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Discussion on Hay smells strongly of cat urine
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 23, 2008 - 4:19 pm:
Dr.O. I rent a barn down the road to keep my hay, have kept it there for years with no problems. They do have cats....quite a few. Most of my hay reeks of cat urine I have been trying to throw the obvious stinkin ones to the side. I am starting to run very low on hay because of this. My husband says I should feed it to them, but I refuse. I thought I've read somewhere that EPM can be linked to cat urine also. Beside I just don't think it would be healthy. I'm thinking it would make good cow hay personally. Is there harm in feeding cat pee hay...out of curiosity.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 23, 2008 - 7:24 pm:
YUK, Diane -- I would throw it out even if I had to result to using chopped forage or hay cubes. It would seem to me that cat pee could carry some illnesses, leptospirosis? But maybe Dr. O will have a different opinion.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 24, 2008 - 8:01 am:
Hay is expensive and hard to come by this time of year. I was talking to my farrier when he was here and he said he had some hay from 2 summers ago that was good 200 bales. I'm going to check it out, I guess they will need some kind of vitamin supp. since the hay is almost 2 yrs. old? Has to be better than the cat pee hay tho doesn't it.?
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 24, 2008 - 10:00 am:
Around here, anyone who has barn cats always puts out litter boxes, at least during the winter months. Maybe you could suggest that to the barn owner, or do it yourself. It's not too spendy we just use the cheapest litter we can get from Wal Mart. After stepping in cat crap in the hay on the floor ONCE, that was enough to get me to start with the litter boxes.
Male cats may be spraying the hay to mark territory, maybe you could cover what's left so it don't all get ruined?
I think when feeding old hay it's the vitamin A that will be less than normal. When I feed hay that is of lesser quality I add a well rounded supplement with their Safe Choice pellets.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 24, 2008 - 11:04 am:
I thought it was just me, lol! We have the same problem with cats, who knew? They have 2 litter boxes but still love the just opened bale! Don't seem to use the closed ones just the fluffy stuff! We now keep it in a specially built box that we can keep covered til gone, very yucky problem but we have no mice! Cindy
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 24, 2008 - 11:25 am:
Hello Diane,
EPM is not known to be transfered to horses from cat urine. For more on the role of cats in the EPM life cycle, see the article on EPM. However there are other problems that might be associated with contaminated hay including salmonella (feces) and leptospirosis (urine). I would avoid its use but cannot speak for the older hay. For more on evaluation of hay quality and determining its fitness see The Hay subtopic in the Forages for Horses article.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 8:59 am:
I don't understand how all my hay can smell of cat urine. It is stacked so I thought after I took a layer off the next layer would be ok. It isn't it reeks also??? My husband smells it too so it isn't my imagination, but as he says how is that possible?
I thought maybe their was a weed or something in the hay, but when I open it the flakes "inside" it smells ok....actually it has NO smell which I found strange. The horses have never been fond of this hay this year. They will smell each leaf before eating...normally they dig right in! Given their choices which is none...they eat it.
I got 5 bales of the 2 yr. old hay from the farrier to see if they would eat it. It is a brome/timothy mix a little sunbleached but otherwise looks and smells ok. Trying to be a good horse mom and not changing feed completely I gave them half my hay and half the farriers hay. They didn't even go near my hay. I REALLY wonder what the problem is with it. Could cat urine get between stacks?? It is stacked high and tight.
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Member:
eoeo
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 9:50 am:
Do you know the history of this hay? Did it possibly get a light sprinkle on it while in the field after it was baled? If every bale smells like cat urine I would be inclined to think that the cats obviously didn't urinate on every bale so it must be that it got slightly wet and was stacked before it was completely dry. The bottom of each bale might have had a bit of moisture on it and was put into the stack that way. Then it just sat there and though there wasn't enough moisture to make it moldy, it just incubated. Hay goes through what they call a "sweat" for a few days after it is put up. Depending on the condition of the field these bales were put up on, this could be your source of the smell. Have you tried taking a few bales out of the stack and letting them "air" out for a day?? See if that makes any difference. Whatever is causing this, it apparently isn't life threatening or they would all be dead by now, God Forbid. How much of this do you have left? Short of selling it to a cattle person and getting new hay, which is probably scarcer than hen's teeth and would cause you to probably have to sell your first born son, you might have to just go with this and not buy from that source again. Let us know what you find out. Something just came to mind. Some hay growers will use a product when they bale that helps it to dry more quickly. I wonder if that isn't the source of the smell? This is something they add when the hay goes through the baler. I have never personally had any hay that was treated this way but I know that it is used by some hay growers. Check that out if you can.Kathie
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 10:29 am:
Hi LKR I do know the history of the hay. It was put up dry and when we put it in the barn it smelled like grass hay. It was not sprayed with the drying chemical. It is not moldy or dusty. They ate it fine at first. That is what makes me think something happened to it in the barn. It is DEFINITELY cat urine smell. Hard to understand how most of it smells this way tho when it was stacked. The hay is pretty much weed free, as I was starting to suspect some kind of weed. I have gotten this hay from the same person for years with no major problems.
We have cattle and the weaners in the spring will be getting it. Hopefully they will eat it and it isn't bad for them whatever is causing the smell.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 10:37 am:
I don't care what you do ,, you cannot get cat pee smell out .. I have seen folks get new carpet and have the new stuff cleaned and the house still reeks..  Don't know if that can be the case here in your hay barn... but once you have cat pee in a car.. ugh.. worse then skunk smells
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 10:42 am:
Hi Diane,
Are you certain it's cat urine and not skunk or fox? I ask only because those smells tend to permeate everything. I have a feral cat problem (which I manage with hay tarps along the sides-- a PIA). They don't take out the whole stack.
That being said, my most practical suggestion is to start live trapping them and getting them neutered. The spraying is really the problem, I think. Our local tom (the one I know about) belongs to my neighbors across the road. I made a deal with them that I would pay for the neuter ($30) if they would take him in, and they finally got to it this week. He's already cost me at least that in uncovered hay, so it's a deal.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 1:44 pm:
Is it cat pee or is there a turf war between toms and the hay is being sprayed? Females also spray and that really gets it going! Just spent $500 getting a litter of kittens fixed to avoid this trouble because there is no easy way out once it starts except removal of cats! But with so much oder it has to be turf war! Good luck as even my piglet Ellie won't touch the stuff! Cindy
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 2:26 pm:
Sometimes hay smells a bit cat-peeish anyway. It doesn't actually mean it's gone bad or that the horses will not eat it. Are you absolutely sure it's definitely cat pee?
All the best
Imogen
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 2:51 pm:
The owners of the property have 4 cats of their own, they take very good care of them and all are neutered and vaccinated. They have told me they have been seeing some stray cats around this winter and have heard their cats fighting with them. So it could possibly be a spraying thing. I had part of the hay tarped where I suspected a small leak in the roof and that tarp stunk so bad I had to throw it out! The whole barn smells bad.
I just got a load of hay from the farrier and put it in my trailer, I guess the cows will be getting the rest of my other hay . Next year it will be tarped, but obviously they spray the tarps too.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 1, 2008 - 9:32 pm:
Diane,
Based on the winter you've had, both in weather and in problems, have you considered the possibility that the UNIVERSE may be peeing on your hay? Just a theory, but it seems plausible to me....
- Elizabeth
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 2, 2008 - 5:55 am:
LOL Actually yes I have considered that. BUT I am trying very hard to hold on to the shred of a positive attitude I had. It is very quickly eroding away tho. If only I knew what universe pee smelled like I would know whether to throw in the towel.
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Member:
trouble
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 2:27 pm:
My entire barn smells like "universe" pee right now. I just noticed this past weekend 4 new cats at my barn. There has been a feral little girl kitty whom I've noticed taking up residence at my barn lately, and she happens to be in heat. I have never seen so many cats at one time screaming at the top of their lungs and fighting over her.
Unfortunately, I can't catch her to do anything about it, so I am living with the consequences of people not keeping up with the spay/neuter program. That literally stinks!!!!
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Member:
trouble
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 2:28 pm:
Sorry, I meant the "whole universe" has been peeing on my hay, not the mother nature "universe".
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 3:24 pm:
So Lisa are you going to feed that hay? It's such a waste, but my horses hate it. I can't imagine it has all been peed on but it all smells like it has. I just had to buy 200 more bales of hay and put it in our trailers.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 8:41 pm:
Lisa, If you read my earlier note on $$$ just spent fixing kittens I so know what you are going thru! We finally got everybody captured only to find out it cost a whopping 280.00 to get A female kitten fixed! No wonder people aren't getting their animals neutered! I called vets on both sides of the Wash / Oregon border and it was the same price ?? Free kittens no longer. I finally came to terms with a vet who did it for 100 for girls 50 for boys . If this is true across the country Diane won't be the only one whose universe is going to be peed on! Cindy
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New Member:
karind10
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 9:16 pm:
Wow! That is spendy! I occasionally catch local strays and get them neutured, but we have a low cost spay/neuter clinic near where I live in Colorado. It's only $25 for females, and $20 for males. No such thing in your area?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 9:18 pm:
Wow Cindy that is expensive I'm not sure what it costs around here, I do know it is well over $100 and you are right there will be lots more cats and dogs running around in-tact. Better load up on tarps. I know some farms on my routes have literally 50 or more cats running around, I feel sorry for them as I can see they are disease ridden, but they keep on reproducing.
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 9:23 pm:
Lisa, Have you tried a humane live trap? Here in Virginia, local rescue groups will lend them out and do spays, neuters, and rabies at cost once you've captured the cat. We did this for a stray male cat who was spraying and picking fights with our barn cats. We thought that he was feral, but once he was neutered he became super friendly and is now my faithful little buddy whenever I am outside. Make that big buddy - he's first and last at the food bowl and it shows. Guess he's making up for the meals he missed before he found his home with us.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 9:24 pm:
Holy Heck! $280 to get a kitten fixed? don't they have the ACPCA spay/neuter clinics in your area? Or something similar. Like where Karin lives, we have them here and it's the same price; I think a little more for dogs. What a deal. Our local vet charges $120 for female cats; we just had one done, and I noticed he'd raised his price a little.
If they don't have the clinics, you should talk to your local vets and get something going. In some areas, the vets run get together and do a walk-in clinic; DrOp them off in the a.m. and pick them up in the afternoon and charge cheap prices just to get cats and dogs taken care of.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Mar 3, 2008 - 9:25 pm:
Ooops; that's SPCA. Sorry.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 6:32 am:
In our area every spring some of the vets run a special also where they will neuter for $25.00 I think. I've noticed our "city" vet really has gotten expensive also. She's also got a new facility, and more vets working for her so we are paying for that. I don't mind the extra expenses in some areas, but I do get really annoyed with the "PUSH PUSH TO DO THIS AND DO THAT" which adds up too much for our budget.
With the high costs others are quoting, I can see why cats get dumped off, or left at shelters. What a shame that the high costs of neutering is adding to the over population problem.
Maybe a well worded article or 2 in the local papers would get something going? Heck, the vets doing the neutering at reduced rates would still make money if not for doing the deed but for getting owners to get vaccinations and repeat customers. Sounds like a win win situation.
I remember my gramma used to DrOwn kittens. She cried doing it but couldn't afford to feed any more many times during her life. Drastic but what to do?
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Member:
trouble
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 10:18 am:
Diane, I am still feeding the hay because it is good hay, but I notice occasionally that they leave some which looks perfectly fine. My hay doesn't smell like urine, but I know the cats are on it constantly and have to assume that this is the reason why the horses are "picky". My barn, however, smells like a litter box with all the cats around. Yuck!
Jo Ann, I am working my way a little closer to her. She won't let me touch her, but she will let me work around her if I don't act like I am going to touch her. She's a beautiful cat, and I don't mind adopting her, but she needs to be spayed!!
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 11:42 am:
Once upon a time there was a spay and neuter clinic but it ceased operations a few years back! SPCA does lend a hand IF you get the animal from them,$50, and qualify for help then it is only $75. Very glad to know it is not a national problem! Have had cats forever but this time sticker shock really hurt! On the up side there is not a mouse within 500 yards of the place! Cindy
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 4, 2008 - 11:43 pm:
Our "free" cat cost over $500. by the time her spaying and treatment for URI was done. We set up a bed for her indoors until her surgery healed and the stitches were removed. After that, she has become the "house princess" and refuses to venture outdoors. She HAS caught a couple mice, but tends to bring them into the house alive, and let them go.
That's the last "free" cat I'll take.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 5, 2008 - 10:14 am:
 Lee. We have three of those "house divas" that came in from the cold and stayed. The latest is aptly called "Cleopatra Queen of the House and everything else." My husband heard her crying during a fierce snow storm and went out and coaxed her in. She was a 3 mo. old kitten. She was just "fixed" this past weekend, and she has no intention of ever going outside again!
My most expensive animals were all "free!" including our thousand plus dollar dog!
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 5, 2008 - 10:32 am:
Lee, my husband calls that "catch and release" program ! Our house cat does the same thing! It does provide early morning entertainment as one has a split second to react to the mouse before the chase is on .... husband in pjs chasing mouse before coffee can give one the giggels ! The best free critter I've ever known was a dobe that rang a friends doorbell in the middle of the night not once but 3 nights in a row til they accepted her gift of friendship! They never found where she came from but they gained an incredible friend! Cindy
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 5, 2008 - 11:28 am:
When we build our barn I brought home two kittens to be our "barn cats." One of them quickly adapted to farm life and is quite content. She sleeps in the loft, keeps the mice away, and is quite friendly and only shows interest in coming in the house on the coldest of nights. Other than that she prefers her outdoor lifestyle. Her littermate, on the other hand, quickly let us know that she was actually a house cat who had been switched at birth. After our house cat died (yes, we do have a caste system here) I let her officially change her status and she is now our current house cat, and an extremely happy little "house diva" as you say Sara. Funny creatures they are. They are definitely are their own persons, er, cats.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 1:47 am:
So glad I'm not the only sucker.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 4:42 am:
Two little 'chat de la gouttiere' [cat of the gutter?] came my way and yes they tend to catch a few mice[left if dead preferably next to my bed so I will step on it when finally waking up to hand out breakfast] if living creating a load of noise from two cats and two dogs and me trying to catch it. House diva's the ladies are...I also once bought a 'Sacre de Birmanie' [longhair in the sealpoint colour of the siamese]
known by the french as the 'Roi de la Foret' He hisses if he takes a sunbath on the road and somebody wants him to move to the side of the road, he snarls if somebody offers him a piece of their lunch and is a REAL showcat. And the best hunter I've ever had mice 3,4, 5 a day the occasional hare or rabbit even the mean little things like a small ferret you name it he caught it. So if you want a good barn cat go to a cat show!
Jos
PS I DO need to brush him...
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Member:
imogen
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 6, 2008 - 6:37 am:
Oh I love that phrase Jos! Mine are all "chats de la gouttiere" - the best type by far, as they have shown initiative by coming to investigate our farm in the first place...
My lovely half-oriental black witch's cat "Inky" caught a big rat yesterday. He's better than a terrier, but I just wish I could train him NOT to bring them inside as offerings...
Unfortunately he also likes to jump on admirer's shoulders in order to rub against their faces (that's why we call him the witch's cat) hence I have resisted any thoughts of taking him to a cat show as the judge might get an unexpected surprise!
Does anyone remember reading the lovely children's book " Gobbolino the Witch's Cat" by Ursula Moray Williams about the witch's cat who longs to be just an ordinary kitchen cat? I thoroughly recommend it, but hard to find these days.
Imogen
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 12:34 am:
Er...jos, "PS, I DO need to brush him"...is your life insurance paid up???
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 3:57 am:
Lee, because it won't be sufficient for the amenities my zoo expect I tend to RUN with brushes as soon as Puck explains he feels a need to be 'coiffed'
Jos
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 9, 2008 - 8:43 pm:
Something VERY WEIRD is going on in that hay shed. This afternoon I dragged my husband over to see if we could salvage any hay. I thought perhaps the bales that were stacked tight all around by other bales might be ok.
I'm on top of the stack throwing bales off into the "cow hay" pile when I saw a dead possum laying on a lower stack it had been completely skinned and the skeleton picked clean to the bones. My husband being the outdoor hunter type said a cat wouldn't do that it had to be either another possum, racoon, or rodent to pick it that clean. This was not an old kill either.
Then the property owner came out and said one of his cats was found dead this morning (so sad) he was a really nice cat. He said the cat had no injuries that he could see and doesn't know what happened to him. I really wonder what is going on over there? What would kill a possum and skin it then clean it bare to the bones.
Needless to say no hay came home with me after seeing the dead possum and hearing about the dead cat....VERY WEIRD all of this is.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 10:44 pm:
I talked to a guy that helped the farmer put up my horses hay the other day. He asked how my horses liked the hay, I said frankly they hated it and it smelled weird, told him about the cat pee smell.
He said the farmer put my hay up a little tough so he used preservative, I wonder if that has been the problem? I had asked the farmer if he used preservative and he said no, but I suspected differently as heavy as some of the bales were.
I've never known preservative to smell like that tho. Dr.O. do you know anything about hay preservative? are there different kinds? Just trying to get to the bottom of this....even the cows don't like this hay
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 9:18 am:
The hay preservatives I am aware of are low molecular weight organic acids, acetic and propionic acid, and often have a slightly vinegary odor. Horses usually like it once adjusted but I am sure there are exceptions.
DrO
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