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Discussion on Plains dwellers vs Cave dwellers
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 6:45 pm:
I sense that this may cause a bit of controversy, but hey, you all know me pretty well by now. Here goes:
Humans evolved over millions of years as cave dwellers. We feel secure surrounded by our modern "caves" we call houses. Dogs, and even some cats share our fondness for enclosure and shelter.
Horses, on the other hand, spent millions of years evolving on plains and steppes, open grasslands where few trees, let alone caves exist.
Now fast forward to the past few hundred years when we cave dwellers suddenly decide to keep our horses in caves, too (stables), only turning them out for a little while, sometimes only into an indoor arena!
Any wonder why they suffer psychological and health problems?
Of course, I am not talking to those of you who live in the arctic, or the tropics, where horses were not adapted to live. But virtually anywhere in America the climate is no different than the Great Plains, or the Russian Steppes, or even Mongolia. All places where horses originally evolved.
I see so many worries about whether or not horses are staying warm. I know that on the coldest of days, mine look so much happier to be standing out in the snow than in their stalls, which they have 24hour access to.
About the only time they are happy in there is in the heat of the summer when they go to get away from the bugs for a while.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 7:16 pm:
Erika, I don't think it is controversial at all. My horse is blanketed because she receives a fall clipping, but it is because I want her turned out that I try to balance her mental & physical well being with my needs (i.e not spending 2 hours walking around with a sweaty horse a 10 oclock at night). I agree that given the choice, a healthy horse would much rather spend it's time out doors than in a stall. We've all brought horses in on cold, wet, blustery days when they appear miserable standing with their butts to the wind, but at least with the crew at my barn, within an hour, they are usually restless and ready to go out again.
I am fortunate that where I board, they will allow me to "dictate" what I think is best. I'll admit that it took a few months to convince me to leave her turned out at night during the summer, with all the other horses. It was her screaming for her buddies a few times as I walked away that convinced me that there was no reason to keep her in.
I think it really just takes some common sense, a willingness to try to balance the needs with the horse and the needs of the one paying the bills  , and a willingness to observe carefully the potential impact of our decisions. And, I also recognize that keeping horses at home is not practical or realistic for everyone and that sometimes, when boarding, we don't have all the options we would like.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 8:31 pm:
It was cold where I live last night. One of my boys never gets much coat but if it is not raining or windy and he can get out of wind and move around, he will be okay. I went up and fed and shut him in a stall because I planned to take him for a ride. He was okay when I left him. Half an hour later, I went back to the barn, and being stalled up, he was shivering as his body was trying to warm up. They are best left to nature but need help sometimes due to individual needs or the limitations of their environment to provide a range or choices that will protect them.
I put a blanket on him before loading him into the trailer to take him to a trail head for a ride. He was still shivering when I loaded him, but was fine after that.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 8:36 pm:
Oh my Erika this is one subject that is very controversial. Personally I would not have it any other way than 24/7 turnout. The boarding barn I use to work at turned their horses out for about 3 hrs. on a good day. Most of these were TB's...talk about behavior problems and stall vices. IMHO horses were meant to be out and socialize.
BUT there are just so many variables these days.
Land is expensive and hard to come by. Some people have to board to own horses and must abide by the rules.
Old horses and the very young should have some kind of protection from the elements, after all horses are living longer and just like the ageing human population have special needs sometimes.
I do worry about VERY cold and VERY hot weather with my old horse it is harder on her, she is showing me this year that she is quite hardy and managing just fine for the most part. ...but I will continue to worry
Horses that lived free on the plains did die of starvation and exposure, and I don't think had a real long life expectancy.
Through better veterinary techniques, worming, feed, and over all care our equine friends are living longer, happier and healthier lives.
I guess there is no clear cut answer it's up to the individual and their circumstances. Some people would not be able to own horses if they had to come up with the property to keep them out 24/7
Heck mine have 40 acres and I can't leave them out during grass season or they would founder and die
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 9:14 am:
Hey, I'm not talking about those who have no choice due to land constraints. I'm talking about people who think their horses "appreciate" being kept in.
I have a friend with 19 acres who keeps her horses in stalls most of the time. She truly thinks they are more comfortable there, where they can't see or interact with each other, and get very little fresh air or exercise. She has lost three horses to colic in the past ten years, and I have pointed out to her that maybe they would benefit from being out more, but she likes to regulate what they eat and drink to the point of what I consider micromanagement.
People are amazed when I say I can ride a horse after a month off without problems. I think its because they stay sane when they live like horses!
Getting off the soapbox now.
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Member:
dtranch
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 9:56 am:
Once again Erika Darlin' .... you are after my heart.
DT
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 10:55 am:
In general, I agree with Erika. I prefer to let them all have their choice of going in and out, as I believe horses in the wild seek shelter during wind, storms,and heat. However, I have owned "prima-donnas" who felt it was a case of abuse if they weren't inside if the temps were over 80 or below 50 degrees, and God-forbid a DrOp of rain hit their delicate coats. I suppose this is learned behavior in spoiled horses! However, I've had a couple that were like this from birth.
I've had a lot of opportunity to observe mustangs in the wild in NV. They range from the desserts at around 4000' to the mountains going up to around 8 or 9000'. They are very good about seeking out shelter, going into ravines if there is no where else to get shelter, when there are storms or high winds. They also get behind junipers and tall sage for shelter or when it is very hot. During the summer they prefer to go to the higher, cooler elevations, and winter down lowers. Even in the middle of winter most of the horses I've seen look to be in pretty good shape, unless there has been DrOught and therefore a feed shortage. In summer they are sleek and very healthy looking, unless there is DrOught. They are extremely adept at taking good care of themselves.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 12:04 pm:
Sara, ours are even more adept they hired us!
Though I have always taken care my horses could at least four hours a day play outdoors and never have had one alone[stallion? a pony for companion] and I am talking 35 years now, and whenever possible 24/7 out with shelters boxes open whatever, I've had primadonnas too,born that way mostly sometimes bought like that.
I think you should always remember what kind of horse you have in the sense 'long way from the plains' or 'close by'. Don't forget our breeding programs have altered horses fundamentally. I do not think a mustang of 1.80m would do well for instance.
Apart from that I just look at what seems to make them most comfortable and that depends from horse to horse.
Jos
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 1:02 pm:
Well, someone has to take the "other" side if we're to have a good debate.
As Jos points out, what you fail to take into account Erika is the manipulation of the horse population by mankind. While it's true that the horses that evolved on the steppes and the feral horses that reside on the plains in North America are genetically selected by nature for success in that environment, the same does not unilaterally transfer to the highly bred equines present in the general horse population today.
Evolution is a slow process. Selective breeding can accelerate the process dramatically. Just look at Impressive synDrOme (HYPP) as an example of that.
While I do agree that turn out is a good thing, I also think that in many cases shoes and yes even pads can be good thing. I've always said that my warmblood wouldn't survive a week on his own in the wild, he's just a big hot house flower. Does this mean that he is somehow of less value even though I'm perfectly happy with him? To a large extent we've made these highly specialized horses what they are and should take that into consideration in their care.
There is no one-size-fits-all solution.
Chris
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 2:02 pm:
Dear Erika,
I agree that horses ( our beautiful companions ) need their space...but that is all I agree with
We did not evolve...and either did animals, plants, etc. We were created by a living and loving God, each with a specific purpose to fulfill. https://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/origin-of-life.html and
www.godandscience.org/apologetics/who_created_god.html
Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD'S purpose that prevails...King Solomon (Prov. 19:21)
One last link: Very Important!
https://www.growingchristians.org/dfgc/revisit.htm
Love to You,
Tonya
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Member:
mandrie
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 3:41 pm:
I must agree with Chris. Other considerations which may affect blanketing, turn-out (something less than 24/7), etc., include whether a horse is worked through-out the winter months, and the nature of the work, whether the horse works up a sweat, etc.
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Member:
jojo15
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 3:46 pm:
OY! tonya... totally unnecessary.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 4:05 pm:
I wouldn't even attempt to get on Hank if he was stall kept, especially in the spring. They don't hardly get handled let alone ridden Dec.-April.
It is expected of them to retain their manners and they do for the most part.
When he was a young un' at the trainers he was worked an hour a night and turned out for about 6 hrs., he had very poor stall manners and couldn't stand being locked in one. He managed to get in the routine,but stalls are not for mine.
Just to show the difference in thinking I told the barn owner if I was a horse I wouldn't want to be locked in my bathroom for 20 hrs. a day.
She said she thought of it as their nice cushy beDrOom. Different stroke for different folk as they say. I could write a book about my neighbor who keeps her horses in stalls most of the day...even tho she has pasture. Honestly she can't figure out why they are so hard to handle...I told her leave them outside at least all day. She is constantly sending them to trainers, they come home fine and start it all over again. (then she blames the trainer) It's just so obvious what the problem is. They went on vacation and I horse sat...they went out at dawn and in at dusk. She came home and asked what I did they were so well behaved...sigh.
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 4:09 pm:
Great discussion. Living in Hawai'i we don't have the severe weather that many of your experience. Although when it is in 55 degrees in my kitchen in the morning I am COLD.
My horses are all out 24/7. They do have a run-in shed, but rarely use it. When it rains, they seek out the closest tree for a couple of minutes and then it's back out in the rain. I have taken them in the shed, towel tried them and they walk right back out in the rain.
It's their choice. Leilani
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 4:45 pm:
Dear JoJo,
Because He Is...it was necessary.
My Best,
Tonya
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 5:19 pm:
I've seen horses that do nothing but fret when turned out; running the fence line, calling and ending up in a lather. I've also seen horses that do nothing but fret when confined in a stall. In both situations, they'd probably adjust eventually, but why risk injury unnecessarily.
My first horse, AQHA, lived to be 32. We called him Lonesome because he didn't like to be alone. Turn that horse out in a round pen by himself and he would panic, plain and simple. If I turned him out with my Warmblood, they'd just hang out but I had to hustle to get the biggest turnout pen at my facility. People often asked why I didn't send him to a retirement facility where he could be in pasture. Well, he'd been a show pony his entire life and was unhappy anywhere except a box stall (believe me I tried to save money and it wasn't worth his anxiety, especially since he tried to bully everyone in a herd situation and got his butt kicked). Up until he died, he lived in the show barn, got groomed and trimmed like a show pony and even was loaded in the trailer occasionally just to shut him up when he saw it. This particular horse was in fact happier living in a stall.
Neither situation proves anything definitive about which is "best". I've seen horses dramatically change behavior based on who is handling them and absolutely no change in turn out. There is so much variation between horses I don't think that there will ever be a controlled scientific study regarding a definitive effect of turn out.
Again, I do believe that there are benefits to turn out, and lots of it. However, living in LA county, the reality is that there are many horses that get little to no turnout and seem to be well-adjusted or at least not homicidal maniacs. It simply depends on the horse which requires taking the time to understand the needs of the individual.
Like many things in life, it's not necessary to all travel the same road.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 5:20 pm:
I am in favor of all species living as close as possible to their natural state. I was chuckling though over mankinds evolution and the cave thing. HA, why is it men still need their caves, and the remote control, and to me, it seems us women are happier out in the wide open spaces on our horses. So, thus is follows we are more evolved than men?? Right?
Sorry, off topic I know, just my goofy mind at work.
On a more serious note, I am reminded of a beautiful blood bay Arab gelding owned by a young girl. He was the ultimate pampered horse. Nothing was too expensive to make his coat shine, all kinds of silver on his tack, hooves always painted, never let out without a blanket on, etc. Normally when I saw him, his ribs were showing, not sure how the thinking was there. And his eyes steadily lost their sparkle as the years went on and I would see them again on occasion.
I first saw this horse as a yearling colt and it broke my heart to see his spirit detoriate from his humanized life style. And that is what I belive happened to him; he just wasn't allowed to be a horse any more.
Luckily, not all horses are that sensitive to our modernization of horse keeping.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 5:23 pm:
I'm with Chris too. There is definitely a happy medium here. For my horses they're on a 12/12 schedule. Every horse is different, and every situation is unique.
My pony could live out 24/7 and be completely happy and you could lock her in a stall 24/7 and she would be too, she's done both. My horse Moose loves being outside with his friends but if I leave him loose he eventually goes in the barn, he likes being inside. I think he likes his quiet place where he can relax, lay down and sleep. Plus, he doesn't have a good winter coat and he doesn't sweat in the summer to be out in severe heat. And then my new horse...she should ideally be out 24/7, she is young, full of energy and she makes me crazy banging around in her stall. If I had a set up where I could give them the choice I would, but my barn is separate from my pastures and I have no shelter in my pastures (I will eventually). But I think people do whats right for their individual horses and for their own schedules.
If we were going to abide by what they were made to do and how they were made to live... then we wouldn't have them fenced in, geld them, put saddles on them, bits in their mouths, ride them, jump them, race them, do dressage, etc, etc, etc...
And....
Tonya, you lost me on your response and I am not sure of the relevancy. We all have our own views on the evolution of man kind and religion and I do not believe this is an appropriate place to discuss it.
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 6:10 pm:
Dear Melissa,
From the Bible; Luke 19:40 Jesus stated: I say to you, if these men keep quiet, the very stones will be crying out.
So, Luke 19:40 lets us know that God will be praised, if not literally by the stones, then by ones he raises up. God uses me,( Tonya ) here and now, to proclaim, His Deity, His Power, His Majesty to all that will listen. If I didn't...the very rocks would cry out...(meaning) nothing could stop it from being proclaimed.
He is the Creator of Everything ...past...present...and future...that is the relevancy.
Sincerely,
Tonya
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 6:14 pm:
Hmmm...I agree that horses need access to shelter. My question is about "forcing" them to stay there. Those of you who say they are happy in stalls, are they? Or are they just used to it? Even so, would they prefer it if they weren't forced to get used to it in the first place ?
There are people who have spent so much time in institutions or prisons who, when freed, immediately do something to get put right back in. Does that mean they prefer prison, or are they just insecure with something they're not used to?
Is this why the lone horse paces the fence line?
BTW, I don't know the answers to these questions. That's why I'm throwing it out there for debate. I'm certainly not accusing anyone of "abuse by barn"LOL!
We do know through research that horses with adequate turn-out have fewer health problems.
I guess if one has reason to stall, fine. I wanted to. Inspire conscious thought about whether or not to stall. I think too many people stall horses because it looks more comfortable from the human perspective.
Just something to think about. I am enjoying reading your opinions and insight.
Erika
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 8:38 pm:
This is an interesting discussion. I need first to comment on the cave dweller thing. I've lived in a berm house: scorpions in the tub, no ventilation, mold everywhere. I'd rather live in my freshman dorm bathroom than in a cave. Just saying.
I'm lucky enough to have room to turn my horses way out, and also to let them live in very large paddocks with sheds when they are "in." I have a barn with stalls, which is for my convenience with some of the riding horses, and for layup/quarantine etc..
The two breeders that I know who raise their horses in feral conditions ("free range horses") produce very few competition-sound horses. I suppose it's a hobby for them, but I can't afford to lose so many babies to range-damage, so I keep them close at night.
We owe it to the horses to do the best we can manage, but I do think we over-sentimentalize them at times. Safety, movement, socialization, work, and decent feed are the main things, but most are content within a great range of these things.
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Member:
jojo15
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 8:49 pm:
i think striving to be as natural as possible is the goal. for me at least. My mare was stalled the first 15 years of her life. and now she is out 24/7 (she is 25). and she is thriving. she is also shoeless. and she is grainless. and i don't need to micromanage her. Though i did when she was stalled. The more you manage the more you have to manage. the less you do the less she needs is what i'm learning. But then i also had a TB off the track. she was as tightly wound as any horse could be. i put her on pasture for a year and she was fat and happy. and finally learned to be a horse again. She adjusted to the less is more theory. but the minute i brought her back to hands on? She reverted back to her old self. I never quite figured it out.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 9:05 pm:
Interesting discussion.. and one more point.. the investment folks have made on some of these horses.. You don't want a $50,000- $100,000 horse out where just about anything can happen to him..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 10:38 pm:
Ann,
I wasn't going to bring the investment part into it, but agree with you totally.
Regarding "as natural as possible"; let's see vaccinations are not natural, nor is feeding hay, trimming or shoeing, medications for a sick horse, leg wraps or leg protection of any kind. This is of course in addition to the very act of riding. I find it interesting that some folks do all of these things yet claim to be "natural" and do look askance at the rest of us. Seems like a slippery slope to me.
I am curious jojo, regarding the mare that you mentioned. During her year on pasture was she being worked at all? Was the change in coming off full time pasture the only change that occurred when her attitude reverted? Either way, I'm perfectly willing to accept that some horses really do need to be on pasture. My point is that there isn't a one size fits all.
Erika: I'd love to see the research you cite, can you provide the source?
Chris
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 10:42 pm:
I have to agree with JoJo, Tonya this is not the place. Let's keep it a discussion of turn out vs stalling and all the variables involved with that. If you want to start a thread along the lines you should go to the members lounge and choose a relevant topic. Then those who are here for Horse Advice don't get surprised.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Feb 15, 2008 - 11:31 pm:
Chris, I apologize for not being able to do that right now. It is a combination of being away from home and trying to negotiate the web by Blackberry with limited access; as well as the curse of being what my brother always called "a virtual walking encyclopedia of useless knowledge" without bibliography !! Haha!-I am cursed with an almost photographic memory without reference to the source of that memory.
I do believe the data is there, however (particularly in regard to colic and respiratory--help me out here, Dr.O, if you are watching this thread), and I will try to post some as soon as convenient.
But, Chris, again, my aim is not to espouse total turnout; merely to inspire debate in hopes of learning more. I certainly understand the need for individualizing decisions. Just hoping to drive home the need for thoughtful consideration.
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Member:
pbauer
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 12:47 am:
Dear Julie,
As my husband stated: So it's alright to espouse the evolutionary point of view, but not the undeniable proof of a Divine Creator? This is all part of the same discussion.
I'm sorry, but I do not agree with you.
Sincerely,
Tonya
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 3:53 am:
Hmmm Tonya you do have a point. At first I was a little bit annoyed because yes to me this reaction didn't seem to belong in the discussion. But you are right if I can state the evolutionary point of view you can state your point of view. I think we only have to agree on the fact we state our own points of view over here like we always do.
On the sheltered horse subject: Believe me I've seen them born longing for boxes although I always managed to convince them outdoors was real nice and good for them to.
I think we didn't mention one point: Normally our pastures are quite dull compared with the plains. Constricted less anusement through trees hedges [caves] we mostly do manage to give them dogs instead of wolves but still. I found that a lot of horses who like to have a schedule of coming in during the night[or day] need that less the more space friends and amusement we have. So what about box and stable provide interesting things for our confined horses too and they need it to make up for the less 'amusing' life?[read 'adrenaline rush' to which a flight animal is prone?]
Jos
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 11:06 am:
Erika, you're introduction to this discussion is with good intentions. There are MANY people out there who keep horses in stalls 95% of their lives for pure convenience. In FL the farm I was at was dry stalls only and had many paddocks for turnout. There was a girl there with 3 horses that NEVER went out, never got ridden and not for any reason but just that she didn't have time to take them out and bring them in. I offered to help out when I was there but she just felt they were fine. She was a great girl, I just think she was unaware of the need for turn out. That is why your discussion is great, some people really don't understand and get into horse ownership without the education despirately needed. (I was pretty clueless myself when I started)
Again I do believe it is on an individual basis to determine.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 11:22 am:
Looking over this discussion there is no perfect answer what is best..
I brought up the financial worry of a turned out horse... but oh my , My filly that was bred for potential and worth a lot when she hit the ground and SHE kicked the barn walls and changed her career and worth just like that..
Could she have done the same in pasture? I am sure she could have.. hit mole hole or..?
There is no right answer with our horses now adays..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
jojo15
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 11:56 am:
Chris, when i said as "natural as possible" there are some things that fall under that "not possible" category. And i try to keep that down to a minimum. i haven't picked feet in years. i've personally stopped vaccinating. and i trim when its needed. i've given her the ability to be as much of a natural horse "as possible". i don't blanket. i've never used leg wraps for travel. and even in injury i tend not over do it. Unless i need a tetanus for her, she hasn't had a shot in years. Can everyone do this? of course not. but if given the chance and have the opportunity i do think a horse thrives (or any animal) in its most natural environment. If i can "fake" it for her? to achieve that, i will try.
my other mare i had mentioned went from constant stalled, dressage training, to zero hands and out to pasture, in the beginning it was a rough transition but then she thrived. when she came back home we didn't do anything more than put her in our small setup and that was enough to know she wasn't happy here. She went back to being the flighty horse she was. So she now lives on pasture full time. and that is where she'll stay.
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 12:02 pm:
It seems that there is general consensus that we expect our horses to adjust to a variety of situations whether driven by lack of real estate or finances or just plain owner convenience.
Frankly, after working 9-10 hours in an office, I'm not inclined to catch a horse that is out in a pasture, scrape off mud or whatever to ride in the evening. Call me lazy.
If those of you who are insistent that turn out in a pasture-size area is necessary, does that mean that you would give up your horse related activities if for some reason you ended up in a situation where it wasn't possible?
Ann, you're right that anything can happen anywhere. A friend of mine put a very expensive AQHA gelding in a pasture with a baby she had to make sure the baby had company. He stepped in a hole and basically DrOve a bone through his lung, resulting in death. You pay your money and you takes your chances.
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 12:06 pm:
jojo,
We were apparently posting at the same time.
I'm interpreting your post to be that the mare wasn't put back to work, but just in a smaller space. She's lucky that you have a pasture to put her in. My point is simply that they're individuals. Clearly your mare is suited for pasture.
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 7:14 pm:
I think everyone needs to look at this like.... say children.
Everyone has there own opinions on raising them, from babies to adulthood. Some parents overprotect, some let them run wild... some parents take their kid to the doctor for the sniffles, some only for a broken bone...some give medicines for everything, some holistic, some believe in allowing their immune system to take care of everything...some parents buy there kids everything they think they may want or need, some choose only the necessities... some parents are strick disciplinarians,some leniant,some spank, some talk,some use timeout... some make their kids do sports, some don't,some parents are really involved in their kids education, some let them learn to do it on their own and on and on and on.....there is no right or wrong.
No matter what you do, the kid can still break a leg, fail school, get sick or some terrible disease, or could turn out to be criminals...NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO! We all just do our best.
The point is, parents do what they feel is right for their kids and the way they feel they should be raised. We all have our own opinions on how we think it should be done, what we would do in others situations, what we think is the best way is to raise a child. And the truth is it's their kids and their business what they choose to do, it's really not for us to judge(although we all do). The same goes for our horses.
I think this discussion is great to educate people on different options, but that's just it, there are different options not just one set way to do it. Most horses adjust to any situation as do people, dogs and cats. I've boarded in a show barn where they were in 22hrs a day, I've been at a farm where they were out 24/7 except in the summer, and I've been at a place where you could choose and now my own place. When I have the choice, it's in 12/out 12. Both of mine were fine with however we did it, never complained, got stress or upset...just happy to have a home, food and someone to love them!
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 16, 2008 - 8:19 pm:
Chris, here is a little of the citation you asked for. This one is from Dr. O's article on Overview of Colic:
"This covariant was significantly associated with several covariants related to farm size or stabling management that was associated with colic in bivariate analysis,....Our interpretations of these findings are that horses at pasture, which are generally from larger farms with lower density of horses, are at decreased risk of colic"
This from Horse and Hound article by Holly Kirkwood, about research by British Horse Society:
" Breathing problems more common than ever
Holly Kirkwood
25 January, 2006
A new study has found that as many as one in six horses suffers from Respiratory Airway Obstruction (also known as COPD or heaves).
The research, funded by the Home of Rest for Horses, also established that many equines were kept in poorly ventilated stables surrounded by fodder and bedding — a challenge to the respiratory tract of any horse.
A horse's respiratory system is adapted for its natural environment: open pasture and limitless fresh air, the report notes. It also suggests that many owners adopt better management practice only when their horse develops a respiratory problem, rather than taking action to prevent it from occuring."
I do realize that the second one is not a definite, but it is clear that a closed up, poorly circulated barn is a hazard--but none of us here on HA would ever tolerate a barn like that, would we?
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 - 12:03 am:
Erika,
Thanks for taking the time to look this up.
I can't help but notice that you omitted the first sentence of the paragraph about pasture which is "Horses that received no exercise other than that obtained in their pasture were significantly less likely to develop colic than were horses that were exercised at least once per week."
The conclusion that I would draw from the complete text is that horses at pasture that are not at work are at decreased risk of colic.
Either way, I'm sure we're both doing the best we can for our horses.
Regards,
Chris
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 - 10:59 am:
I'll add my two cents here... first, we all care for our horses in the best way we know how, so in that sense this is a great thread as others have mentioned to educate people on the various ways to keep a horse.
The horses at my place have the option to go in or out as they please. They want IN when it's windy or raining. They'll stay out if it's just a drizzle, otherwise they are in as their dirty stalls can attest.
However, I just got a mare in with a suspensory. She's from a top western barn. She's lived for almost 5 years in four walls. Not able to be a "horse" even by just touching noses through bars in the stall. This mare cannot handle (yet) going out into her run. She's most content with the back dutch door closed. It's very sad. She spins and prances and canters in her 16' run. So she will stay in for awhile until she can handle it. Her top dutch door to her run is opened during the day so she can see out and hopefully grasp that it will be ok. Due to her injury we are unable to let her "figure it out".
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 - 11:45 am:
My horse is in during the day and out during the night due to limited turnout. I choose the night turnout because he gets about 15 hours of turnout that way instead of four interrupted by riding and lessons. His coat is medium in length even blanketed and we opted not to clip because it's colder at night.
He really seems to love both turnout and his stall and his schedule. In the morning he paces the gate waiting to come in but at all other times remains happy to be out. But if the weather turns he visibly shows us he wants in and will stand at the gate and not eat his hay.
At breakfast yesterday my friend whose horse does not have a shelter at night was not going to be able to turn her horse out one night during inclement weather. They talked with the barn owners about other arrangements that could be made as her horse has made it known he will not tolerate being in his stall for 24 hours....standing close enough Demetrius could hear the conversation in his paddock. The barn owner said well bring Demetrius in (he had been out for five hours) and put Frankie in Demetrius paddock. My horse must have heard his name and bring him in....smarter than a whip he is....and started bucking and spinning and trying to jump the fence to get in.....no kidding. He then spent the night in his cozy stall content as can be.
I didn't realize how comfortable he was in his stall until Friday when I witnessed him lie down stretched out while still eating his hay. If I could read his mind he would have said this is the life Mom. Now don't get me wrong...as much as he likes his stall when his schedule calls for turnout he is standing at the door ready to go out. Perhaps he is conditioned but I see him content in both situations and being that we have to board where there is limited turnout it's nice to know he is relaxed in both the paddock and the stall with the exception of being left out in bad weather where his hair might frizz....he is the barn's primadonna! LOL....his nickname at the barn is Dandy and it's well deserved. He is essentially all white and I can go to the barn after a two week vacation and there is not a spot of manure on him.
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