and hoof care as well as for barefoot advocates. Just remember when you trim that less is better--usually! That said there are always exceptions, but making the transition easy and as pain free as possible is the most important thing. We all keep learning.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Feb 2, 2008 - 7:49 pm:

Gail,

I appreciate your feedback, and another link to check out. I hear what you are saying, and that was my first thought too: OMG, this will be extreme...or invasive as you say. I've read about the method and saw pictures. It was the first thing I ever saw about trimming "barefoot" and it really turned me off to the whole concept, and really discouraged me from trying to trim myself. And had me wondering how was so called "barefoot" different from a "pasture trim" and why would anyone do that to horses?

I did express these ideas to the gal who's helping and she it totally in favor of making tiny adjustments, watching to see how the horse responds, and reevaluating. She feels that many people, like you and I (?), have the wrong idea about how the Strasser Method is applied and it what it involves. I don't know..haven't been on a Strasser website for some time.

Believe you me, I wouldn't be taking advice from anyhow who suggested some radical way of trimming that made my horses sore!

We haven't discussed soaking but I am thinking from one conversation I had with her, that is one of the things done when they did do something radical and it was on horse(s) that everyone had given up on. I got the impression that people took only that away from the whole concept and gave it a bad name??

I do like Pete Ramey's style, and like the idea of the whole horse/hoof healthy thing. I plan of having some gravel put in well traveled paths for example.

Thanks for sharing your concerns.
Member:
erika

Posted on Saturday, Feb 2, 2008 - 8:40 pm:

Hi Gail, sorry I can't recommend someone for you, too far apart. My trimmer is not familiar with anyone in your area.
Member:
carlaa

Posted on Sunday, Feb 3, 2008 - 6:28 pm:

Hello Angie, I've got the Ramey's website through you; do you have the Strasser website too? I want to read everything. Thank you so much for your help!

Gail, I hear you about the Strasser method being therapeutic and invasive. For me, the best way to learn is to even learn the scary stuff. I probably learned more about dressage by watching the combatant sport between horse and rider (what not to do) than the subtle finness called art, the stuff that one cannot see in the dance between horse and rider.

At first I was blown away by this trimmer- that is before she brought out the big guns...She took the shoes off my 5 yr old OTTB mare,brought the heels back to where they belong, got rid of her long toes, helped her breakover, etc. And was she happy! We turned her out that afternoon, played like a foal and saw the movement that she was bred to have and was built to have. Then the stump grinder.....Thank you too for all your help!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Monday, Feb 4, 2008 - 9:27 am:

The official Strasser site is:

www.strasserhoofcare.org Not much info on actual trimming as far as I remember.

Others:

www.hoofcareunltd.com
www.thehorsehoof.com

One that is good for pointing out the pros and cons on the method:

www.johnthevet.com/strasser.php

I just read that and I think that is an excellant article. I am still at the gathering information point myself, so if you find anything interesting, I'd love to know about it too.

Last night, I found

www.tribeequus.com/wildfeet.html

and printed off the pictures of the myth and facts. I also tried to digest the article "going nuts over flares" which I need to reread to understand. I've got a whole collection of print outs and it keeps growing!

Keep reading!

Here's to happy horses with happy hooves!!
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