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Discussion on Quiessence
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, May 8, 2005 - 9:33 am:
Hi Dr. O and All,
Someone suggested I feed my horse Quiessence... Have you heard of it? Could it hurt to try it? I've had one vet say he's too fat, and another say he's fine...
Quiessence is a high Magnesium feed supplement in a safe, absorbable, palatable pelleted form. As well as providing much needed Magnesium for the body, this supplement also provides Chromium and B vitamins. Quiessence is legal, safe, and natural with no side effects. Calms and relaxes nervous, tense, muscle-tight or back-sore horses. Provides protective benefit for cresty, insulin-resistant, founder-prone horses, increases peripheral circulation and helps with recovery from founder. Quiessence provides 5g of elemental and chelated Magnesium Oxide per 1 ounce (28g) serving in a base of distillers grains.
Contents of Quiessence by weight per Oz(28g):
Elemental Magnesium 5g
Niacin 1.2 mg
Biotin .0168 mg
Thiamin .016mg
Choline 46. 25 mg
Riboflavin 0.042 mg
Pantothenic acid 0.23 mg
Folate 0.0056 mg
B6 0.02 mg
Sodium Chloride 2.8g
Chromium Piccolinate 1.25mg
Dosage Levels is 2-4 oz/day in feed or as needed.
The following is the supplement he currently gets and I've added selenium to his diet as well.
ReitSport HA-100 Nutrient Product
Analysis Provided per four-ounce serving
(Reduced Serving Rate)*** Provided per six-ounce serving
Suggested*
Serving Rate
Crude Protein (Min) 16.00% 18.2 g 27.3 g
Crude Fat--Natural Flax Oil (Min) 22.00% 22.5 g 37.5 g
Crude Fiber (Max) 20% 22.7 g 34.05
Alpha Linolenic Acid--Omega-3 (Min) 12.35% 12.6 g 21.0 g
Crude Fiber 20.00% 23.2 g 38.5 g
Biotin (Min) 80 mg/lb 20 mg** 30 mg**
Methionine (Min) 3.81% 4,300 mg 6,500 mg
Hyaluronic Acid (HA) 267 mg/lb 67 mg 100 mg
Glucosamine HCL (Min) 26,670 mg/lb 6,667 mg 10,000 mg
MSM (OptiMSM Made in USA) 26.7 g/lb 6.67 grams (6,670 mg) 10 grams (10,000 mg)
ChonDrOitin Sulfate 5,340 mg/lb. 1,320 mg 2,000 mg
Probiotics Complete Package Complete Package Complete Package
Vitamin C (Min) 12,000 mg/lb 3,000 mg 4,500 mg
Vitamin E (Min) 800 IU/lb 200 IU 300 IU
Calcium to Phosphorus Ratio 1.4:1 1.4:1 1.4:1
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, May 8, 2005 - 10:29 am:
Nevermind...I should have known to do a search first! Sorry!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 6:37 pm:
Hello All,
I spoke with my vet about feeding Quiessence, and he said it couldn't hurt to try it...since we just don't know what was wrong with my horse...so I did. He's been on it for 5 feedings now.
Last night he was scheduled for a massage, he needs them regularly since he gets so very tight in his shoulders, back and hind. The therapist said that he was very loose in his back...still a bit tight on the right shoulder and right hind, but that we could wait a bit for the next appointment.
This horse hasn't been loose in his back for months! It could very well be that we have finally rehabbed him enough, but I thought I would throw this out there....especially since I tested him today....he's completely sound with barely a hesitation at all three gaits on the circle....even tight circles. Four days ago he was definately hesitating and didn't want to offer anything; whereas today he was more than willing and offered the trot and canter.
It's been since January that he's been off, at times lameness at 2-3 out of 5.
Dr. O, do you feel based on this that I still need to follow the tendon rehab protocol? Remember, I was doing this based on the fact that we have no facts as to why he was lame.
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Member:
Vrich
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Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:34 pm:
I have to say that I have one horse in my barn on Quiessence. We started it because he was horrid when approached from outside his stall - ears pinned, trying to bite. He had a history of abuse and starvation, so had obvious food issues. That's why we started Quiessence supplementation - at the recommendation of our massage therapist and after consultation online with its creator. Honestly, it has made a big improvement in his behavior. I might think it was coincidental, except that, at one point, we ran out of it and it took awhile to get a new supply. He was horrid! Right back to square one. I don't understand its actions biochemically, but in this particular case, it works. We wouldn't be without it.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 10:27 am:
Only hurt your pocket book perhaps Aileen. If the tendons were damaged I would recommend you follow the schedule, a short period of soundness does not mean the tendons are healed, just improved.
Val, using the numbers in the first post, none of the ingredients in the Quiessence have been shown to have any such remarkable reaction on behavior in a diet that was sufficient in them. It would be expected that if the diet were deficient in any of the nutrients, both behavorial and other medical issues would result that would be addressed by supplementation. Such a specific reaction has not been reported in the veterinary literature however and I have not observed such.
DrO
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 11:17 am:
Will do Dr. O, I definately don't want to backtrack on any progress...Remember, this is the horse that was diagnosed with ringbone that was later discounted by other vets...I was just following the tendon rehab just in case it was actually a tendon injury.
Thanks again Dr. O!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 11:23 am:
Hi Val,
I'm just curious, did you have this horse tested for deficiencies or did you just give a try?
My vet did not test my horse, but I just tried it. If it helps to loosen him up and lose some weight -- so I can feed him a normal amount of hay -- I'm going to keep him on it. I'll give him 30 days to see if affects him.
Yes, I know Dr. O  But $30 a month is much less expensive than $200 a month for massage therapy ;)
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 4:28 pm:
Massage is not difficult to learn Aileen and good for the massuese (sp?) too!
DrO
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 5:16 pm:
Aileen, just hop on bareback after grooming and walk him for 15 minutes on a loose rein. No massage can beat this loosening up and it is refreshing for you too.
I wouldn't replace this with massage even if the masseuse was paying me 200$ a month.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 7:49 pm:
I understand Dr. O, but my hands hurt enough with the work I do around here. I try, but it's just not enough...he pushes into it and I just can't respond, it doesn't seem to matter if I use my body to apply pressure behind my hands. So I was looking for a little help.
Christos, in time, I will do that...but not now. While he is a good boy, he can certainly move quickly and I just don't trust my seat enough to stay on bareback No one's ridden him since December and I haven't ridden him since the end of November. Yup...chicken
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 6:19 am:
Now is the time, Aileen.
It is a very valuable moment when a horse returns to work from being unridden for a few months. It is a fine chance to reestablish a lot of things.
I like to start them with a 15-20 min hand walk a day for a week or two. That's to put them in the walking-with-you mode. It is important that he learns to walk with you at his shoulder, not just following you in a blunt fashion.
During these walking sessions you stop from time to time to do something the horse is really good at, like standing still for a good withers scratch. This tells him that you stopping means something pleasant, ie him stopping and getting a scratch.
Then you introduce a bit. You ask him to stop with the bit before you hold your step. This tells him that the bit is the cue to a scratch, wich horses find very agreeable.
Scratching the withers all the time is, of course, silly. You need to scratch the whole back and the sides too from time to time. This means that you'll have to reach over his back to scratch the off side. Yes, you can go all the way around him to do that, but he doesn't need to know.
So you'll be hopping on him a bit to scratch the off side. Once he agrees to that, you can spend more and more time just lying on him. If he walks, stay lying on his back for a couple of steps, then just touch him very lightly with the bit to stop for a scratch.
When you're both very comfortable with this hopping aboard, it is time to bring your right leg over and rub his right side with it. You may think he'll take off, but he won't.
Once you're comfortable with just sitting there, let him walk. Don't ask him to, just let him take a few steps. Once he moves, scratch him and pet him. Don't apply the reins in fear of trotting and don't stop him!
When he takes 5 steps, get off and pet him. Walk 5 minutes in hand, then hop aboard again and let him walk 5 more steps.
Once you're both comfortable with a few steps, you can teach him that gentle touching with your legs means walk off to be scratched and petted. From that point on all should be fairly easy...
Bottom line is all horses would be happy to just walk on a loose rein with a friend aboard. They don't buck, they don't run away and they don't make a face. Unless, of course, we start complicating things.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 9:37 am:
Wonderful post, Christos! He's actually very well behaved, but spooky...not a bolter, but a jump to the side and piaffe kind of spook. He really feels as if he's ready to have a blow out.
I don't help things either...if I tense up BOOM he tenses up...I really have to concentrate to relax...how's that for an oxymoron ;)
There is definately something missing in our partnership but no one can seem to find his hole in training....so maybe it is just that he knows me so well and picks up on the slightest hesitation and tensing of my muscles....ormaybe there is a hole in there. Regardless I will do as you say once this dang wind stops.
Thanks again Christos.
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Member:
Fpony
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 10:33 am:
Aileen,
I have fed Quiessence to my Arab for the magnesium it provides. This was to help with his muscles. i9 have since had my hay analylzed and now feed minerals to bal my hay's deficiences. what a difference this has made in his muscle tone and attitude.He is an easy keeper and always about 7-8 on the condition scale. Since the new bal of his diet he is now a 5 on the condition scale! I'm feeding more hay than in previuos years. I'm going to get my grass in the pasture tested so i can continue to bal the minerals. I think some horses are more sensative to imbalances than others. My horse had a huge crest and other fat deposits which are gone,too. Previously, he would loose weight but not the fat deposits.
I ride bareback and it has done wonders for my seat and my horse seems to prefer it. It was a bit shakey at first and i needed to remember to grab mane so i wouldn't catch his mouth. M<ty bal is much better and there is no longere a need for that. I've even had lessons bareback. My instructor would forget that I wasn't in the saddle as she would tell me to post closer to the front of the saddle. Bareback is also good therapy for your own back, If you relax and let your hips completely follow your horses motion.
Just my two cents worth! Kim
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:08 am:
Ok, then, about relaxation:
When you are both comfortable with you jumping aboard, try some variations. Sit on him sideways, sit backwards and scratch his rump, jump on him on your belly and slide (fall) on the other side, dismount bringing your leg over his neck, any silly thing you can possibly imagine.
What you want him thinking when he sees you is: "here comes silly Aileen". This is very important. Whatever you do with him, he must feel it is yet another one of your silly things, rather easy and definitely nothing to worry about.
This can easily reach a stage where he'll be grazing in the pasture and you can practice vaulting on him without him ever interrupting his lunch or taking a single step, even when you smash on his side.
And, of course, you can go on doing silly things in walk, trot and later, canter. It's not at all difficult once you overcome the psychological barrier.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:44 am:
Kim, I can probably do 10 strides posting bareback then I'm wore out...now I'll be lucky if can do two! Hopefully I'll get to where you are soon. Thanks for your thoughts on the Quiessence...I hope it works for my guy. I'd love for it to affect his attitude too, may help with the ulcer situation, and maybe he won't be too concerned with me if I have a bad day
I'm hesitant to ride him bareback without him able to blow off some steam, if you catch my drift, but now it sounds so easy If I can get him to think of me as silly (probably won't be such a difficult task to do that) and I can get him to be easy breezy with nothing phasing him, I would be the happiest girl in the world.
He equates a bit with work, so I'll probably just keep to a halter for now. There's only one thing...He's almost 16 hands and ROUND...I'm not sure I can jump on him unless he's in a big ditch or I use the mounting block. Granted, with me trying to jump on him enough, I may surprise myself and actually get up...who knows.
Thanks again for all the great input!!
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Member:
Fpony
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 2:09 pm:
Aileen!  I don't post-I can but it's not neccessary-I'm sure I wouldn't last a whole lesson! It's tiring enough on your stomach muscles without posting,too!My instructor just wanted me to be closer to his wither as his hind was coming under him and I thought it funny that the bareback thing surely didn't faze her.
My guy is much less jumpy and nervous now that his diet is corrected. I think you are on the right track for that. I know we use to feed off each other as i would anticipate his nervousness. Then i realized I was just telling him that the plastic bag is something to be afraid of or the wind in the trees does mean there is a tiger there. So instead i take the attitude that he is a silly boy as wind has never killed anyone and neither has a plastic bag instead of thinking about how he might react and thus being tense anticipating his reaction.
Kim
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 5:27 pm:
He, he, he ...
Try "posting" without actually lifting yourself from the horse's back. That's rotating your pelvis forward when you'd post, letting it spring back to neutral when you'd sit, so to say.
You don't need your legs or knees for this. You don't need your stomach or back muscles either after you get the idea, the horse provides all the movement.
The horse's inside hind pushing off should cause your pelvis to rotate forward and your weight to come off your seatbones. Not your seatbones off the horse, just your weight off the seatbones.
The outside hind pushing off should find your weight off your seatbones.
This is, I believe, the correct way to post to the trot. Posting high with your legs disturbs the horse's balance, shakes the bit in his mouth and lifts you way out of the saddle, a very insecure position.
But at the same time, I also believe this is the correct way to sit to the trot. You don't sit with full weight on every step, it is unfriendly to the horse and even more unfriendly to your spine.
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Member:
Fpony
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Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 7:40 pm:
Christos,
I've never seen myself riding bareback, but a friend mentioned how effertless my posting looked! Embarrassed, i said i wasn't posting, but thought i must look like I'm doing something. something rediculous no doubt!)I feel quite comfortable and can easily stay on, if my horse spins and scoots. It never feels as if I'm bouncing either. Your postural muscles will fatigue as you get use to it as you certainly aren't sitting there without any muscle control.
I think we all know there are no 'legs" to push off when you don't have a saddle, but you can lift yourself up using your inner thigh muscles just above you knees. I haven't tried it in a long while so I'm not sure if it interfers with your hands but the effort might.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 12:45 pm:
Christos, I've been told not to post so high, but I've never been told not to lift myself off the seat, just curious though, could you elaborate on your comment of: this is also how you should sit the trot...if this is the case, what is the difference between sitting the trot and posting it? Or did I read it incorrectly?
Kim, if someone told me my riding looked effortless, I would be ecstatic! I hope I can achieve that soon...but I have to be able to practice riding first
Thanks!
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 2:56 am:
Yeah, right, Christos..."hop on", "jump on", VAULT?? My most polished jump has never amounted to more than 7 1/2 inches.
All my life I have dreamed of gracefully "vaulting" on to my horse. In my mind, I SEE myself springing gracefully upon that bare back. It's not that I haven't tried with every horse I ever owned....especially with my niece's 14.1 hand pony. And NONE of those horses ever had the grace to act up so I wouldn't have looked so pathetic. NO...they stood stoically, patiently, as I hurled myself into their sides and slid awkwardly underneath them - until every last muscle I possess was wrenched or pulled. Bareback? I can ride all day bareback, as long as there's a wall, or a tree, or a leg-up.
I think it was Chris awhile back, who gave us a "tip", as far as massage. Take all those stupid massagers people have given you over the years as gifts, and take them out to the barn. My horses loved them!
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 4:58 am:
You read correctly, Aileen.
As preposterous as it may sound, I believe there should be only one way of riding the trot, and that is posting but without lifting your seatbones off the saddle, which is, eventually, sitting.
You only let the thrust from the inside hind rock your pelvis forward and lift your weight off your seatbones.
Posting off the saddle should only be employed in one's first lesson on a horse, just to understand the two beats of the trot and the diagonals. Then, again, in the first canter lesson, to understand the three beats and the leads.
After the very first lesson, I believe the rider should be instructed in how to keep his seat in the saddle at all times. Even in jumping, it is the horse that lifts you. You never unseat yourself!
I believe that lifting your seatbones from the saddle is the gravest mistake of all. It makes your aids ineffective and your balance dangerous and annoying to the horse.
The horse does want you to lift your weight off his back now and then, but he does not want you losing contact with his back altogether and starting dancing around.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 5:30 am:
It is not jumping ability, Lee, I can't jump high either. I think it is just mastering the movement.
About a year ago I managed to persuade a girl that was riding with me to try vaulting on a 16hh mare. Now this girl is around 23yo and close to 17hh, but weak and rather clumsy. Thin, but not athletic. She did, however, manage to get on the horse, I think within 20 minutes or so. Not belly first, mind you, but properly swinging the leg over the horse's back.
So I do not believe it is a matter of athletic ability.
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:42 am:
Too funny Lee I figure I may as well give it a shot, if nothing else, it will start the silly cycle going As far as massaging...even with the massagers...I have two. He just doesn't like them, will always walk away. But will stand stock still for his massage therapist
Thanks Christos, I can't wait to try this way of posting! I'll post back after I try it, hopefully in a few weeks.
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Member:
Skeller
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 6:46 pm:
You guys are cracking me up as I'm in the same boat. I'd love to gracefully vault onto my mare's back. However it's hard for me to manage a graceful dismount from the saddle!
Maybe one day!
Sandi
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:22 pm:
Sandi, dismounting is supposed to be the easy part! it's the getting up that's hard. Christos obviously hasn't reached "that age" that many of use have! Back when I was a lot younger I could just swing up "indian style" but no more. I feel I do good to get up into the saddle; bareback I use a chair or bucket and make sure I never fall off!
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 12:46 am:
I remember the years of swinging up on my almost 16 hh appy as a small girl.. or running and doing the jump over his butt, placing my hands on his haunches to lift me over.. like the 'horse' in gymnastics... NOW.. I can barely inch my way up my grand kids pony on my stomach...
memories are fun tho...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS..
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 2:28 am:
"properly swinging the leg over the horse's back", yes, Christos, that's what I was DOING....except when I attempt the maneuver, it becomes a "proper knee to the horse's groin". Heck, Christos, I was even asked to leave the "jazzersize" class at the gym!
However, Aileen, I do agree with Christos about the trot. What I used to tell my students when we had mastered the posting trot and were ready to refine the movement, was( after requesting DrOpped stirrups ),"roll in on your thighs, and catch yourself with your knees". After mastering that, without stirrups, they were to pick up their stirrups and continue posting in that manner. This served to stop them from coming off their feet when posting, and to balance their weight in their seat. This was usually their first experience with a deep balanced seat without depending on their feet or knees. From here they could begin to learn to ride.
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Member:
Skeller
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 8:15 am:
Lee, that's a great description. It's to hear both you and Christos describe it as eventually a light bulb goes off (another side effect of "that age"). I think it's time to do some work without stirrups as it's been a while. Then maybe bareback.
Sara, I wouldn't even begin to describe my mounting. However I've decided to avoid stressing my mare's back so I'm using a stool (however we all know the real reason!). - Sandi
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 10:20 am:
LOL, It's so good to know I'm not alone in not being able to vault onto my horses' bare back
Last night I started jumping at his side as if to mount, he turned and looked at me like I was crazy...The first time I tried it he pinned his ears and his head went straight up to the sky...but we're making progress
Lee, that is another great description on how to post...Thank you!
Wouldn't you know it, he's proven me wrong...He kept asking for his bum to be scratched last night, so I brought out one of the massagers. He did not leave and asked for more and more...You know, I think this Quiessence is really working well on his muscles. He used to be so very tight and didn't even want to be groomed for the last 6 to 8 months, always had to tie him. We shall see...
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 1, 2005 - 10:53 am:
Hi All, You have no idea how wonderful it is to hear there are other "not so athletic" AKA as -- well you know. I wasn't able to ride Sierra the last two years, and then it was a task to get on and when I got off I felt like I was born in that shape!! Ugh. I will say that Quiessence helped her a lot when she'd have separation anxiety when her stable mate left for any reason.
She was much calmer all around. She was 1/2 Arab/quarter and many times the Arab came out!!
Best to all, and Christos you are the best, funniest, smartest - next to Dr. O of course.
Shirl
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 8:06 am:
Lee and Sara, you're not meant to tell us kids that the future will not be so bright...
Thanks for the compliments, Shirley, but I'm really no better than anybody else in this board.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 9:31 am:
You have me blushing and I agree, Christos adds tremendously to these boards however his point about everyone's contributions being important is so true. I find coming and contributing while learning a daily ritual that soemtimes gives me goosebumps sometimes, but maybe I just keep the air conditioning set too low.
DrO
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 1:01 pm:
Oh, I have so enjoyed reading the posts to this discussion!
When I began riding at the age of nine, my dad wouldn't even consider buying a saddle until we could stay on bareback..I so remember just packing a lunch and hopping on my horse bareback and riding for hours on a lazy weekend..Did that for years..
Fast forward 30 years, a year of skydiving in the military, two kids and 25 years of surgical nursing.. there is no way I can leap, vault, spring or levitate onto the back of a horse. I even have a stirrup extender packed into my saddle bag on trail rides!!
My daughter is looking forward to hopping on Justin bareback when we can progress to walking under saddle in his rehab. Her nickname is "velcro butt" for the way she can stay on a spooking horse.. I'm afraid I just do not have the balance and confidence anymore to ride without a saddle, nor do I have the confidence in my horse to not pull something spooky with me on him! (Also the idea of sitting on my horses bony backbone pains me even as I sit in my comfy computer chair...)
I sure am glad for all the great memories of riding when I was a kid..Oh my goodness, the stuff we use to do!!
Aileen, where are you in the rehab program? We are up to 35 minutes a day walking and have a checkup on the 21st of June to see if healing has progressed enough to consider walking under saddle!
I may not ride as much as I would like, but I sure enjoy the learning that all of you put forth.
Smiles to All,
Debra
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 2, 2005 - 1:50 pm:
Hi Debra,
According to Dr O's schedule, I think I'm supposed to be under saddle now at the walk...but as I said above, I'm chicken I've been doing the handwalking since February 24.
My vet said that as long as he's improving (even though he did regress for a day to being not quite right - then came back to being normal the next day), to keep doing what I'm doing and add 5 minutes every two weeks.
Still taking it slow since it appears his initial diagnosis of ringbone was not correct and there is really no clear way to diagnose a sound horse.
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 12:45 am:
HI Aileen,
I can empathize with your reluctance to hop on board after a long period of layup. Especially if the critter in question appears to feel frisky!
I am hoping that eight weeks of walking the same pattern on the bridle path over and over will have reduced Justin's tendency to find fire breathing dragons in the trees. I have also taken to grazing him at spots that he finds a tad "interesting" to desensatize him. The summer heat may also help minimize the energy level output. We have access to a round pen with solid sides and I have even been mulling around the idea of riding him bareback in the round pen when we get the go ahead to ride.. (See what you started Christos...Been thinking about this discussion all day!) (grin)
Have you had another ultrasound done to check on healing progress? Do you have to do your riding on trails or do you have access to an arena?
Thankyou for the progress report..I'll look forward to hearing how you and Brave are doing as time goes by.
Smiles,
Debra
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 11:09 am:
Hi Debra, the vet never did an ultrasound...even after I asked him to. Just xrays because he was sure it was ringbone.
If I had a roundpen I'd be up in there toot sweet and with my eyes closed -- another Christos revelation
Edited to add...he was lame last night but on a different leg...seemed betterh this morning --phtu phtu -- Thanks to Lynn, I'll be using this phrase a lot
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 12:23 pm:
Oh, How frustrating for you to not know what is going on with Brave..
Is the alternating lameness from one front leg to the other or front to back? We were not sure for a couple of months if Justin had a problem in the front (shoulders) or the back(hocks) He would be "off", but nobody watching could really be sure because he wasn't headbobbing, but he really wasn't right either..He would be stiff on one or the other side in the front, but sometimes seem to "work out" of it, but then othertimes, bunny hop at the trot wanting to canter like his hind end was bothering him..No swelling, no heat, no favoring one leg over the other noticeably. He seemed to improve for a couple of weeks after hock injections, but still wasn't "right".
The ultrasound showed that he had involvment of the check ligaments in BOTH front legs with the left much more pronounced on ultrasound than the right. His left leg is definitely affected with three different structures involved, but when we re-ultrasound in a couple of weeks, the right leg check ligaments will also be checked to determine their healing progress.
I offer our situation because having the ultrasound done really helped us figure out what our problem was, what extent the injury was and where. I do not know if having an ultrasound would help figure out what is going on with Brave..at the worse, it would rule out a problem that perhaps you don't have and allow you to concentrate in a different direction.. At best, you would know more about the integrity of Brave's tendon/ligaments and go from there..
Well, I feel for you... Please keep me posted. Maybe you and I will be riding at the same time this summer!
Smiles,
Debra
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 3:20 pm:
Wow Debra, what you described Justin was doing is almost identical to Brave's actions...
I'll be bringing him down to get checked out probably sooner rather than later. He'll get another round of xrays and I'll request ultrasound just to see if we can see anything.
Thanks so much Debra!
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Friday, Jun 3, 2005 - 5:57 pm:
Yuo are most welcome..
I forgot to mention that one possibility of how this MIGHT have happened is called a "prop injury"
Justin was turned out three mornings a week thru out the rainy season and our turnouts can get pretty slick. Justin loves to roll in the mud.
Evidently, as a horse props himself up on his front legs as they are getting up, if their leg slips they can get a hyperextension of the check ligament. I've seen Justin's front legs slip when he has gotten up, but never equated getting up from a good roll in the mud as the reason why he was gimpy.. Guess who will never be turned out during the rainy season from here on out....
Best of Luck Aileen. I hope you find some answers.
Smiles,
Debra
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 7:13 am:
Aileen & Debra: aren't these regressions strange - and disheartening? I was really pleased earlier this week with my horse's progress; she was standing nice and square most of the time, and swinging along in the walk. Then, after telling friends it was going great (and NOT saying phtu phtu), she started lifting the bad LF sorrowfully, and even going really short on the RF. It lasted 2 or 3 days and now - dare I say it? - she seems fine again (oh no, what am I saying? PHTU PHTU PHTU! Maybe I shouldn't post this? oh well, here goes...)
Lynn 
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 9:06 am:
Neither radiographs or ultrasounds are the way to start a lameness exam Aileen, I would want it relocalized, and you probably know the article to see by now.
DrO
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 4, 2005 - 11:03 am:
LOL, Dr. O, yes I know the article well
He will have a full on lameness exam, complete with blocking...unless of course he is sound the day we go Whether or not he is sound, I will probably have a set of xrays and ultrasound done just to see what we have...I may include the knees as well. Just to see if anything is brewing in there.
Debra, thanks again, I appreciate your feedback! After rereading your post above, he has djd in his hocks, so I pretty much ignore hind end lameness when I look at him, I know what he needs there. He was lame on the left in January, received a massage, then he was lame on the right...that's when this whole thing started. This last week was the only time he went lame on the left since January.
Lynn, it is so frustrating, that's why this website community is so great...we get support AND therapy
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Member:
9193
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 12:27 am:
Hello Lynn,
I was so glad to see your post. You had been on my mind as I corresponded with Aileen and was wondering how you and your mare were coming along in your rehab journey..what did you work out for a walking route at your barn? I do hope your regression was very minor and temporary!
Good Luck Aileen- I will certainly be interested in the results of your lameness exam on Brave.
Justin looks pretty sound at the walk too! He looks really sound at a standstill! And can act up sound as a dollar when he focuses on the deer wandering around in the bushes on our walks!!
I'll let you know in a couple of weeks if I need to join in on the PHTU, PHTU ritual. (grin)
Smiles,
Debra
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Member:
Frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 7, 2005 - 6:58 am:
Hi Debra - I'm so glad to hear Justin's rehab is showing good results (phtu phtu). When are you due for your next ultrasound? And did you ever discover whether slightly hilly walking is a no-no?
I'm still able to walk my mare in the arena, and usually at quietish times. If it gets a bit busy in there, I take her out and walk her up and down the corridor for the last five minutes. Since we're only doing 10 -15 mins twice daily, it's not so hard. At the end of this week we'll have completed the first month, so it's on to the 30 or 40 mins (not looking forward to that much in this heat!). I suppose it's just once a day though, right?
The worst worry at the moment is that the farrier has still not come to trim/shoe: on Friday it will be 9 weeks (instead of the 6 it should be). For the last 3 days he's been saying "for sure" he'll come the next day, and each day coming up with some feeble excuse. And of course when he does come, he'll then cut far too much off to make up for it, which is actually how my horse first went lame last Sept. I can't say that that was definitely the reason, but the lameness started the very next day.
Wonder if I should bute her when he comes? My trainer says first see the result and then bute her afterwards if there's a problem.
Anyway, it's good to hear your news.
Best of luck to all,
Lynn
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 18, 2005 - 4:38 pm:
Just an update. I had my horses' magnesium level tested and it was normal - he was on the Quiessence when he was tested - the vet said to go ahead and keep him on it.
Phtu Phtu Phtu...just in case.
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