|
|
Discussion on Gelding a 9 year old breeding stallion?
|
| Author |
Message |
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 - 9:39 am:
Dr. O I must be nuts , but am considering buying a 9 year old stallion..I will have him gelded before bringing him home IF I buy him.. My question: right now he is a very well behaved stallion under saddle and in hand.. BUT he can't be kept next to other horses in the barn as he screams and gets excited all the time.. Do you think this behavior will stop once gelded.. ? Or is this a set in response to other close horses?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 - 9:55 am:
Hi Ann, I had a friend who gelded her 12 yr. old stallion, who was also well behaved but she needed to keep him with other horses and was no longer breeding him. It took about 6 mos. before he started acting more like a gelding. You should be aware though that some stallions will never quiet down, especially if they have been used for breeding.
|
Member:
ekaufman
|
Posted on Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 - 10:14 am:
Hi Ann,
I am considering gelding my 6 year-old breeding stallion (a sad story) who is similarly well-behaved at work, and studdy on his own time. I have talked to many people about likely outcomes, and it seems to be quite horse-dependent.
It will not make him worse, almost certainly. Most of them get much better, with a few that don't change at all, and the rest in the middle.
I do think that some of the remaining anxious/annoying behavior comes from poor socialization as youngsters, rather than true studdishness. If your guy was not socialized with other horses, he may have trouble as an adult regardless of a castration decision. Poorly socialized geldings (and mares) can be difficult to manage as well, but people don't associate that behavior with breeding.
So it seems to me you would likely get some improvement. Whether he would settle completely is hard to predict.
Post photos! Is this the Knabby?
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 - 10:51 am:
My horses are so social , i hate to have one that is not.  Thanks ladies for the replies.. and Yes Elizabeth this is a Knabstrupper.. never ridden one so not sure if a Knappy is only a dream horse for me or not.. they are quite baroque like, but i will soon know..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 8:55 am:
Hello Ann,
You will find a complete answer to his question in the article on Castration.
DrO
|
Member:
alisa
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 10:24 am:
Hi Ann,
I had my horse Kid castrated in late March this year. He is seven years old and had never been used as a stud. He had always been stabled, not a lot of turn out, his was a show halter horse for years. He was pumped. In my mind it was a big question mark as to how well it would help this next phase of his life, that is, included in a herd and used for pleasure riding.
It was hard to know Kids true nature because he was a young vital horse closed up in a stall so he was lively.
In all I believe that it did calm him down - and I have him in a herd now with no problems at all. He is a very good citizen.
Two points - one) it took some time for him to mellow and two) because of his age in castration I think it was a more painful operation for him. If the vet has no problem with it - painkillers are nice. Also a lot of turn out so that he can keep moving.
I was torn about breeding him before castration because he is such a beautiful horse - but when I came to understand that that might compromise his ultimate adjustment to a mellow gelding I made the choice to give him every support for his ultimate success as a gelding.
Alisa
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 1:55 pm:
Alisa good point about the turn out.. IF I GET THIS HORSE i will have him gelded there , so i won't be in control of his rehabbing.. I will make sure i check to see if he / the boarding barn has a place for him to move about.. thanks..
BTW https://www.knabstruppers4usa.com:80/Fable.phpTW this is the boy i am going to look at..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 1:59 pm:
https://www.knabstruppers4usa.com/Fable.php
opps this one works i hope..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 6:31 pm:
Ann,
Oh, I LIKE, I LIKE him!!! What a handsome guy! His face!
I bought an American Saddlebred years ago who had just been gelded 3 months prior. He around 8 if I remember correctly. No bad habits except he'd get a little light in the front, rearing up a tad was his way of protesting. We used him for trail riding, and he was a good horse. He'd been stabled his whole life for the most part before I bought him, and the guy who'd raised him from birth was one of those who man handled his horses. "Socks" wasn't tall enough to be the main stallion, but his sure was nice...miss him.
Your Knabby looks like he's got a good mind and disposition to me.
|
Member:
canter
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 6:34 pm:
Beautiful, boy, Ann. It's easy to see why you'd want to add him to your herd.
About a month ago, while at a show, there was a lovely Friesian stallion showing. He was very, very well behaved most of the time. The only time I saw him the slightest bit naughty was when I walked my mare by his stall on the way to the indoor arena for warm-up (at that point, I hadn't been told he was a stallion) - then he lunged at her. But once under saddle, while in the ring and at all other times, he really was the perfect gentleman...even as I was coming out of the ring and he was going in, no problems. Since this was about as close to a stallion as I have ever been, I was really impressed by how good he was. Somebody obviously had done a very good job handling him.
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 6:43 pm:
He's very handsome Ann, like you say, very baroque-looking. I notice the ad says:
"...only the 2nd registered and approved Knabstrupper stallion currently standing in the United States."
While I can certainly understand not wanting a screaming stallion in the barn, he sounds like a rather valuable breeding horse. Or are there now lots more good Knappy stallions for breeders to choose from?
Best wishes with your purchase decision. Have you ridden him yet?
|
Member:
erika
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 7:05 pm:
Yeah, Ann,I thought this was the horse you were looking at to add to your breeding program?
He is a beauty, I too am wondering why you'd buy him as a gelding? Just curious...
Erika
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 7:29 pm:
Ann he is a beauty!. We had a 7 yr.old stallion gelded at the barn, his temperment changed quite a bit after gelding. I will say he had a bad time after the operation, I don't know if it was the technique or what, but it took a long time for the swelling to go down and it got infected. These people weren't much for turnout, so that could have been a big part of the problem.
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 7:30 pm:
He is lovely and I can't wait to see him in person and test him..
I am trying not to breed anymore horses, age / time all are factors now for us... I have one mare that If I WERE to breed it would be her , my rehab filly .. He is one of two imported stallions here in the U.S. but he is not homozygous the other one is .. So if you are breeding for color, well I know I would go with a sure bet.. OH thats right , I have my solid born Tom in the field.. by a homozygous appy sporthorse stallion .. I have wanted a Knappy for a very long time and have kept my ear to the ground waiting for a riding one to come up for sale.. Here in the states there are only a handful of them and mostly young stock ..
I know husband says the same thing , why ? But he has not been around horses all his life as I have been and lived on a breeding ranch.. Stallions take extra everything... . . .
I really don't need another horse.. I really don't need a nother horse..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
alisa
|
Posted on Friday, Aug 29, 2008 - 11:22 pm:
Ann,
He took my breath away! Wow!
Somehow I'm not surprised that he has spots...
Good Luck, he is a exceptional horse - no doubt about that.
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 4:32 am:
Ann, after looking at the pics your 'I don't need another horse' seems a lost battle to me . He really is gorgeous if he feels like he looks like he must be a pleasure to ride.
My first horse was half Knabbstrub[imported from Denmark] I could afford him because he was bay!
And with our learning together I was glad he wasn't more of an eyecatcher . He had a very good character though calm and though a bit stubborn we became the best of friends[and as I was 16 and he 4 that says it all about his character]
Good luck hope you take him home.
Jos
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 10:58 am:
Need help hooking up the trailer, Ann? (There's no way you are going to turn this horse down, I can tell you that right now!)
I'm going to have to come and visit you and see this guy in person. I've only seen one Knappy in person and it was no where as beautiful as this guy.
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 8:07 pm:
 ugh.. I am looking for every excuse WHY I should not be doing this.. then I think . .but its my dream horse or is it.. ???
Ok I have figured out where to put a winter paddock for him, next to my gelding should be ok ? once gelded.. Now IF this should come together.. should i have him gelded there, and i can't babysit him .. or bring him home and board him out first and geld there so i can see him daily.... OH TO MANY THINGS TO PONDER..
... and... I am thinking hiring a pro hauler , seems silly for me to travel all the way there 12 hour drive and then back again..
Ok HA gang.. HELP ME..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 8:42 pm:
You only live once....DO IT! If he isn't your dream horse after all, then keep looking, one can never have to many horses..
I think I would have him gelded where he is, he will have enough stress with a new home and all.
Good Luck.
|
Member:
juliem
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 8:47 pm:
Well Ann, you should never open this up to discussion--we're only going to encourage you! You mentioned earlier age and time as factors for not breeding. And I say age and time are factors for buying this horse if he's your dream. I have developed a serious "now or never" attitude since passing sixty. If you have the resources to do it, go for it! Can't really advise on the gelding question. I would want to be in control of the variables, but that's just me. And Cyndy is a very valuable resource for the hauling question. Again, if you have the resources, I think I'd go with a pro like Walt. You've struggled with your rehab issues and now it's time to have some fun!!
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 9:52 pm:
I dont understand, where is the question mark???
He is magnificent, this is your dream.... again I ask, where is the question?
My vote..... do it.
There is no such thing as ignoring your dreams without exchanging them for a maalox moment. If you don', it will eat at you and you will always wonder about the one that got away...
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 9:54 pm:
ps.... thanks Julie.
|
Member:
ekaufman
|
Posted on Saturday, Aug 30, 2008 - 11:23 pm:
He's very handsome. But I will be the devil's advocate and say that if he is an FEI prospect, look veeeery carefully before you buy. He is not necessarily conformationally ideal to school right to the top.....
Most handsome horses don't go Grand Prix. Most baroque horses don't either. You know this as well as I do-- that big front end is beautiful, but he needs to balance it and carry it from behind and over his topline. The photos suggest he has not been taught to do that yet, so you will need to decide what his capabilities are, and how willing he is to go there.
And you're going to x-ray those front feet, yes? Looks like his hoofcare may not be as good as it could be.
How's that for devil's advocacy? Dream horses are wonderful, but riding dreams need very careful selection of the horse....
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 12:06 am:
maybe I'm stupid, but I am not sure why you would want to geld him? Won't he still have his studdish behavior if he has been standing for some time? What will be accomplished besides ending the line?
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 12:34 am:
Ahhh Elizabeth.. you sound like my trainer and what my gut is trying to tell me..!~ Thus my trainer is flying out with me So that I can have that devil's advocate at my side.. My understanding is he is not schooled far in Dressage that he has been used since arriving in the states as a jumper..
I agree about the front hoofs, long toe funny shape! This horse will be vetted thoroughly.. I bought a nice mare years ago going well , then one small miss step and we find after a ultrasound a OLD suspensory injury with a lot of scare tissue to compromise her.. Valuable lesson on that one ..
Cyndy the topic of this discussion is ' if I geld him will the behavior go away ' .. its a chance ..
Cyndy you all haul out west??
Thanks gang I needed someone to talk this out with , as my husband is not talking hehehehe..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 12:40 am:
Ann, if he vets out o.k., my vote is also go for it...I'm well over 60,too, which probably alters my reasoning powers some.
|
Member:
leilani
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 1:50 am:
Ann, Oh my. In western terms I believe he would be flea bit. Leilani
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 4:45 am:
Ann, If you like him I would get him to a good clinic have him vetted thoroughly if everything is OK then immediately castrated in the clinic.
The paddock next to the gelding is a perfect idea it is possible to a pregnant broodmare or two next to him would do just as well.
You only live once!
[And I loved the pics boy would I love to ride/be carried by a baroque horse!just to get the feel!]
Jos
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 8:35 am:
Walt just got home last night from a west coast trip. Idaho, Oregon,Wa then down to SOCAL and Ocala. We have a client who sends a trailerload east from SanYnez every couple of months. I can get up with George and see if Frank has gone on another shopping spree. He just came back from Poland, so I would expect another trip in Oct... I will be looking for westbound horses then.
We have a horse overnighting here who has to go to Md today, (they will drive through Va) if you have not had someone see this horse in person, do you want me to see how far he will be passing by Fable to see if he can stop in to see him first hand? The website just said Shanandoah Valley. I haven't even mapped his route out yet. Caffeine and fed horses first... then map. Priorities.
|
Member:
ajudson1
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 8:59 am:
I just remembered a few years back, I kept seeing this one horse on various online horses for sale ads. I kept bugging my husband to let me take a look at him as he wasn't too far from here.
So, one wintery day, we took a road trip and I got to meet my dream horse. And I was so disappointed, I didn't like him at all in the flesh. The owners son was feeding, and this horse was a holy terror at feeding time. And I won't own a horse that acts like that in the herd; it's dangerous for everyone concerned IMO.
I realised there was a reason he was 7 years old and untrained, and still for sale.
Just throwing this out there because sometimes we are in love with the dream and lose (it that lose, not loose, right? lol!) sight of what a good horse really is...manners, confirmation, etc.
So take off those rose colored glassed before signing the check!
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 10:05 am:
You all are so wonderful.. I feel like I am talking with each one over coffee!~ I have a leg/ hoof picture she sent me and in looking closer without the rose colored glasses it appears his left front toes in and I swear he is in Natural Balance shoes YUCK! Nice bone tho
Angie, I agree that is why I must take this trip, to see if this is my true fantasy horse.. I have only seen one Knabstrupper in person , Apollon , he was incredible.. but old and only in hand but what a sweetie pie. He is in this horses pedigree ..
Cyndy I am in N. CA and this horse is in Phoenix.. but there are some Knappys up in the Shenandoah Valley, in fact I considered one , last year ? two years ago a yearling at the time ..
One day and a wake up to go...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
ekaufman
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 10:18 am:
Ok Ann. Then I shall hush myself. But evaluate him as if he were a sorrel AQHA, and look hard at his walk and the second beat of his canter at liberty. Stare at that hind end and that back, and ask yourself whether you want this horse or an FEI horse....
|
Member:
hpyhaulr
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 11:21 am:
I can;t disagree with Angie, if you can, get out there to see him. Since he is not that far from you....if he is your dream horse, you will know it. I would definitely want to see how he handles feeding as well. We made that mistake once with Honey Bear. She was magnificent, well pedigreed, but seriously food agressive. We could NOT put her with another mare and not even near anyone when there was food involved. She wanted to be an only child and did not play nice with others except when riding. Go figure
If you like, PM me and I may be able to help you with hauling referrals for west coast haulers. My email addy is in my profile. I hope he lives up to your expectations and you get him home with no worries.
|
Member:
sunny66
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 12:31 pm:
Ann, he is gorgeous But I agree with Elizabeth, pretend he's Brave when you go see him ... LOL
I have to admit, his coloring makes him exotic and pleasing to the eye and I think it would be an honor to just sit on him, but I know you want to move up the levels... keep thinking with that smart brain of yours. If you do get him and geld... maybe freeze some first, just in case?
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Sunday, Aug 31, 2008 - 3:25 pm:
I love the advice to evaluate him as a "sorrel AQHA." I remember that I once really wanted to buy a half-Lipizzaner mare. Couldn't get "The White Stallions of Vienna" out of my mind. Luckily my instructor was game for a road trip and came along to see this dream horse. With her objective eyes, she could see that the mare wasn't suited to me. If she hadn't been there I would have brought home a horse that in hindsight, just wouldn't have been right for me. Still, I hope this guy works out for you Ann. Nothing like a dream to quicken the heart...
|
Member:
beckyo
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 12:39 am:
Ann - Wow! He is beautiful.
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 9:29 am:
one more wake up >>> and i am sick today .. ugh.. flu like symptoms.. body aches/ stuffy nose.. Been with the grand kids all weekend , the little petri dishes that they are..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 10:17 am:
Oh Ann, sounds like you're getting the stuff that's been going around here. It's hard to get rid of, so start taking care of it early and don't let it get into a sinus infection or bronchitis, which is what is happening to a lot of folks.
Maybe a new horse would make you feel better?
|
Member:
paardex
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 10:51 am:
If the virus is that bad Sara I think she needs two new horses![or perhaps a stallion with whom you can breed one of your mares Ann?]
Jos
PS You all choosing new horses is so much fun I nearly do not need another horse myself?
|
Member:
beckyo
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 11:35 am:
Why is it horses are like an addiction, you can only ride one at a time, but we always want more. When we went to look at the guy we bought for my husband, the trader brought out this huge red QH. It was magnificent. When I was asked to step out of the way while he was tacked I knew we were in for a treat. When he was mounted, the horse bucked twice, twirled around, tossed his head to the side so his mane went flying. It was like he said, "look at how magnificent I am" Then when asked, he moved like a pro. I was in love. My husband kept saying "why don't you ride him?"
When we finally got home I had to tell him, I didn't ride him because the checkbook was in the car!
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 11:54 am:
Good question! Maybe it is because they are all so different, different personalities, different rides, different challanges. And, it is fun to watch their interactions. Or maybe it is because it is like collecting works of art? Whatever the reason, it's a common "addiction!"
|
Member:
beckyo
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 4:24 pm:
I like the works of art analogy! My horse is a real piece of work all right!
|
Member:
sunny66
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 7:23 pm:
Could everyone please say a prayer for Ann? There is a fire about 1.5 miles from her. The trailer's hooked up ready to go at a moment's notice. She said she has good backup if the need arises, I just pray it doesn't arise!
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 7:42 pm:
Prayers being said. What a terrible feeling that must be, having a fire knocking at your front door.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 8:20 pm:
More prayers! My sister-in-law and brother went through evacuating when those fires were in So. Cal. last year. I can't think of anything more frightening. Poor Ann, and everyone else in the area, esp. those with animals to worry about.
|
Member:
sunny66
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 8:22 pm:
I just saw a news report, 30 mph gusts I think I should have started a new thread, will go start one now.
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 9:30 pm:
I hope the winds are blowing the fire closer to her! You don't live all that far away, do you?
|
Member:
sunny66
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 10:25 pm:
Sara, when I talked to her she said the winds were in her favor, but those gusts I'm about 35 minutes away, no fires in my immediate area and the winds aren't as bad up here.
|
Member:
sunny66
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 1, 2008 - 11:19 pm:
I'm double posting this here, just in case...Zero percent containment, up to 500 acres Looks like she's been evacuated, her road is listed on the fire department site.
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 9:26 am:
I am in love with this horse, now to see if I can get all my ducks in a row .. I really don't need another riding horse AND I am not set up for 5 horses right now , and a newly gelded stallion at best..
This horse is very studdy in hand , but when a saddle is put on his back it is all about work and behaves better then some of my mares!~ He is eye candy for sure he has TWO good gaits.. the deal breaker is his weak walk / amount of re training he will need to be a dressage horse .. I have a lot to think about.. I will have 5 riding horses if I were to bring him home , I can barely ride 2 a day and keep them tuned up I have my rehab mare in full training with her rehab , I have my 2 year old that will need to be started next spring and then this handsome boy will need some consistent work to be able to even show him training/ first level!!~
So you see I have some '' practical'' thinking now to do..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
mrose
|
Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 10:12 am:
I have faith in you, Ann. With a little rationalization, you'll be able to overcome all that pracicality in no time!
|
Member:
beckyo
|
Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 10:29 am:
Sara -
|
Member:
ekaufman
|
Posted on Thursday, Sep 4, 2008 - 4:20 pm:
Hi Ann,
Tell us about his weak walk.
The rest sounds like logistics to me, honestly. And you will make a good choice either way, so it's just waiting until you know what you really want. As you know!
|
Member:
dres
|
Posted on Monday, Sep 8, 2008 - 1:53 pm:
Well i have decided to walk away.. to many hoops to jump thru and two issues that were to large to over look.. .Lack of training and cost and the fragil walk .. I tried Sara..
I will continue to concentrate on Danni and Prima for now.. and keep my ear to the ground on another Knappy.. Got to say they have the most amazing temperament ..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2008 - 7:47 am:
Too Bad Ann I hope you find your dream horse Knappy someday...probably when you're not looking!
|
Member:
jowidner
|
Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2008 - 10:37 pm:
Ann, I'm sure you are feeling a bit of disappointment, but I bet that Knappy stallion is feeling pretty relieved to be keeping his manhood! 
|
|
|
