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Discussion on Companion...
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2008 - 12:58 pm:
So as I attempt to make arrangements to bring my horse home, I am looking for a companion. I want to get something small and low maintenance, but am worried about my tb terrorizing it. He can be a bit of a turkey with other horses. He has been out with other horses, and was okay, but ended up kicked out of a paddock for mounting another and ripping a blanket.
I went to see a miniature donkey yesterday. I like them because they are pretty unflappable, and want something that my daughter can play with safely. They are also soo low maintenance, and he is pretty cheap. How worried should I be about introducing them? I do not have multiple paddocks.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2008 - 3:39 pm:
Hi Gwen,
No idea about donkeys, except that they are very cute.
If you can't introduce them over a fence, then I would bring the donkey (or other buddy) in your trailer when you go to collect your TB. Nothing like a trailer ride to bond equids. I'm assuming you have access to at least a 2-horse trailer that can safely contain both of them....
Given that your guy has a history of being rough, I'd make sure that I had a plan for emergency separation if necessary. What if you go out at night and find that he's pummeling his new buddy? So it might be worth getting a few horse panels so that you can pull someone out if you must.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2008 - 4:11 pm:
Hi Elizabeth,
I do have some round pen panels, and I guess I could make a stall within my run-in. That is a good idea about trailering-if the little guy fits! He is so tiny. I would like to think that if I got something tiny, Theo will think that it is a new ballgame so he needs to be nice... 
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2008 - 9:09 pm:
Gwen, they will probably get along great after the initial introductions, but be aware many horses totally "freak" out the first time they see a mini horse. Of course they quickly get over it, but the first reaction can be quite dramatic! Even my shetland will cause a reaction in big horses who've never seen a pony! I agree a trailer ride can help the bonding process. I just wouldn't lead Theo up, open the door and have him face to face with a mini donkey!
Good luck--and so it seems you've decided to bring Theo home? Keep us posted on that too. Julie
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2008 - 9:39 pm:
Thanks, Julie. I will keep you posted (in moderation).
I should restate my question to be more about donkeys. I had thought that they were pretty good at sticking up for themselves, which I guess could be a blessing and a curse. I don't want him running something off its feet, and I know that ottbs can be somewhat socially delayed. He does seem a bit slow on the uptake at times.
In terms of introducing though, I have been pretty lucky about horses getting along (knock on wood). I wonder if I should introduce them over the fence at least a little bit, to get a sense of the intensity. We have minis at the boarding barn, so Theo has seen them-and responded accordingly. I think a mini DONKEY is another thing though, you are right, Julie!
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Member:
jowidner
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Posted on Monday, Feb 25, 2008 - 11:06 pm:
Gwen, I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a low maintenance companion. Its seems every animal I have ever brought home has been anything but "low maintenance"  That being said, my horse had a very strong reaction the only time she was around a donkey: a very positive reaction! It was love at first sight! My normally obedient mare became extremely excited when she spied a donkey in a paddock at a barn where we were based for a trail ride. She practically drug me to his paddock, and then put up a huge fuss about leaving him when it was time to ride out (she normally liked to be in the lead the moment my foot was in the stirrup) Once we return from the trail, she called incessantly to him until it was time to load up and head home. All this was in spite of being with one of her good equine friends from her home barn the whole time. I still don't know what that was all about. Perhaps it was those adorable ears or maybe they were dear friends from a previous lifetime!
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Member:
kg6hdp
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 - 1:33 am:
Donkeys are less maintenance than a horse, but you still need to trim the feet, worm them, feed them, give them shots, have their teeth floated. If you feed them the same as your horse, you may end up with lots of vet bills too. They need more fiber, less protein, and fewer calories than an equivalent sized horse.
You won't know how this will work out with your horse till you try it. Sometimes the horse will never accept the donkey. Donkeys are normally much less aggressive than horses, so some donkeys are fearful of horses. And some horses are terrified of donkeys, especially when they bray.
I have heard of miniature donkeys doing serious injury to horses though. I think the donkey feels threatened by the horse behavior, which is different than donkey behavior. Donkeys have several reactions to danger--flee, freeze, and fight. Donkeys are also more territorial than horses and tend to protect their area from intruders, which is one reason they make good guard animals.
Gelding donkeys do like to play-fight. My standard donkey used to play-fight with a large mule. It was hilarious to watch, and neither of them hurt the other. They were best buddies.
I have heard of mares that went crazy over small donkeys. Do they think of them as foals?
I definitely would not let them together until I was sure they would get along.
I recently heard of someone that got a donkey as a companion for her horse. Neither the horse nor the donkey were happy with the situation. However, the family became attached to the donkey and ended up bringing home the donkey's mother too. Now the donkeys are happy, but the horse isn't.
Nancy
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 - 8:32 am:
Joanne, I was laughing out loud when reading your story.
Thanks for your input everyone!
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 - 9:03 am:
Gwen,
I have minis, ponies and a regular sized donkey whom we got at 6 months of age. Donkeys think a bit differently from horses. They will kick out at anything they percieve to be an intruder in their 'space'. They define 'space', you do not. My dogs and cats have had to learn this lesson the hard way. It has cost a few teeth, but, lesson learned. Another thing about donkeys.... they bond to one primary person, and if they "loose" that person, the prognosis for the donkey is not good. They most likely will have great difficulty bonding/respecting another person.
As to trailering minis.... get a wood board panel from lumber store or Home Depot etc, and attach that to the divider to create a box stall. I would follow the advice above, in that you cannot force a friendship where there is none. I have seen horses trailer and stall better with goats than donkeys. My mini mares DO NOT get along with our donkey AT ALL. Our pony does not get along with our mini mares AT ALL. I used to have a llama for Bubba (donkey)... Bubba wound up sporting llama spit on his face most of the time. Go figure.... but while figuring, you might want to look into goats. I am trying to figure out how my donkey could be interpreted as low maintenance... he needs turnout to play, companion to play with, vaccines, spring clipping (always a treat to witness)...sometimes we ace the donkey, sometimes we ace me... reglar hoof trimming, (farrier will NOT work on him when Walt is not here)the same worming and vaccinating and for added fun, my barn girl will lead any other critter from barn to turnout, but, of course, her common sense kicks in and she will NOT lead Bubba, who only respects the nose chain. Primary Principle: respect the donkey kick. It is his favorite means of communication. Know what triggers it, respect it and you will be just fine. Still see the donkey as the solution??? Had a philosophy professor once who taught us the solution to every problem is a new set of problems. I offer my donkey as evidence of this truism.
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Member:
karent
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 - 11:10 am:
I have 4 horses and just got goats to help eat the weeds. All my horses have bonded with the 2 goats and vice versa. I love watching them play together. My next door neighbor got a couple mini donkeys for her horse as companions. These donkeys chewed her horses tail off (she ended up getting a goat and both horse and neighbor were much happier).
I'm sure there's an exception to every rule and this mini donkey may turn out to be the best companion for your horse. Just remember the donkey is going to be more time consuming, more expensive to keep and if you have dogs that you take to the barn with you, be wary of the donkey as the donkey could injure your dogs.
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Member:
cpacer
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 - 1:58 pm:
I know of a mini in South Carolina up for adoption (he's actually a couple inches bigger than a mini which is why he ended up at a rescue). He can hold his own with the big horses
in case you're interested...
https://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=8517072
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 26, 2008 - 4:00 pm:
CP, I would LOVE to grab him. Sounds like he would be a nice match for Theo. My mom just saw his picture and said that she would pay the adoption fee if I pay for the shipping. Anyone know a shipper who will bring him to MA??????
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Member:
kg6hdp
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 - 12:38 am:
Gwen,
Bob is cute, but the ad says he is not suitable for children.
Nancy
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 - 7:59 am:
I know, Nancy. In my zeal, I missed that the first time (minor detail).
I am currently corresponding with a woman who is looking to place a pony in his 20s. He is retiring from work due to some arthritis. Sounds perfect, but is my guy going to terrorize him???? He wasn't tearing around with the old men at the barn, he just mounted one and tore his blanket. He only mounted him twice, and did it after watching another horse do it. Oh God, what if he mounts the little pony???? A horse did that to my pony when I was a kid, and she was okay, but this guy is older. I could probably overthink this like I do everything else. I just have to try it I guess...
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 - 9:49 am:
At the risk of sounding like a meanie, why not get Theo home and settled before adding the burden of finding a companion for him? Yes horses are social, but it isn't likely to kill him to be on his own for a little bit, and it will simplify your job establishing yourself as his primary life form/leader if he isn't distracted with remedial herd interactions 101.
Those companion animals tend to come along when the time is right. And there is no such thing as a low maintenance mammal.
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Member:
luckett
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 - 11:21 am:
Gwen,
I had a small pony as a baby sitter for a show mare. They had access to stalls with dutch doors. For the pony I opened the bottom and closed the top door. This pony would sneak up on the mare when she was having a nap and dance on her belly. then run to her stall and have a good laugh as the mare stood outside demanding that the pony come out to be punished.Having a place where the smaller animal can get away really helps to avoid bullying.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 27, 2008 - 5:04 pm:
That is funny, Mary. I actually had a pony that fit into a door previously made for a goat. Obviously, the horse didn't fit. It would be so funny to see my big horse standing outside of his door, waiting for his friend to come out. I know the pony thought it was so great to see the big lug with security issues, standing there so pathetically, just waiting for him. Ponies are so fresh like that.
Elizabeth, would you believe I found someone willing to provide a nice older pony to me-only to have my husband have second thoughts about bringing them home?????????????? ugh I went to follow up with the BM, seeing if there was ANY way I could adjust his turnout. She said I could try him with their two draft mares. So I put him out there for ten minutes, and watched them strike out and double barrel him. Of course, him being the ottb with lacking social skills, he just STANDS there.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 28, 2008 - 10:09 am:
Hi Gwen,
OTTBs often don't get much/any socialization, but that doesn't mean they can never learn. There's a bit of an art to socializing an adult horse, however, to reduce the chance of injury. You were there, so you know whether those mares were firing blanks or really trying to hurt him. I always introduce horses over a fence for a day or two before putting them together (and first meetings happen in a LARGE space). Most of them sort out pecking order over the fence.
If you do not socialize Theo, any companion is likely to turn into his personal chew toy, unless that companion lives across a fence and has the option to leave. If you want to keep him in a herd setting, then you need to allow him to learn herd dynamics. There will be an elevated risk of injury to him and to the other horses during that process. He needs to be with dominant horses, because he won't learn anything by bullying.
FWIW, socialized horses are easier to train. How can you use herd dynamics training a horse that is clueless in a herd? But the decision would require accepting that he will get thumped and possibly injured if/when you expose him to a dominant companion.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 28, 2008 - 11:49 am:
Yes, Elizabeth! I just had this conversation with a friend yesterday, after his interesting encounter. The scary part of the mares' behavior was a)that they are drafts-big girls and b)that they made contact with almost each attempt-partly because he didn't budge when they did it. The paddock they were in is huge, but they all huddled together for their meeting. There is no way to introduce them over a fence. The BOs are basically saying,"knock yourself out, feel free to try whatever, but we aren't going out of our way". The mares' only fencing is wire, with no turnout space around them.
I completely agree that socializing, especially being dominated will help with his training-a ton. He was out with the two old guys for a few months, and they worked it out nicely. Although for the most part, they let him do as he pleased. One would give an ugly face to challenge, but Theo would sort of ignore it and continue on with his mission.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 28, 2008 - 6:37 pm:
This thread has made me think about one of my herd treasures-- a crippled, mostly blind, crabby gem named Flash.
When my stallion was a wee randy lad of ten months (and 15.1 hands), I decided he needed a gelding for a friend/babysitter. I looked and looked. I wanted something tolerant, and dominant, and too crippled to injure my valuable horse. Eventually someone gave me Flash-- a used-hard paint gelding with big people issues, bad legs, and a magical ability to raise babies. When Flash was pastured next to cattle, they would leave their new calves by the fence for him to watch.
Flash has been with me for 5 years. He raised my stallion, weaned 3 foals, socialized new yearlings, and has turned into an ornery pet. He's 23 this year, and I hate to think what I would do without him. This morning I saw him playing tag with last year's colt.
You need a Flash for Theo. Experienced, dominant, kind and a bit gimpy.
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Member:
gwen
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Posted on Friday, Feb 29, 2008 - 6:31 am:
Aw, Flash sounds like a good boy to have around. My quarter horse would give him a run for his money-if only he didn't have hind shoes on. His favorite trick is the "double barreler" too. What a weird dilemma this is.
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