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  Discussion on Research Summary: Effects on Mineral Content of Forages
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Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 6:06 am:

Normally we don't think of hay maturity effecting mineral content significantly but this study found very mature forages were low in calcium and magnesium. Such forages are also sure to be low in protein, reinforcing the idea that the marrage of legumes with low to moderate quality grass forages is often a great idea.
DrO

J Anim Physiol Anim Nutr (Berl). 2008 Dec;92(6):712-7.
Mineral content of hay harvested in Bavarian and Swiss horse farms. Predictive value of cutting time, number of cut, botanical composition, origin and fertilization.

Kienzle E, Mollmann F, Nater S, Wanner M, Wichert B.

Institute of Animal Physiology, Physiologic Chemistry and Animal Nutrition, Ludwig-Maximilians-University, Munich, Germany.

Hay samples from 29 horse farms in Southern Upper Bavaria and 31 horse farms in Switzerland were taken and analysed for minerals such as calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and potassium. The content of herbs and legumes in the hay was determined and the Weende analysis was performed. Comparison between Bavaria and Switzerland resulted in comparable calcium contents of approximately 4 g Ca/kg dry matter (DM) in grass hay. Hay with more than 10% of herbs and legumes found only in Switzerland showed higher Ca contents of >7 g Ca/kg DM in hay. The mineral contents of phosphorus and potassium were lower in hay from Switzerland (P: 1.8 +/- 0.7 g/kg DM, K: 15.4 +/- 5.1 g/kg DM) than from Bavaria (P: 3.8 +/- 0.6 g/kg DM, K: 20.0 +/- 6.0 DM), whereas the magnesium content of the hay showed no difference between the regions ( approximately 1.5 g Mg/kg DM). Very late first grass hay cuts showed low magnesium and calcium (<4 g/kg DM) contents. Further minerals in the hay for horses differed from those in dairy cattle in the same region. Fertilization showed only small effects on the mineral contents of the hay produced for horses. Therefore, in calculation of ration and production of supplements for horses, these differences should be taken into account.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 7:34 am:

Dr.O. other than the protein, would a good vitamin/min supplement be enough to make up for the lack of them? I feed late cut 1st crop grass hay (fatties) and have always been a bit concerned about this.

I use alfalfa pellets for the protein, but not a big amount.

Thanks
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 8:43 am:

DrO,

I have the same concern Diane has. And I find it confusing that horses need a good quality grass hay, mineral block, and fresh water, yet on the flip side of the coin I hear about the low protein being a problem. It seems like there is a contradiction there, and I'd like to get it straight in my head once and for all.

Horses grazing in the wild, who ate green grass in the summer, and dry grass in the winter, did they have protein deficiecies then? I doubt they were finding spots of alfalfa under the snow!

I've got late cut 1st crop summer grass hay also, a mineral block, and a Selenium/E supplement. Based on another post Diane had, I am going to switch to the MannaPro multi vit/mineral supplement. So the vit/min should be taken care of(?) but do idle adult horses need the extra protein?

I thank you also!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 9:23 am:

O.K., just reviewed the nutrition guidelines, and it seems the key words are "GOOD QUALITY" hay/forage.

Do I understand this then, it's not about "extra protein" but sufficient protein, which may not be what is provided if the hay quality is not the best.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2008 - 5:14 pm:

Angie, Since I know the obese horse section like the back of my hand I was pretty sure there was something in there about protein and there was!

Here's the section about it
When horses are completely off pasture and just fed stemmy hays, protein and vitamins should be supplemented. 3 ozs of a very high protein supplement, 30 to 40% protein, should be fed. Calf manna ® or Manna Pro® would be a good choice for the protein supplement and usually available at most feed stores. To this you should add a good quality vitamin...more. Moistening the pellets will help get the vitamins to stick. In general stemmy hays are not mineral deficient and so the recommended mineral salt block for your area should be fine to meet these needs

I did try the calf manna, but weight started piling on for some reason, so I switched to the alfalfa pellets which are 16% protein....now here comes the stupid question. Just what does that mean in terms of feeding???? If you have something that is say 20% protein how do you know how much to feed????? A pound....5lbs. I don't quite get it.

OH I see it right in that paragraph...so 3 oz of 30-40% protein supplement would suffice I guess.

So if given alfalfa pellets at 16% I guess 6 oz would do it? Doesn't seem like much, but that is about what my horses get. Interesting.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Nov 20, 2008 - 8:14 am:

Thanks Diane,

I always find trying to figure out correct amounts for getting the doseages right very confusing. I don't remember seeing the paragraph you quoted, but then I was skimming, and thought I remembered it correctly to begin with. (I should know better than to rely on my memory!)

Now, the MannaPro Show-Glo is 12% protien. But one oz of that surely isn't doing much for the protein need.

My next question, if you don't have alfalfa hay, what is the most cost effective(affective?) way of upping the protein?

And based on the above calculations, buying say a 16% protein feed, I'd have to feed 6 oz to get the correct amount? (Told you I was confused!)

If I feed SafeChoice at 12 oz a feeding, and it's 14%, I am actually doing o.k. on the protein being the hay obviously has some?

O.K....

DrO...

Am I making it too complicated? ;-(
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 20, 2008 - 8:28 am:

Go back to the Overview article and follow the Golden Rule Angie, it is all you have to do to feed horses properly. If good quality forage is not available there is a simple table to follow to improve the quality. You should note that how you feed your horses will not be the same as how DianeE feeds her horses because your horses will not tell you the same thing that Diane's horses tell her.
DrO
Member:
imogen

Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2008 - 3:54 am:

The flipside is it's harder to make the hay from the weather point of view when it has clover/herbs in it, I think... but of course clover saves money on nitrate fertiliser.

Imogen
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