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Discussion on Understanding the Frog
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 8:27 am:
Hello,
I am trying to understand the natural trim and the role of the frog vs. my farriers techniques to see if he is on the correct track with my horse's hooves. I plan on taking some pictures this afternoon and will post them later.
When he trims my horse, he trims the frog lightly. He says this helps prevent thrush because we live in a moderately wet climate especially during spring and fall. When my barefoot horse gets his frog trimmed, he is always sore after trimming. I've had farriers in the past that trimmed his frog so excessively he was lame. This farrier is aware of that and says he only trims what is necessary. My question is, how much is necessary? If I understand the article proper barefoot trimming does not involve trimming the frog, but does that leave a horse more prone to thrush? I feel this farrier is open to my suggestions but I want to advise him appropriately for our environment. Most farriers I've had here in Wisconsin feel our wet environment is not good for the natural four point trim and won't do it. At least this guy is open to new ideas! Any help you can give me is appreciated.
Linda
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 8:56 am:
Linda,
I am about 18 months into trimming my own horses, and I follow the rule of only taking off loose areas of the frog. From what I remember reading is that in dry areas, the frog becomes very tough and almost shriveled looking, and in wet areas, the frog gets more meaty and stays softer. So I take that to mean that the frog adapts to the environment and we should do minimal trimming to it.
Interesting to me personally, was I posted a question about one of my horses having very full and meaty frogs on a Yahoo group. I put pictures up too, and the responses didn't have much to do with the frog but rather my trimming needed to change. So it seemed the frog was so big because it was trying to protect a foot that had the heels moving forward, and the sole very flat. As I've changed the shape of the foot, the excess frog does not show up any more, and I never did trim the frog excessively.
So, my thoughts are there is something else wrong with a trim that is causing a horse to be sore after trimming, and I see no reason to trim the frog as it will trim itself as the hoof adjusts; and as the environment changes.
I do though, take off soft areas if it's been wet for a spell. Usually the soft areas are loose too. You can tell what should come off and what should stay when you cut into it.
I've never had thrush in any of my horses so maybe I am lucky, but I also tweak my horses hoofs every week or 2. I don't see what a wet environment has to do with whether or not you can do a barefoot/4 point trim. It is an intesting question, and I will ask my trimmer helper to see what she has to say.
Do your horses have a dry area to go into? Do you stall them at least a few hours daily when it's wet? Balance between too wet and too dry is very important.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 5:06 pm:
I was interested to see this discussion also as I was doing some trimming yesterday and thinking about the frog and sole and just how much to trim.
Linda, has your horse been trimmed and the frog left alone and the horse was sound?
It has been my observation that after I trim the walls and I check the level the frog is the high point. So I trim the frog down so it is level with the walls or just a shade under.
This seems to make the horse more comfortable.
Another observation is that on some horses, esp if they are a bit flat footed the sole comes into contact with the ground first, this is definitely not comfortable for the horse.
I think also that if the horse is on soft ground most of the time the frog is not able to wear off faster than it grows so it will need a bit of trimming.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 5:25 pm:
With a sound horse, you can get by with a lot of little mistakes in trimming, but they should NEVER be sore after! If the horse is sore right after trimming and was sound prior, and it's definitely attributable to the trimming, something (or someone!) needs to be changed!
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:30 pm:
Angie,
My horse is outside in a pasture most of the time. There is a part of the paddock that gets muddy, but he is not standing there for any long periods of time. He goes into a stall twice daily for grain and is then let out into the paddock at night. He is on soft ground, especially at this time of year, quite often. I was once told by another farrier that the softness of our ground is why barefoot trimming does not work here. He claimed the "mustang trim" is for horses on dry soil like they have out west. I have read enough about this to believe it is not true.
Lori,
The former farrier trimmed his frog so short, I could see pink skin. He was lame for 2 months. I told the new farrier about this and asked him to leave the frog alone and what I wrote above was his reaction. He had not trimmed any frog for the five months he has worked on my horse until this past trimming on Monday. My horse has been sound all this time but now is "ouchy". That is what makes me think the problem lies in trimming his frog. I was not present when he trimmed so I don't know why he felt he needed to trim it, but I presume the wet weather had him concerned.
Here are pictures taken four days after trimming.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:43 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:47 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:48 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:49 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:50 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:52 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:53 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:54 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 9:57 pm:
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2008 - 10:49 pm:
Hi Linda, I struggle with hooves also. I'm not sure what foot is which in your pics, but from the above pics it appears your horse has some major flaring going on, along with a long toe. FME that can make for a sore horse, and something I have a heck of a time keeping under control with Hank.
The rest I will leave to the hoof gurus, because it confuses me so much my head spins
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 - 12:18 am:
Linda, you will need to give us better pics of his frog/sole (full flat pics, with no angles), but Diane E. is correct with all the flaring. It is noticeable in just about all of those pictures. Without good pics its also hard to say, but it appears that the breakover is too far forward, which creates all sorts of internal stressors. There aren't any good pictures of the frog, so really hard to saya if too much was trimmed or not. I also cant see the bars very well.
Again, without good pictures its hard to say for sure, but it also appears that the heels may be shoved too far forward, tho as long as his toe appears to be in the other photos, it is quite likely that his heel is too forward.
It may be the trim of the frog that has made him sore, or it may be that he's finally responding to just how poorly shaped his feet are.. Either way, it really looks like you need to look into getting a better trim done.
Mel
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 - 8:55 am:
I agree with Melissa, better pictures needed and there is more going on than a frog issue.
Do you own a rasp? If so, very lightly take it over the bottom of the hoof to clean it up, then take a picture with the foot held up, looking from the heels to the toe. Like your first picture only we won't see the sole so much but rather the heels, if they are level, the frog if it is above the walls, and we'll see the wall to the toe.
Not positive from the pictures, but his feet don't look level either, look at the hair line in the pictures taken from the front. I also would like to see the bars and where the heel point is.
There are so many things to consider when it comes to trimming that it's never as easy as saying the frog is too high, cut that off. You must ask why is the frog too high, (if that was why the farriers were trimming it) and once you trim on area, something else will usually pop up and you need to address that!
If you lay the rasp level across his heels, is it rocking on the frog? Is the frog down below the rasp? In the first picture, it almost looks like the frog is so far down it would never make contact with the ground.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 13, 2008 - 10:00 am:
Thanks for your responses. The frog is low, below the walls. Sorry, some of this makes my head spin too. I try to understand but it is complicated.
The new farrier started trimming five months ago. He told me he is still trying to get the hooves in shape gradually, so some of what you are seeing could be work in progress? I guess that is why I am posting, I want to know if the new guy is on the right track.
Cutter has always had trouble with flaring. The former farrier told me he had soft soles but from what I've read, that could very well be from improper trimming. He has been more sound with this new farrier than he has been in two years, so that tells me we are getting closer to the goal.
My husband is going out to the farm with me today to help take pictures. Not an easy thing to do by ones self, as you can see. Hopefully we can get something that will help you see what is happening.
Thanks for your help.
Linda
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 5:46 pm:
I hope these pictures will give you better information. If you roll your cursor over the picture, you will see which hoof you are looking at. 
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 5:50 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 5:52 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 5:53 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 5:55 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 5:56 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 5:58 pm:
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 6:00 pm:
I apologize for the mud.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 6:01 pm:
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 6:24 pm:
Now we need flat pictures showing the bottom of the hoof, (make sure the hooves are clean), as well as pictures of him standing, taken from the side... each leg, as well as a full body view (so we can see how it all puts together...).
From what I can see from these pictures, it appears that the heels are way too far forward, as well as uneven...the widest part of the hoof is about 1/3 from the heel -it should be about halfway...
I disagree with the flaring being something he is working on.. there is no exscuse for your horse to have that much flaring so soon after a trim. That is just shoddy worksmanship. It wont hurt your horse to take the flares off - it hurts him NOT to take the flares off. when the hoof is trimmed correctly every time, what you find is that over time the toe and heel come back, and that the amount of flaring seen at the end of a trim cycle decreases..
its hard to tell what the bars look like, but in one picture they almost appear to be so long that they are turning over a bit... but i could be wrong, as it could just be the angle of the picture..
i notice the central sulki is very deep... dont know if its from thrush, poor trimming or wet weather.. when i lived in the northeast - where it is also very wet, i dont remember any of my horses having central sulki that were this deep... cant see what the collateral sulki look like...
i dont see much, if any, of a mustant roll... the mustang roll eases the breakover, and with your horse's feet being as out of whack as they are, the easy breakover is very important... especially with all the flaring.. he's putting a lot of stresses on the insides of his hooves right now..
also, it helps if you label each hoof. I couldnt tell which hoof was which..
Mel
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 7:54 pm:
For the Central sulki I use Tomorrow's DRY COW it is the best stuff for thrush and getting deep into the central part..
Them are some saucer hoofs.. !~
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 9:07 pm:
Mel,
If you place your cursor over the photo, you will see a pop up that tells you what hoof it is.
I don't think the bars are turning over, I think it is hard to see in the picture. You raise good points and I will talk to the farrier about them. In particular, the flaring issue.
It is VERY wet around here right now and makes pictures difficult. If I take them inside, the lighting is poor and outside the mud is everywhere. We are supposed to get some sunshine this week so perhaps I can get some better shots.
Thanks,
Linda
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2008 - 11:56 pm:
Hi, I've been watching this thread because I'm interested in barefoot trimming but haven't quite gotten the nerve to take it on myself.
Just wanted to add a quick technical note. If you use Firefox as your browser rolling over the photos does not show which foot is which. You have to use IE for that function to work.
~Sara
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 12:44 am:
How soon after trimming are these pictures? If they are fairly soon after it would appear that not enough of the flare is being taken off. That amount of flare is doing serious harm to your horses hoof.
If you look at the hoof wall by the heel can you see the 'grain' of the hoof? These are called the tubules.
They should grow straight down from the coronet to the ground.
It appears at the heel they are growing forward somewhat, this indicates an underslung heel. this is also quite serious and needs to be addressed.
Different pictures could tell a different tale however.
If you have a piece of canvas you might try standing the horse on the canvas to get away from the mud.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 12:53 am:
Hi Linda, just saw the new photos. a
s Melissa pointed out the heels are not even, this means that even if the horse is walking on perfectly level ground his poor feet are crooked.
Look from the coronet band to the bottom of the hoof wall, any two corresponding points should be the same distance.
I agree the balance is out also.1/2 not 1/3.
To me it looks like there wasn't any filing done on the bottom of the walls, they still look rough from the nipper.
Without filing to level and smooth the edges the hoof is uneven, and without the roll these hooves will be prone to chips.
Did you have to pay for this?
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 1:01 am:
Hi Linda, just saw the new photos. a
s Melissa pointed out the heels are not even, this means that even if the horse is walking on perfectly level ground his poor feet are crooked.
Look from the coronet band to the bottom of the hoof wall, any two corresponding points should be the same distance.
I agree the balance is out also.1/2 not 1/3.
To me it looks like there wasn't any filing done on the bottom of the walls, they still look rough from the nipper.
Without filing to level and smooth the edges the hoof is uneven, and without the roll these hooves will be prone to chips.
I reread your original post. your horse may well be sore because of the quality of the trim.
When the flares aren't removed each step is a little like bending your fingernail forward, there is a bit of tearing with each step, this can lead to white line disease.
In the very first picture it looks like the center of the frog was trimmed out. If that is the case that is unusual to me.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 8:23 am:
Hello Lori,
Your horse does have a weak foot: contracted run under heels with moderate wall flare at the toe and quarters. Horses with this conformation often have long toes and thin soles. The toe length does not look that bad. The contracted heels suggest it is also possible that there are chronic heel pain issues. I would start with a thorough evaluation of the foot while lame to try and localize the pain a bit better and possibly radiographs to help with future foot balance. At that point plans to better balance the foot and protect the weak areas can be undertaken.
DrO
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 8:58 am:
Linda,
I see a lot of things I would question but "question" is the key word being I am at the point I can see somethings are not looking correct, and I have some idea what to do to correct them but can't necessarily get to that point!
Now that I've clarified my credentials, tee hee, I can give you some hints for good pictures.
I've taken 100's of my 4 horses hoofs, and one thing I do is take a magic marker & write on each hoof bottom: (Blue or Red shows up best) C at the sole/toe, for Cody, then for example LH, for left hind, or RF for right front. If you only have one horse of course you don't have to put an initial on the foot. Then I take photos in the same order every time. Whole horse from the sides, from the front with camera on the floor (and myself on the floor also) from the rear to get heel shots of all 4 feet.
Then I go around the horse, starting with the sole and each marked foot, and take various shots of each hoof. Overkill perhaps, but it's for my viewing, and I send about a dozen pictures of each horse to my hoof gal, in Alaska, who views them and critiques them for me.
For the very important shot from the heel to the toe, if you can rest is lower leg on something, let his foot hang, and center the shot from the middle of the heel, so we can see the heel, the bars, and the toe, that is best. The last photo you posted if very close to what I mean. If his foot is hanging, you may have to just tip the toe up to get the whole sole.
I think his walls are uneven, and I would take the quarters down as they appear above the sole causing the flaring. I don't think the back of the hoof wall looks right at all, it appears to be filed down at an angle to lower the heel? I am betting the bars can come down also, are they just above the sole? I agree he needs to have more of a mustang roll.
Study pictures on many of the natural/barefoot trimming sites, and read about flares, heel point, and bars. These are the most difficult areas to understand! Depending on your relationship with your farrier, you may want to print the pictures out and question what you are seeing. I say that not to cause trouble but rather because I know first hand that things can look good in person, but the camera shows something else! On the flip side, you can go crazy seeing things that are "off" in pictures and look at the hoof itself and not see it.
It's enough to make your head spin for sure when you start out studying this, but you will start having "aha" moments, and what didn't make sense 6 months ago, is 2nd nature now.
Grrr...that last picture, I want take after it with my rasp so bad!
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 11:10 am:
Thanks everyone.
Angie, I like your idea of studying the pictures and printing them to show the farrier.
OK, from what you are saying he is not doing a very good job. That stinks because of course, farriers are not growing on trees around here and I was hoping this guy was better than the one before. I need to talk to him before I just dump him though, so your insight is good and I will surely find out the answers to these questions.
My gut feeling is Cutter is better now than he used to be simply because he is more sound now than before. I checked him yesterday and he is sound again. That means it took 6 days from trimming to become sound. Not excessive, but if I understand all of you, that is still being caused by poor trimming methods and should be corrected.
DrO, your assessment seems to correspond with what is happening. Heel pain, which I assumed was the frog, has been an off and on problem for the past year. I watch for long toes because it is probably the only part of hoof technology that sunk in my head! I've studied your article showing the lines drawn as a guide and even in my photos, it seems the hoof looks correct in that regard except the lines at the heel are not parallel to the lines down the front of the hoof.
So now I need to understand more about contracted heels. I think Cutter has had this problem for a long time, even before this farrier. What corrects this? Or better question, what causes it?
I brought my camera and will again attempt better photos after work. Angie, the last photo was taken when Cutter had his hoof "at rest". I don't honestly know if I can get him to set it on something like you describe. I do think the poor photos are giving all of you different impressions than might really be happening, at least to some degree. I think I might try putting my camera on video mode and posting it on YouTube. Maybe a moving picture would be easier to interpret.
Thanks again.
Linda
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 8:12 pm:
My paint horse had heels that looked similar.
My current farrier took him from on and off lame, tender-footed and diagnosed with navicular disease (in and out of corrective shoes) and a lifetime of very rough gaits to sound, with power, speed and grace. First, he simply didn't do anything for what would have been an ordinary trim cycle and then gradually set about fixing him. The answer was simply proper balance laterally and medially. The underrun heels had to very gradually be taken down. After the first trim, the horse's relief was evident. Had you looked at his feet at the start you might have thought that the underrun and contracted heels need to be raised, but the opposite was true. The foot size of this large horse gradually increased, which was what was also needed to support him. This horse at 22 is at his best since I got him at 8 years of age. He had been messed up and harmed by "corrective" trimming and shoeing that is taught at most farrier schools. Every month with this farrier my boy improved and within less than a year his whole attitude had changed because he was no longer in constant pain.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, Sep 15, 2008 - 9:29 pm:
Linda, I still maintain he should not be sore from the trim at all--not for one day and certainly not for six! I don't think this farrier trimmed him short enough for that to be the cause of his soreness however. I agree with Dr. O, I don't think the toe length is excessive, but from these photos, the rest is really not a judgement that can accurately be made in my opinion.
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:47 pm:
I read the article on contracted heels so that answers the "how and what to do about it" questions. Yes Julie, I agree, six days is too much.
Here are some new photos. Finally a sunny day! Cutter is getting better about standing still for photos.
Left Front
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:51 pm:
Right Front
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:52 pm:
Front View
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:53 pm:
Left Rear
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:54 pm:
Right Rear
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:55 pm:
Rear View
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:56 pm:
Left Side View
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 1:58 pm:
Right Front Side View
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 2:18 pm:
Can you tell from looking at these pictures, why my horse was sore for six days after trimming?
The contracted heels have been present for longer than this farrier has been trimming. I mention something in my log about Cutter's right front giving out on him once while riding. That was last winter, and it could be the heels were painful though he was not lame. It just seemed like he came down on it hard and it hurt. That happened a few times during the winter.
OK, so the frogs are pretty easy to see in these photos. Do they seem trimmed short to you? The right rear was trimmed VERY short in February and it still looks very small to me. Angie, I did what you suggested and looked at articles and pictures on the internet on the natural hoof webpages. They talk about frogs in wetter regions being fuller than in dry areas. However, I also read that contracted heels get thrush easier so maybe he needs that much trimming. I still feel like the reason he gets sore is from trimming the frog. Pete Ramey says all he trims are the hanging pieces, under normal circumstances.
Thanks for all your great responses. I am learning more about hooves every day and I am grateful for your help.
Linda
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 5:26 pm:
 
Linda,
Much better pictures. Here's some examples of what is helpful so we can see if the heels are even, the quarters low enough, walls are even.
These from my very earliest attempts. The 2nd picture is better I think, and do you see that the quarters are high? This means the horse is walking on the walls there, that is weight bearing. That causes flaring. Your horse is standing under himself it appears, and one reason most likely is because the weight bearing part is not far enough back, the point of the heel is not far enough back. Or the bars are too long.
You can see the high walls on the 2nd picture, can you see the high part of the bars on the first picture?
'Nways, just to show you how taking a shot like these can show you many things. These are the toughest pictures to get, I didn't own a hoof jack then and it looks like the toe is resting on the floor.
BTW, one last little critique: When taking a side view picture, it helps to see the whole horse; shoulder and hip angles are important to see.
It took me months just to understand the "heel point" thing, so be patient with yourself and the farrier.
And you thought you just had frog questions, huh?
It's never that simple!
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 5:32 pm:
And PLEASE:
Remember I am just learning this myself, and my only help is I send pictures to a woman in Alaska who comments, and draws on my pictures sometimes. I have LOTS more to learn; even about taking good pictures. When I think I know something, I get some comment saying "Good, now do you see this? Now do this, because it changes that..."
Read, study, and ask your farrier questions next time s/he is out.
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Member:
rorien
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008 - 5:34 pm:
Hi Linda,
I've been doing my own trimming for about two years, so I don't think I'm near an expert on the subject, but I'll throw in my observations.
From the latest round of photos, I see very contracted frogs/heels and alot of flaring at the quarters (well, the whole wall except the very tip of the toe, that doesn't look too flared).
The bars are too long and are laying over.
The heels themselves are not even. On the right rear, the outside looks longer than the inside. On the left rear, the inside looks longer than the outside.
The frogs look like they may have been trimmed way down to the quick. When I'm trimming my horse's feet, The only frog I take off, is what is already coming off on it's own, and I pull that off with my hand, I never cut it with a knife. So, in answer to your direct question, yes, the frogs look like they have been trimmed too short.
So, any and all of those things could be causing your horse to be sore right now.
I'm sure you've done alot of studying on the horse's hoof. One -very- good resource is Gwenyth Santagate's website www.barefoottrim.com (she's even a member here, too). There is a wealth of information there, as well as a forum where you can post pictures, and get advice from some of it's members.
Nicole
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 17, 2008 - 10:25 am:
Thanks Angie! I do see the high walls in your picture and on Cutter's pictures. Very hard to understand why the farrier did not trim that down? I know he is trying to keep the horse from getting sore as that is why I switched farriers and he knows it. But if what you are saying is the flare is painful because it causes the horse to bear weight incorrectly, it is hard to figure out why he would do this. I most certainly will ask him!
The high bars on your first picture seem harder to understand but I think I see it. Nicole says Cutter's bars are too long and laying over. How does that condition affect the horse? (or for those of you on the "Edit" thread, "What effect does that have on the horse?"LOL  )
Nicole, thanks for the link. I will be studying it more today.
Linda
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 18, 2008 - 10:01 am:
I am becoming more educated on hooves every day. For those of you that may be following this thread silently because you have the same problem, here is a link to a good webpage that really explains what is happening in a way that is easy to understand.
Click on https://www.barefoothorse.com/ Then click "Hoof Shape". The whole webpage is excellent information.
I have now developed a better idea of where I need to go with Cutter's hooves. More importantly, I see where we are headed if I don't do something! I printed a ton of information, along with your comments, and will give them to the farrier this weekend. If he can't trim the way I want, then I will find someone that can.
I have toyed with the idea of learning to rasp and do minor adjusting myself. Not too sure I want to go that route just yet, but keeping it as a possibility. I hate the idea of learning on a horse that is having problems already but if it will help him, then I would consider it.
Anyway, thanks to all of you for your insight. Hopefully I can update this post in the future and show progress toward correcting Cutter's problems.
Linda
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 18, 2008 - 10:48 am:
Linda,
Take it slow, only do what you are comfortable with. Taking the rasp to level those walls could be your first job. If you are having a "professional" do his hooves, and they are not level, what does that tell you about how easy this is to do? I've gained alot of respect for farriers after doing my own horses, it's hard work, physically and mentally, lol!
I have piles of print outs, and I still read and reread my notes, books, and visit websites. (I think I am a slow learner, )
Something that may help, depending on what happens with your present farrier; see if you can find a retired farrier. Someone who may be interested in just talking hooves with you over coffee. (Out in the barn of course) I had a guy come over in the beginning, he looked at all 4 horses, made some tweaks, pointed out some things, all for $50 and a few cups of coffee. He wasn't a barefoot trimmer, in fact his speciality used to be corrective shoeing. But he still had a wealth of information.
Enjoy the journey! Keep us posted. Cutter will benefit from your new knowledge!
BTW, Cutter would benefit from having tweaking done more often than a farrier's schedule. If you can learn to use a rasp & knife, it will only speed things up.
I haven't ruined any of my 4 horses in 18+ months, no blood except mine! No head bobbing lameness, though I did make Cody sore when I took his heels down too low in the hinds. And I am not 100% sure that I caused that, he had taken a misstep in the pasture too.
Best of Luck to You, and Cutter!
Angie
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 18, 2008 - 2:19 pm:
I'm wiped out with a cold from HE** right now, so I was reading on various hoof trimming sites and found this link that I thought was interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej1MNNz2mgI
From Pete Rameys site, www.hoofrehab.com
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 19, 2008 - 9:03 am:
Hello Linda,
Which foot was he lame in? The right rear appears to have had corium (sensitive tissue) exposed recently right at the heel as there is a very thin layer of horn covering the frog there.
DrO
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Member:
lhenning
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Posted on Friday, Sep 19, 2008 - 9:46 am:
Yes, the right rear has given him the most problems. The frog was trimmed very short in February and was healing until the farrier trimmed it again two weeks ago.
Linda
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Sep 20, 2008 - 10:28 am:
What I don't know is whether this is a farrier mistake or the farrier doing a good job with a bad situation. If the frog was undermined at this point removing the overlying flap would be the correct action.
DrO
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