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  Discussion on Vaccination Reaction Prevention Questions
Author Message
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 7:05 am:

DrO,

Last spring I gave the 4 in 1 in the neck area and rabies in the pec area per my vets instructions. She gave the West Nile, don't remember where.

All 4 horses had lots of swelling and stiffness from the rabies, with an abscess hanging under their chests for days.

After reviewing the articles on where to give shots, and giving Bute before shots, I have the following questions:

1. I don't see the pec area on the chest as a suggested spot for a shot to be given. Where would you suggest I give the rabies this year?

2. I know Bute helps within a couple of hours, and can take up to 18 hours to max out. Would 2 tabs 4 hours before be sufficient to start? Followed by another tab 12 hours later, or stick the higher suggested dose for a couple of days? 2g - 2x daily?

3. I am giving the West Nile Innovator + EWT also. First time for the combo. Would you suggest giving this first, then waiting for a few days then giving the rabies? Have you used this combo and if so, how is the reaction level?

Last year, the reactions cost me a trip to see family and friends. Same thing this year, leaving soon on vacation, don't want to be worrying about horses being miserable!

Thank you for your input.

Angie
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 7:39 am:

Angie I can't ans. your questions, but when the vet gave the horses their wnv vaccine they all got a dose of banamine at the same time. I had no reactions this year, not even a tiny bit of swelling.
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 9:59 am:

Since a mild reaction 2 years ago, I've also given a dose of banamine prior to sticking Sparkles. Since the banamine, there's been no reactions at all.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 11:02 am:

DrO,

Is Banamine that much better than Bute for this type of situation? I have the Bute, don't have the Banamine. If it makes a difference, I'll spend the extra to get the Banamine.

Thanks Diane and Fran.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 2:03 pm:

To lessen the chance of reactions, I split my vaccinations up by a couple of weeks, even though this involves two farm trips by my Vet. Years ago with an extremely reactive mare, I gave a Banamine shot prior to vaccinations with success. For minor stiffness, lethargy and swelling I have given one of my horses Bute a couple of times daily -- 1 - 2 grams twice a day for just a day or two.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 4:00 pm:

Hello Angie,
Though you see the pecs recommended in some references I don't use it because horses seem to resent it more and dependent edema common. I give vaccines in the neck as recommended in the article. As to how much bute and when you need to follow your veterinarians advice. I tend to follow the recommendations in the article however the amount of bute dosed depends on the amount of reaction and how well the horse responds so it is tailored case by case. I use the Fort Dodge combination product you are giving and don't have many reactions. If you think the combination with rabies worsens the reaction I would separate them by a week or two. Lastly if you have an important trip and a history of problems I would wait and vaccinate after I got home.
DrO
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 5:57 pm:

I don't have any horses that require flunixin for typical reactions to vaccination, they do very well on bute. I do have two horses in the practice that get a mild colic following vaccination and I give them flunixin.
DrO
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 6:42 pm:

DrO,

Thank you.

Come to think of it, in past years 2 of the 4 horses got some neck stiffness from giving the shots in the neck, but not as severe as with the pec problems last year. I'll give the shots in the neck, seperate by a week or so. And give Bute according to horses reaction last year.

I should be o.k. to go on vacation in mid June if I vaccinate this weekend!
New Member:
kippie

Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 7:27 pm:

Dear Dr. O,
My 20 year old horse had his second round of Spring shots 2 weeks ago. I had been riding him before the vet came. He had injections in the left side of the neck for Potomac, tetanus. He also had intranasal strangles. He tends to get a very stiff neck and he makes himself rigid at best and fights the shot at worst. He was pretty good this time. I gave him 2 g. bute right after the shots and rode him the following day very lightly. He was slightly stiff, not too bad, I didn't give any more bute. He had the following day off. When I rode him the next day, three days after the injections. He could not bend to the right and he could not even make his neck straight. He is still the same way 2 weeks after the shots! He can bend his neck to reach around to get a treat and when I move his head, but when I ride him (dressage) he doesn't bend his neck and head to the right. My trainer rode him and had the same problem. I started giving him bute again last night and this morning without improvement. Could this be a reaction, if not what could it be? I've read your suggestions for avoiding reactions. Do you recommend any one over the others in this situation? I'll called my vet, but haven't yet heard back from him.
Thanks,
Susan
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 9:11 am:

Susan,

I know you addressed DrO here, but I wanted to add that I am finding the reactions to giving shots to be so frustrating that I don't know if I will continue to vaccinate unless I know there are cases of the actual diseases really close to home.

I gave my horses the West Nile EWT on a Monday, gave Bute that morning and evening, and everyone seemed fine the next day. On Wednesday, Cody couldn't lower his head comfortably to graze, and he was trembling slightly, so I gave him more bute. He was shifting his hind legs also like he was colicky, and his breathing was a little be faster than normal. This continued for 2 more days scaring me half to death.

I would think in your case though, it's very strange to have this go on 2 weeks later? I am really curious to see what DrO thinks on this one.

And, WELCOME to HA!

PS, have you tried massaging him? Not just in the immediate area of where the needle was poked in, but start at his poll, and just slowly go down his neck near the mane, his shoulder area, and his chest. Watch for reactions, a blink can be a sign of an area that needs attention. If so, work it steadly with increasing firmness and watch for him to breath heavier, sigh, lick, yawn. Then step away, let him shake it off, and go on, doing both sides. He may have held his neck a certian way for a few days after the shot, then it caused some muscle tension in another spot and that needs some manual hands on work now.

Helped my guy a lot.
New Member:
kippie

Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 6:46 pm:

Angie, thank you for your good advice. I did massage my horse's poll on both sides and he relaxed and almost fell asleep. Following your instructions I will do more tomorrow. Today I lightly massaged the area with a magnetic device as well. I haven't used magnets on my horse, but at the advice of a friend I tried it. He was a little better today. I will give him 1 g of bute tomorrow, but I do want to get him off that ASAP.

I am having the same feelings that you are about vaccinating. I'm hoping to learn of some good pre and post shot treatments on HA that can lessen or prevent this in the future. I will find out from my vet the company that made the vaccines. Thank you so much, Angie for your advice and your welcome.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 9:28 pm:

For whatever it is worth -- an older cowboy told me not to give vaccines in the neck of reactive horses, but instead to put it as deeply into the muscle as possible in the hind area. He bought a mare from me who had had severe reactions three times (he was not in the least worried about this) and turned her into an accomplished roping horse. I never heard of her having any further problems.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 6:36 am:

Give the banamine a try, I'm sure there is no rhyme or reason for it to work better, but I was so impressed with no NO reactions this year in all 3 very reactive horse it is going to be my protocol from now on. I always did bute 2 days before and 3 days after...didn't noticeably help.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:40 am:

Welcome Susan,
The article recommends you continue NSAIDs for as long as the reaction persisted historically which seems to be the problem here. As to whether your horse is having a prolonged reaction or has developed a secondary infection is not clear. The article on injection and vaccine reactions does provide some guidelines but when uncertain you should contact your veterinarian.

Though Diane has reported this problem, we use bute successfully in all cases of stiffness.
DrO
New Member:
kippie

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:16 pm:

Dr. O, I wish that I had known about this site before my horse had his injections. I would have started him on bute before his shots and kept him on it longer. I will study your guidelines again and check it against the vaccines my horse is getting. I do have a call in to my vet and after reading your information I will be better prepared to discuss the issues with him. Thank you. Susan
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