This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Feed Intake Examples in Horses by Breed and Discipline »
  Discussion on New to Quarter horses.
Author Message
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 12:33 pm:

It seems I will keep bothering all of you for advice even 'deported' to Ramona.
Two Quarter horse mares have landed in my lap. The neighbour bought them doesn't know what to do with them so offered them to me to ride.
I would like to they are broke and seem way calmer then my usual 'menagerie' was and the trails start immediately around the house so I think me taking them on a trail ride would be without to much risk for the rest of the US population.
They are 2,5 year old and already trained for half a year is this normal?
They are now skinny, so I will order dewormer.
They eat what seems to me good quality hay free choice and have water. Nothing else but dust.
My plan: buy a mineralsalt lick, and some concentrate. Start feeding them slowly and give them a holiday from work until I return half december.
Any advice on what concentrate? First some Alfalfapellets or [I would prefer that on my own horses] a bit of complete?
Anything wrong with the plan and have I forgotten/overlooked something?
And they live in a fairsized paddock about the size of a riding arena with shelter but it isn't mucked out! Is that normal or acceptable?
European confusion so please help out.
Jos
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 1:09 pm:

Arrrg, Jos...sounds like the owner of these 2 horses should never bought them in the first place. Horse owners like this drive me crazy, but I'll leave that particular soapbox for another day...

First a disclaimer: I've never owned a QH, but they are the predominant breed around here and have been at all barns I've boarded my mare at. That said:

If they have been kindly treated, it is likely that you will enjoy these 2 horses. QHs in general - I know there are exceptions- have very even, sensible temperaments. It's not unusual for them to be broke to saddle by 2 1/2.

As to feed, follow a quality feeding program, such as here on HA, as you would for any other horse. They seem to be relatively easy keepers when not in work, so watch for them getting too heavy once you've got them on adaquate nutrition.

As to mucking out the paddock...I personally prefer to have my horse's living space cleaned out, but I do see many barns that never pick out the paddocks or drag them or otherwise clean things up. Doesn't seem like optimal living standards to me. Certainly don't want the horses living ankle deep in poop...not good for their feet, will draw flies and otherwise make things unpleasant.

Good luck with your new projects! QHs are really a wonderful breed. After some of your "challenges", I think you will really enjoy these two.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 2:59 pm:

Hi jos:0
I had QH's pretty much my whole life and they did pretty good on a good quality grass hay & mineral salt lick. Ones I used to barrel race with (3 day a week riding and weekend showing)got alfalfa and some concentrate. But the ones used for basic trail riding would do excellent as long as fed a good quality free choice hay.
So, Im inclined to think they are wormy. Although, The growing one could probably use some alfalfa hay.
Sounds like the owners need to be shown how to care for their horses and I cant think of a better person than you:-) You will soon have them healthy and comfy in a clean corral. With handfuls of goodies every now and then:-)
Ps. I think your going to like feeding the Western US hay, as it really is the best stuff, in my experience. All the TB farms here buy it by the semi-truckload and have it shipped out here for big $$.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 3:03 pm:

Thanks Fran, sounds sensible advice.
I more or less get drawn in adventures like this because the owners make a mess of it.
This time I promised myself I would only get involved if I got the living conditions of the horses as I see fit for a horse.
Doing half work with an owner all the time contradicting I can do without. That being said these have just come back from the 'trainer' who sold them in the first place[or bought them] for the owner. They seem friendly and tired. The black one with the least condition was called 'a mule' by the professional training the poor thing[read between the lines what I think] but to me she just looks a bit fed up with people.
So I think I will try to negotiate -adequate food worming and farrier and - cleaning of paddock and not by me.
If not I'd better stay out of this I guess
Wish horses didn't always look so helpless!!!
Jos
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 3:08 pm:

Leslie Thanks, these are really skinny to say the least so if they should do well on good hay something is wrong.
I am with you deworming but I also think 5 months training[however light ] for a horse that counts 2,5 years at this moment is well ridiculous.
They seem to my uneducated eye of good conformation and still growing. So I guess a little bit of extra goodies will be OK [don't want to end up with Grasse/Hank clones immediately]
Jos
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 3:34 pm:

Jos,

As mentioned above it is common to start QH's in the spring of their 2 year old year. My personal preference is to wait till they are more mature, but honestly I have known probably a hundred or so that were started riding regularly at that age and didn't have soundness issues because of it. Go figure...

I would think they would enjoy light trail work (much more than loping circles in an arena!) and as mentioned above they tend to have very sound temperaments and are pretty easy going, depending on the breeding. (Stock/cow-bred being more mellow than race-bred).

One QH breeder I knew had the following advice: when working with them keep in mind that they are bred to stand around most of the time waiting for a cow to chase (short bursts of energy and long periods of semi-dozing). She would occasionally trail ride along with my arab and I but said it made her horses sour to spend 4 hours trotting through the hills .. when my arab was just getting warmed up! :-)

One more thing: when I lived in California, oat hay was mostly what was available. I have never seen it fed anywhere else. Just wondering if this is still the case?
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 3:54 pm:

Well this is most definitely no oat hay but [according to my European eyes] 'normal'grasshay
I did however here people talk about the oathay[I thought it was straw?] as it seems to be cheaper and available.
With two horses already in not to good condition however I think thats not the way to take.
Think I can give them some straight oats to get them up to arab temperament?
Now don't shoot me SaraM.!
Jos
Member:
sdms

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 4:22 pm:

Hi Jos! Well, you and I have already talked so you know my opinion on Quarter Horses.

I'm in agreement with the other opinions here that most QHs, especially if they're foundation bred and don't have TB, are easy keepers. I know a lot of people that just feed grass hay and a mineral block. I don't have any the age you're talking about right now but I feed grass hay and pelleted feed. They also have a salt/trace mineral block at their disposal. I think as long as your feeding program is nutritionally balanced and the horses are doing well on it you'll be in good shape.

I also know quite a few people that start their horses at 2 with no problems. I prefer to start mine late in their two year old year and put 20 or 30 rides on them then lay them off until the spring of their 3 yr old year. But that's just my preference.

As for the living conditions....hmmmm. I guess it takes all kinds. My horses live in 48 x 48 corrals but I clean them twice a day so they're not standing in muck and to help with fly control. I also know people that don't clean at all then go in every few months with a tractor and scrape it to the ground. I don't agree with it but it works for them. That's one more reason to get them on a good worming program when you start working with them.

One other thing you might think about which may or may not be the case. You mentioned that these horses just came back from the trainer. I've known "trainers" over the years that would cut back on feed to keep the horses skinny for training purposes. Although they didn't tell the owners this their theory was that a hungry horse with no energy was a lot easier to train than a fat and happy horse. Again...I do not agree with this method. Quarter Horses tend to have very even temperaments but just be aware that as they gain weight you might notice a personality change that includes more energy.

Best of luck with your new projects. We're looking forward to the stories you'll have to tell in the coming months!

~Sara
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 4:29 pm:

A nice big sack of straight oats would perk them right up I bet!! Lace it with molasses and you'll have yourself some rocket fuel!

I was never that comfortable feeding the oat hay .. just looked like it couldn't have any nutritional value at all. My gelding did get hot on it too, it did include actual oat seedheads. Most of the people I knew who fed it fed alfalfa along with it.

I was so happy to see nice green grass hay when we moved to the northwest, and (don't laugh) watch my horses manure change from straw colored and coarse to nice smooth dark green/black. Yep, I admit it, I get excited about good-looking poo!!
Member:
sdms

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 4:30 pm:

See, that's what happens when I start writing a post and the phone rings. I miss a post aimed at me!

Not sure what you mean by arab temperament. I saw Sara W's arabs and they were pretty mellow. If you're looking for something with spunk you're welcome to come ride my 8 year old. He's a puppy dog on the ground but get in the saddle and you never know which of his multiple personalities you're going to get!

So, that being said, QHs are still horses and you might actually be in luck and get one that has a wild hare up his rear! If you're really lucky, since you've got two, one will be a challenge for the days that you need that and the other will be a bump on a log for the days you don't.

~Sara
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 5:07 pm:

I always fed oat hay in Holland to the fatties[well ex changed half of their 'normal' hay for it] they loved it but I usually struggle with weight[theirs and mine]
Thanks Sara I will come groom for you but I think I will leave it at that! All that hopping around what you call cows[I still think they were calves!] is probably to dangerous for my French ridingabilities.
These two look fine conformationwise and seem to be bred for reining[?] nice little heads to and very practical 'pony'height[sorry your hands and feet are still to much for me] so we will see.
I am already convinced I will need to speak to the owner first and change condition and lifestyle by deworming and cleaning out paddocks if not I will be fighting with him in no time and that won't help the horses.
And you all set my mind at rest about the age for training, I was really startled as mine often get backed at four instead of two.
Jos
Member:
sdms

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 5:28 pm:

Jos, if it all works out and you DO start working with these horses I'd be interested to know what their breeding is. That might also tell you what their temperaments might be.

~Sara
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 5:30 pm:

Will ask for pedigrees as soon as he agrees about 'upgrading' their circumstances!
Jos
Member:
stevens

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2008 - 6:05 pm:

Sorry in advance Jos but I can't resist:

Are these horses skinny compared to the picture in your profile or skinny as in you can see their ribs and hips protruding?

If they have free choice access to quality hay and water and aren't in work they really shouldn't need anything else. And it's far better for them to be lean than fat.

Lots of quarter horses are actually shown under saddle as 2 year olds and while many decry that practice, as was pointed out above, the horses seem to survive just fine. My last quarter horse was doing flying lead changes at 5; talk about freaking out the dressage crowd.

You might want to consider carefully how you approach the owner regarding any changes. After all you just met, he probably thinks he's doing you a favor and might not appreciate being told he's doing things all wrong.

Now if you're volunteering to clean the paddock, probably won't be a problem. If you're going to suggest that he clean it, or pay someone to clean it, I suspect you will quickly be back on foot.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 6:59 am:

Jos I have owned QH through the years and all of mine were on the thin side when 2-4 yrs. After that they seemed to fill out right before my eyes and can tend to get Hank like (he has qh in him).

I wouldn't be in a hurry to fatten them up, just make sure their diet is balanced and they are getting the proper vit/min. for young ones.

I too had my qh's "broke out" in their 2yo year. no ill effects at all.

I think you would enjoy the QH's personality. A horse is a horse, but they do tend to be a little more "mellow" than some breeds.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 9:27 am:

Ha Chris!! They show bones through winterfur that doesn't feel to soft and fluffy!
I fed the owner a meal with some wine yesterday evening[learned something about diplomacy in France]
And we agreed on the following: I need to go back to France sunday and hope to return a few weeks later[with dog!] in the meantime as he has free acces to carrots he starts giving them additional carrots[and yes I explained he had to start with one lbs a horse a day and could in a few weeks time up it] free choice of the hay for now a mineral salt lick is now provided and I order dewormers and feed them as I see fit.
The paddock will be cleaned once a week[I will believe that when I see it]
IMO as you all put my mind at rest about the age related training I think they should be ready for some light lungeing and a light trail ride when I return.
Anyone sees any flaws in this plan?
Jos
PS It goes without saying that you will find my wailing messages about riding quarterhorses and further adventures I think at the end of december... I do plan on taking my own saddle as to at the very least know how to tie it on a horse
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 9:52 am:

Jos, are these two horses being offered to you as ownership Free? Or are you just going to exercise and condition them for the owner Free? If so what expenses are coming out of your pocket if the owner is keeping ownership other then your time.. .. ?

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 10:21 am:

Hi Jos,

Have a nice trip to France!

I also live in a land of Quarter Horses, but we have a lot of cutting and barrel bred horses here that can sometimes be hotter than the norm, though it isn't the "horned hot" that you are tired of dealing with. It's more of a reactiveness and a sprinting ability.

When I hear "came home from the trainer skinny" I tend to think about ulcers brought on by the sudden change in environment, management,and feeding. If so, free choice grass with some alfalfa mixed in may be their best non-medical choice. Whatever you suggest, make sure the changes are gradual. The owner will be happy to have your free labor and consulting until one of the horses colics, and then he will blame you.

I suppose they may gain weight on carrots. I gain weight on chocolate, but my doctor wouldn't care for the plan, even if I were underweight.

I use dry lot paddocks for most of my horses, and clean them every day. I hate the "stomp and blow away" plan.

Post photos!
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 1:11 pm:

Pedigrees for QH lovers!
IA Deuces Hunny Pep [2006]
Maggies Magic Girl[2006]
Look at www.allbreedpedigree.com and it will give full pedigrees. I am curious what the experts say.
No money of mine is involved Ann,just time.
After reading the posts Elizabeth I thought I would be careful and just deworm and as a snack a few extra carrots and see what happens.
I do NOT want another Grasse on my hands!!!
Jos
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 1:49 pm:

Interesting Jos,
Magic is bred for speed, Barrel racing, IMHO ...and the honey pep's top half was bred for color...smokey black.
Thanks for posting Jos
Leslie
Member:
stek

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 1:50 pm:

Very neat Jos, thanks for posting. I see some nice foundation bloodlines there, mostly cutting/working cow type, some reining, some racing. Aside from the obvious Leo/King Peppy lines (all with famous performance/breeding careers) I have worked with some really nice horses from the lesser known Poco Bueno line. These should be nice little mares to work with, I would guess they will be fairly cowy.

Not sure if you have ever worked with a cow horse but the instincts bred in them to chase/work cows are amazing.

I second the request for photos when you have time!
Member:
stek

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 2:00 pm:

Oops, posted before I added comments on Magic Girl, who is actually an appendix quarter horse (QH/TB cross). I see lots of race breeding in her on both sides, especially the bottom side with Go Man Go, Proud Clarion, Jet lines on her bottom side and some race and halter (Blondy's Dude) on her top side .. an interesting cross.

I would be curious to see which 'type' won out in her confirmation, the race breds are of course much lighter and the halter horses tend to be heavy bodied with small heads and feet.

Just from bloodlines I would guess Hunny Pep will be the more mellow, level headed one, and Magic Girl will run be a bit hotter.

Please keep us posted!
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 2:08 pm:

forgot to add that honey's bottom half is Leo bred and he was known for speed as well:-)... It looks like they wanted a smokey black speedster

But Magic has a lot of Tb in her. I had quite a few barrel horses that went back to Go Man Go and Top Deck.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 3:14 pm:

The Black one was called 'mulish' I rather like her, boney longer lines and a bit more distant to a stranger.
I guess most people would call the bay prettier, she resembles Akacja my little arab more very friendly easygoing little bay nice head.
I'm so used to the showjumpers I just expect more atletic abilities in a bit longer boney type but ofcourse that can be a total misunderstanding in an other race
Thanks for the info. I am very interested in what to expect and then find out what it means.
Think the both of them are going to be lunged and accustomed to groundpoles and a bit of dressage that will get them confused!
Jos
PS Another neighbour has 1200 emus who from time to time escape would they be any good in chasing them back
PS Oh and pics will have to wait until I've got help with the resident camera, much to complicated for me
Member:
maggienm

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 3:59 pm:

Just curious why so many carrots?

I agree with Elizabeth you will be an angel in disguise until anything unfortunate happens then you will likely come from down under.

I wonder if 'skinny from the trainers' is more of an ideal working weight that many owners aren't used to? No personal experience just wondering?

May you have a safe and uneventful return trip Jos. Looking forward to more of your adventures.
Member:
canter

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 - 7:08 pm:

Jos, don't let them fool you...QHs are very athletic...when you have a chance, search for video of some barrel racers, pole benders or reiners...they are quite amazing. And I've seen some talented lower level dressage horses in the breed as well.

Although they are not bred to be top jumpers or Grand Prix dressage horses, they are very, very versatile and most of those I have worked around or cared for seem very willing to adapt to just about anything their owners ask of them.

Safe travels & have fun!
Member:
sdms

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 9:35 am:

Jos, I don't think there's anything wrong with either of those horse's pedigrees. It's very interesting to me that this man has two so differently bred horses. As was mentioned before Hunny is bred more for cattle while Magic is bred more for speed. Although Hunny does have a couple of speedsters thrown in there Magic does have some cattle bred horses thrown in. They both make for a nice combination.

A little farther back Hunny has both King and Three Bars in her pedigree. The King/Three Bars combination (obviously not together!) has been one of the most successful combos for performance ever. And Magic has Blondy's Dude, an outstanding sire and AQHA Hall of Famer, 3 generations back.

I can't wait to see pictures and hear how it goes. Hurry and get back to France so you can get back over here and ride!

~Sara
Member:
lilo

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 9:40 am:

Jos - that did not take very long, did it? You getting into horses at the new home!

Very good posts and advice above. Have a safe trip.

Lilo
Member:
erika

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 10:40 am:

Jos, like Fran says, you may be surprised at the athleticism of these horses. They were bred for performance, and appendix's especially are often seen in the jumpers and hunters. They are some of the most athletic horses I've ever known.

They may fool you because they don't look like big warmbloods. But they will probably be quick and "handy".

Unfortunately everyone is correct in that some awful trainers think starving a horse makes it easier to work with. Too bad. But I wouldn't start with too high powered feed either. They may bulk up considerably by the time you get back. Too much grain could be a bad recipe for the temperament.

That said, there's a reason QH's are so popular here. They do tend to be mellow and sensible. With exceptions, of course. But you will probably be pleasantly surprised that you won't have to watch your back with these horses like you did your old gang!
Good luck, looking forward to pictures!
ERika
Member:
sdms

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 11:18 am:

Jos, I forgot to mention earlier, you can definitely chase emus on a QH and, if you do, you are required to have someone video tape it for us! You notice I say "chase" and not "herd" because I'm not sure how well those critters stick together.

I have to admit, if my horses (especially my 8 year old I mentioned earlier) saw 1200 emus or less (by less I mean 1) coming their way I'd have to track them down in Kansas.

~Sara
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 12:02 pm:

New Member:
kalllie

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 12:13 pm:

ok...WITH ALL THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT QH..I HAVE TO JUMP IN HER TOO. I have a 8 yr. old and she has been wonderful and gives my daughter everything she asks. I too agree that they can do just about anything that they want to do. My daughter shows H/J and in her high school - competes with the jumpers. This QH is smaller than the warmbloods she competes against,,,but boy does she shine--and win. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR ALL YOU..I have the opposite problem with her weight. She almost looks to be pregnant. We have cut back all extra grain, just giving her her necessary supplements. She gets 1 flake am, & 1 pm of 3Way - we are in So. Calif. She is exercised 4 times a week. Any thoughts would be app.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 12:39 pm:

What kind of hay are you feeding her? Maybe a stemmier grass hay, with a good vit/ min supplement. I like to free-choice my fatty a very stemmy hay. She does better mentally with something to munch on constantly. And she keeps a nice condition.
Member:
stek

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 2:55 pm:

Sharon, glad your daughter has such a wonderful mount to enjoy. As noted above, quarter horses are notoriously easy keepers and can be hard to keep trim.

From what you describe I wonder if your mare has more of a 'hay belly' or is generally fat (cresty neck, can't feel ribs, thick cushions of fat on withers, at girth, on either sides of tailhead)? A photo would be helpful if you can provide one.

Also if you could give a more detailed description of her diet (pounds of hay and concentrate per day and what types) that would help in determining what, if anything, needs to be changed.

IF this is just a hay belly, not that I recommend it, but it is common for horses in competition to have their forage decreased and concentrate increased to trim their bellies. This can result in behavior issues and a myriad of health problems. I MUCH PREFER to focus on working the horse to strengthen the muscles which carry/suspend the abdomen. I am a big fan of working long and low and doing lots of transitions for this.
Member:
paardex

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 9:28 pm:

Sara you know I dislike cameras come over yourself if you need a laugh.
I am so happy to say the owner cleaned out the paddock bought hay oats alfalfa dewormer mineral salt lick and was trying to vaccinate them [I was just in time mentioning he needed to check if he didn't hit a vein] yesterday. So now my biggest concern is him not going overboard and feeding them to death.
Until now they seem VERY happy with the free choice hay and three times daily little tidbits on the side.
More news[and I hope nothing dramatic] when I return from France.
Thanks again for all the info.
Jos
PS I will bring my English saddle!
Member:
paardex

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 9:30 pm:

PPS Are all US citizens so easy to handle? Just a little wine and some dinner and everything is arranged?
Jos
Member:
erika

Posted on Friday, Nov 14, 2008 - 9:55 pm:

Yes, Jos, that's the key.
Member:
amara

Posted on Saturday, Nov 15, 2008 - 8:41 am:

*LOL*
a little dinner and wine huh?
i'll remember that next time i need to serve a felony warrant!
*LOL*
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC