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  Discussion on Grasse: COPD and Founder 2
Author Message
Member:
paardex

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 - 4:13 am:

Dr. O, I found a product of flakes of alfalfa [so very light it takes more time to eat thenpellets] but it is mixed this is what's in it:Alfalfa flakes, Mollasses, Beet Pulp, Oil [Colza but I don't know the English word]
Cellulose 23%
Proteine 12,7%
Fat 4,3%
As?minerals etc. 8,8%
Humidity 15%
I know it is rich for an obese horse but as she escapes small paddocks and can't eat stemmy hay without coughing I thought perhaps this could help her through the locked in time in a 'round pen'with sand and woodshavings?
The grass is growing so fast at the moment even with all my mowing she can't eat more then 4 hours a day [and she can do that only if I work her each day]
She already started to founder this spring then was locked in and last week had a small obstruction colic. She drinks about 100 litres a day[vet says boredom but he didn't take bloodsamples or whatever]
Any advice is really appreciated
Jos
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 - 6:04 am:

If you are looking for something to feed an easy keeper to prevent boredom I suggest you find a stemmy grass hay. If COPD is a problem I would be looking into the grass cubes.

I would also be concerned about the cal-phos amounts and balance of this product as it mainly consists of two products that have high calcium and low phosphorous for more on this see feeding beet pulp to horses.
DrO
Member:
paardex

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 - 6:14 am:

Thanks Dr O without the possiblity to feed fi oats this product isn't suitable I understand.
Grass pellets aren't available so I guess I will have to choose between hay and coughing or risk a colic.
I will try wet hay perhaps feeding it soaked does help a bit.
Jos
Member:
dres

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 - 9:40 am:

Dr. O.. you suggest a stemmy grass hay.. I have a couple of questions re that .. around here a three way mix of hay is becoming popular as it is cheaper.. it is a rye / wheat / barley mix... it looks like a fat straw . I have not bought it just does not look like something i would feed a horse... Another hay that is coming to the feed stores more and more is a beardless wheat hay... again very fat stems / straw like .. Would this classify as a ''stemmy hay''?
Thanks

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 - 10:20 am:

Jos, perhaps you have tried this already, but could you spread the steamy hay around Grasse's paddock? Breaking open the flakes outside in moving air helps decrease the dust, and scattering it around would encourage her to move around, make the hay last longer, and give her something to do. Of course you would not want to feed her on sand.

If you decide instead to soak your hay, a good way do to this is to fill a hay net with the dry hay, soak the whole thing in a big tub of water, and then hang the net full of wet hay up for your horse to eat. Having to eat the hay out of the hay net slows them down and makes the hay last longer. Soaking also decreases the sugar content, which helps decrease the chance of founder.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 - 5:36 pm:

Stemmy has more to do with the maturity of the plant than the type plant though certainly the stalks of mature small grains would be very stemmy and more accurately described as "straw".
DrO
Member:
imogen

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 5:19 am:

Jos, have you tried a grazing muzzle?

Imogen
Member:
paardex

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 5:23 am:

As soon as I can get one I will Imogen, I asked Sara to take one for me from the US. They are not really known over here
Jos
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 3, 2008 - 1:14 pm:

Jos, have you considered becoming a distributor for grazing muzzles in France and Holland? It sounds like it is an untapped market. Once you are a millionaire, don't forget who gave you the idea!
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 3:39 am:

Why don't you come over with a suitcase full of them Jo Ann, we will make enough money for you to have a free holiday and I will have help getting the fatties slim!

Jos
Member:
imogen

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 3:46 am:

I can post you one from Ireland tomorrow if you like as I'm not using it - should take 2 days to arrive but I will need your address.

Imogen
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 9:09 am:

Thanks Imogen Sara just promised me to bring a few when she comes over in a week or so. Can you imagine I offered friends with two really foundered horses one of them to try and they were aghast IT WAS MEAN! As if always being way to fat and on the verge of founder and then in pain is nice!
So much for the getting rich plan with selling grazing muzzles...
Jos
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 4, 2008 - 2:50 pm:

Thanks for the offer Jos, can I take a rain check on visiting until my RA is better? Despite your neighbor's reaction, I bet the grazing muzzles will catch on some day in Europe once people realize how invaluable they are for managing the foundered and founder-prone.

If it wasn't for her grazing muzzle, my mare could never leave her dry lot. She objected to wearing it at first, but now she sticks her nose right in because she knows that it means that she gets to go out in the big field with the sweet green grass. Even though she can only get little mouthfuls, she's happier and healthier wearing the muzzle in the pasture than being bored out of her mind in the dry lot.
Member:
imogen

Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 4:12 am:

You do actually feel extremely mean the first few days of using grazing muzzles but they get used to it quickly and don't seem to mind.

Make sure you read the other threads on grazing muzzles and get some soft material to wrap parts of the halter and muzzle which might cause abrasions.

Good luck!

Imogen
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Jun 5, 2008 - 11:08 am:

Jo Ann come whenever you like! The French are almost religously taking care of themselves with all kind of thalasso healing baths old natural methods[accompanied by horrible teas etc] And Britanny has some famous 'resorts' You could try if it brings you into shape to help me work the fat of the horses!
I saw the old threads Imogen and am going to give it a go weather she likes it or notthe end result[the double hours in a big field] must make it up to her[perhaps it even triples the hours if she plays with the other horses?]
Thanks
Jos
Member:
paardex

Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 3:51 am:

Couldn't stand Grasse locked in as only horse in such a small environment especially as she started to cough within two days of[very wet] hay
So I am building her her own little dry lot with wooden poles on strategic points and electricity firmly on all lines[8,6 yahoo !] as there is grass she eats and I have the time to finish the work slowly[good thing digging a hole over here is not the same as in Holland]
She has about the size of a big dressage arena with a shelter for two horses and can see all other horses . It will have to be her permanent living space and I can let her out according to weight just like Hank and his friends. Perhaps the grazing muzzle will double her free time if she accepts it.
Jos
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jun 6, 2008 - 5:41 am:

Jos once Hank was use to the muzzle he got to be out all day with it on. He did pout occasionally.

Hope Grasse appreciates your efforts of making her a nice pen. The things we do for these animals.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 3:44 am:

Grasse is accepting the muzzle like she knew it all her life. I think it's a wonderful device she stays nibbling/eating all 24/7 long [she is now at wearing it about 20 hours on end] and is so happy she can stay with Cascade she doesn't seem to mind her constricted eating.
This way she could even go on a holiday to Brittany again, take her grazing muzzle and she will not be able to eat herself to death in a to rich pasture.
How long can she wear it? Because she really is fat I would love her to keep it on all the time just remove it twice a day for a handfull of something to check if she isn't getting sore underneath? Anyone with experience?
And how does this work with hay because she has COPD she shouldn't eat that and the others normally have free choice hay if she couldn't touch it it would be wonderful.
Next thing I am going to bring from the US is a weighttape! Gosh have you invented some practical stuff!!
Jos
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 6:33 am:

JOS it's so nice you figured pics out and I finally get to see Grasse, she is a cutie.

I think you can leave the muzzle on as much as you want as long as she is comfortable and doesn't get rubs. I think like grass they can get a little hay through the muzzles...though Hank could never figure it out.

Dr.O. has something in here about how to use a regular tape measure to "weigh them" although I think it involves math!

Keep up the good work. I think Hank may be going back in the dry lot. With all this rain the grass/clover is just going nuts, hard to believe it's July.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 6:40 am:

Thanks Diane we Dutch are a little slow in getting things[like our horses patience please]
I'll wait till I am in the US in october for the weighttape[might be better if not I will give myself a heartattackwhen I read off first my weight and then Grasses]
At this moment it is getting a little dry over here so the grass is less rich, slimming should be done before september I suppose then the grass starts growing again...
Jos
Member:
paardex

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 9:00 am:

I can't believe this is happening! Grasse was on a very meagre pasture WITH grazing muzzle for the last week. She worked each day, granted walk and slow trot but at least 1 hour a day AND SHE GOT FATTER!
Back to lock up during the night[6 pm to 10 am] with really nothing but a bucket of water and a few branches from the hedge she manages to get to and daily turnout with grazing muzzle in the field[due to the flies absolutely no more then 5 hours nibbling with muzzle is all she gets!]
Big horses you cannot ride are a problem but fat ponylike small ones..
Jos
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 10:05 am:

Jos I can believe it! As much as I hate to say it starvation is about the only thing that takes the weight off Hank. I had to remove him from 24/7 turnout on a short short pasture. He was getting fat.

He's now in dry lot for 22 hrs. a day with 2 leafs (6lbs of stemmy old hay and doesn't seem to be loosing anything.

With his sore feet I can't exercise him, hopefully the shoes will cure that Tues, but from experience I'm pretty sure exercise won't make much of a difference. I sure wish they had a magical pill for this
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 11:08 am:

Maybe she is related to Beaulima, Jos? Lonnie was complaining that we have all this pasture and I don't leave the horses out on it. They would all either explode, or eat themselves to death.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 1:20 pm:

Bet you Hank and Grasse are genetic clones of Beaulimas worst genes
I think I will now try Dr.O's training schedule[5 days a week a good trail ride] locking her in so long without hay is very hard on her and it can't be healthy.
In the end perhaps I will loose weight too.
Will honestly update on the both of us as I found the weightmeasurement section
Jos
Member:
paardex

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 1:47 pm:

OK 27 -7 Grasse is according to girth[206 cm] appr.1290[!!!] lbs
Jos
I'm 75 kg and should loose at least 10
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 1:52 pm:

JOS!! You didn't have to POST the weights. I'm going to have to lock myself in a stall with no food along with the horses!
Member:
paardex

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 1:59 pm:

Well I didn't post your weight and your horses are certainly lighter then Grasse[Sara is lighter then me too ]
Jos
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 2:58 pm:

WEll Jos Grasse tops Hank. He is about 1o80#'s at 15hh. How tall is Grasse?? His perfect weight on the tape anyway is about 900#'s UGGHHH. Why did you make me think about that! He's 180#'s overweight! I haven't taped him, but at this point I can eyeball his weight pretty close
Member:
paardex

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 3:59 pm:

I surely must have done something wrong perhaps didn't put the twine on the slimmest part of Grasse she is only 15,5 hh. But I bet she is at least 300lbs overweight! Oh dear, these are going to be long rides with no coffeebreaks[touch wood but she IS sound so she should be able to work]
Jos
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 4:41 pm:

That's weird, I was encouraged to go tape the 3 little pigs

Hank has stayed the same since April...938#'s

Flash has lost about 50#'s ...747#'s

Sam has lost about 20#s..... 736#'s

So much for eyeballing!

Seriously do they bloat or something in the summer, mine LOOK much fatter than they did before grass? Obviously they don't weigh more.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 3:02 am:

Well Diane on your pics Hank still looks slim to me. Perhaps they get more of a belly from the grass. But Grasse has it on her shoulders and behind and THAT certainly isn't bloating.
I'm happy for you perhaps if I devote a year to slimming this pig she will stay slimmer to like yours
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 5:17 am:

Jos I'm not buying into Hanks weight according to the tape. It is the same tape I always use, but he looks fat to me. The other 2 look ok.

He's staying in the dry lot until he "unbloats"and deflates.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 5:37 am:

Jos maybe Dr.O. can comment on this, but mine are without food from 8pm to 7am in the summer (WHEN ON DIET) and I have had no ill effects. Boarded horses also are like that at barns around here. With seemingly no ill affects, except hungry horses in the morning.

My "drylot" is pretty big so at least they can move around and there is some slim pickens' in there.

Be careful starting the exercise at first, the fat ones are out of shape and tire easily...start slowly. When I rode Hank the other day in the "arena" he tired very easily and we didn't do much, because I didn't wan to damage his feet.

Good Luck
Member:
paardex

Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 6:24 am:

Diane she is back in sort of a dry lot with each day one metre of 'grass' extra. That's all she getsThe grazing muzzle rubbed and she is really fat[I got scared after I measured her didn't realise it was this bad!]Now she is back to drinking more then a hunderd litres of water a day. How much problems can one horse invent?
We went in the forest this morning[according to the article on how to get a slim horse trot until she breaths to fast walk til she breaths normal and repeat three times] It took 1,5 hour!
Where does this fatty find a condition like that? Now she has an insectbite[?] on her side and I am sure the single will rub so bet tomorrow will bring a lungeline once again[I am NOT going to trot bareback trough the forest! I'd rather meet a snake]
Jos
PS If I keep this up Pukey will meet me in perfect condition
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