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Discussion on More questions about arena footing
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 11:00 am:
Fran, in an earlier post you said you used recycled rubber and sand mixed together. Do you have to water with the rubber? If so, how often? How is the dust? Will this mix freeze? How deep do you have your footing?
Thanks for taking the time to answer. I'm still confused about the best footing for our arena. I think we finally got the base done right and now need to get the footing in there so we can use the darn thing!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 11:13 am:
Those of you who have clay base for your arena, how did you know you had it compacted hard/dense enough? Have you had problems with the clay working up into your footing?
Someone, Elizabeth maybe?, said they used mineral oil and liked it. What do you have to do for maintenance? Do you just have it on washed sand,or do you have a sand/fabric mix? What kind of base do you have? I really like the idea of mineral oil, but am concerned that if the base isn't packed hard enough, it will work up into the base and cause a problem. Thanks.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 1:01 pm:
Hi Sara,
The sand/rubber mix does occasionally get dusty, but no more so than other footing I've ridden on. How often it needs to be treated depends on weather conditions & frequency of use. In the warmer months, it's sprinkled down with a hose, maybe once every few weeks, depending on humidity. Right before the cold weather sets in, the barn owners treat with that chemical (can't remember the name of it...calcium chloride??) and that usually lasts pretty much the whole winter with no watering neccessary. The footing has never frozen and it gets pretty darn cold here in Michigan.
When I first started boarding there, the arena was quite new and I thought the footing was a bit deep, particularly in the corners. Over time, it has evened out quite nicely. Right now, when raked out it comes about 1/2 way to 3/4 of the way up a horses hoof.
This footing was spread over a clay base and the only time I've seen the base come up into the footing was when someone left a sprinkler on it too long and we got a soft spot. I removed the footing mix, tamped down the soft spot and put cones up around it to give it a chance to re-set. Now, I am unable to find that spot.
I think my biggest complaint with it - and it's really not a big deal- is that after a few laps around, a track forms where the sand/rubber gets kicked into the middle and towards the outside edge against the wall. Easy enough to fix - I just rake it out. It does seem to do this more noticeably than in just sand arenas I've ridden in. Guess I need to do more work off the rail! It could also be a factor of it's a smaller arena than what yours look like from the pix you posted.
Hope that helps.
Fran
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 3:36 pm:
Sara, as you know my arena is an outdoor, but the base is clay. I deemed it hard enough when Hank didn't sink in at all. Mother nature helped me tho with rain and then parching hot summer sun.
We put about 3 in of limestone on top and the clay has never come through...except on one side where hubby disced it to deep. Honestly the limestone on top of the clay would make a perfect base...that stuff gets hard as cement (ask my ribs) we have to disc it every once in awhile to keep it soft...the harrow won't even go through it....SO if I had an indoor arena AND had the money to do it right...I would go with compacted clay/limestone on top compacted/ for the base.
And the stuff someone posted on the stallskin website for footing would interest me! I think it was called cedar rest. I'll go look!
https://stallskins.com/cedarest.html
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 3:39 pm:
OOPs sorry the cedar rest is bedding LA LA land again
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 5:00 pm:
Fran, is the arena you use indoor or out? I wonder if that would make a difference on how much you water.
Diane did you mix the limestone in with the clay, and then when that hardened, put limestone alone as a top layer? How is the dust factor with the limestone?
Also, Diane, you aren't too far off with the stallskins stuff; some sites advise putting landscape fabric between the base and sub-base. I guess it's too late for that, as I think the sub-base is the original ground you start out with. At any rate, we're not building an Olympic venue here so do want to be reasonable, but I'd really like to do what I can within reason to make the footing as dust free as possible and easy care.
Thank you both. I've got to decide by this weekend. I should have done so before this, but have been busy buying bath room faucets, tile, etc. and not concentrating on the arean. Back to what is REALLy important now!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 6:48 pm:
No the limestone is on top of the clay, which would be great for a sub base....The dust isn't bad with the limestone as my footing, but it rains quite a bit here...inside I think it would be like sand. As a sub base I don't think it would be dusty,
The stall skin link I put up is bedding...not the stall skins...I read it a little more and it sounds like people use it for arena too.. It SOUNDS wonderful....did you check out the link?
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 7:09 pm:
Sara, the one I describe above is indoor. I'm sure whether or not the arena is in or out does make a difference. One baking in the hot summer sun will likely dry out & get dustier that one shaded by a ceiling and walls. I think another factor is use. You're building this for yourself, correct? No boarders? Seems to me with fewer horses working, it'll likely stay dust free longer and need less maintanance (unless you're lucky enough to have 6 or 8 horses to ride each and every day!)
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 8:43 pm:
Fran, it is for my private use, but I know my friends will be using it also. And, I have 7 horses to work of my own. (Not counting Libby and my two stallions.) But....things are "looking up;" I used to have 24 of my own!
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 10:57 am:
Well then, Sara...I'm REALLY jealous now...you're own private indoor AND enough horses to ride to keep you busy for the entire day! I'd like to trade places with you...
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 11:10 am:
FRan C be careful of what you wish for..!
I have 4 horses that need to be worked, one is only a 2 year old, but he has to be handled and exposed.. I am a hem middle age and trying to take care of the property / home AND horses.. Lets just say that I can barely ride three and most days I ride two.. There is JUST NOT ENOUGH hours in a day or energy for it all...BUT 20+ years ago I would have been in heaven with my projects and would gladly attack them all and get them all done with energy left to stay up after 8:30!!!!
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 11:25 am:
Ann, you took the words right out of my mouth! One of mine is AJ, who was badly injured a year or so ago and is just not getting his head back on straight. We were just getting him under saddle when he got injured and it has taken us all this time to get him back to where he was before the accident. I've hired a college girl to help me out; I'd never get all of them exercised in one day. Even with her help, they each get worked about every 2-3 days. There's stalls and pens to clean, grooming, blankets, plus all the other upkeep. I do love it, but wish all I had to do is ride!! Of course, at my age, if I rode 7 in one day you'd have to roll me back to the house in the wheelbarrow at the end of the day!
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 11:42 am:
Of course, at my age, if I rode 7 in one day you'd have to roll me back to the house in the wheelbarrow at the end of the day!
who says my husband does not do that all ready? From the dinner table to the couch for a little TV, next thing I know he is tapping me on the shoulder , ''Honey, time to go to the real bed''
Don't get me wrong, I love it all, BUT there is just so much more to do around here then to just ride,, husband still works a 60 hour week,BLESS his soul, thus the weed whacking / leaf blowing / mowing / mucking / arena grading / HOUSE CLEANING / meals cooked / shopping .. ALL gets put on my shoulders .. On some days riding is a after thought .. sad but very true..
When I boarded,, I rode so much more,, but then again all I had to do at that barn was come ride..
Not complaining.. I love this life.. it is keeping me in sore back/ weathered skin and a HUGE smile on my face.. !
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 1:09 pm:
Trust me ladies, I'd rather be mucking out stalls, weed wacking, etc. than working at my current job where I'm chained to my desk most of the day or travelling through blizzards to make a business appointment. As it is, I work this full time job and still do all the yard work and house work..No collapsing too early for me: After I put my daughter to bed, I head to the barn to ride...(although I will admit that on the nights I don't ride, I have a tendancy to fall asleep in front of the TV by 9pm...usually too tired to drag my butt out of the chair and end up spending the night uncomfortably curled up in that chair...I need to find a bigger chair... )
Of course, the grass is always greener and spending my life working around my own property and horses is certainly "greener" from my perspective. It's a good thing that the barn owner where I board is very tolerant (and fortunately, very appreciative) of all my putzing around her barn. She truly appreciates how much satisfaction I get when I muck out stalls, drag the arena or find other little jobs to do just to extend the amount of time I'm there. After all, it's SO much more satisfying to sweep a barn aisle than clean my own floors!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 1:53 pm:
I agree,Fran. I'd rather be working outside any day (well, almost any day) than stuck in an office. I still have computer work I have to do for our business, but can do that early a.m. or whenever it suits me. I worked outside the home almost my entire life, so I can relate to the routine. Most of that time I also had horses. Of course I was younger then! We are very lucky where we live now as our farrier is across the road and he and his wife help us out in return for using our arena. Troy also helps with the hay in return for getting some of it. My husband loves to drive the tractor, so that helps also.
What about the people we all know who are "bored" and can't find anything to do?? Don't they drive you crazy? I have no tolerance for them! Obviously they need a horse or two.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 11, 2008 - 4:06 pm:
Sara,
We have an outdoor arena here in the development. The clay base was packed down and then we added about 3 inches of washed sand. After that - nor more discing. That is how they used to treat the arena, discing up the clay, which, especially when mixed in with sand, becomes hard as concrete. Now we drag the arena with a harrow and the clay base never gets disturbed. This arena does get dusty, especially in the summer and when it has been dry for a while. We water it when we have a large group using it.
Diane - I am not sure what the "limestone" is you are using. I think of limestone as Calcium Carbonate. Is the limestone you are using fine like sand or more like small gravel? Our sand never bakes hard in the summer, we only harrow it to keep it evenly distributed.
I would love to know if we could add something to the arena footing to keep the dust down.
Lilo
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 7:17 am:
Yes, Sara, people that are bored drive me crazy too. There's always a charity in need of the gift of time, so I suspect chronically bored people are simply lazy or completely lack imagination....then again, I'd love to be bored once in a while!
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 1:49 pm:
I don't know about HIGH usage but I have a small (70 foot round pen/ arena) that I use.
its tucked up on a small mesa between two rather large arroyos in Northern NM. the original arena base was just 'flattened and de rocked' by hand and using a small tractor with a drag. for 8 hours we went round and round in circles draggin it to remove the tree stumps and the rocks.
then.... we have lots of trees here and do a lot of work on our own. Then we covered it with Chipped wood. the chips are not huge the size of a thumbnail no thicker than 1/2 inch closer to 1/4. covered it with that no deeper than 1 inch top coat. as the horses ride it it mixes with the ground soil. my only problem there is that it will freeze if it rains during the day and freezes at nite. causing frozen areas. but I would bet you all get that.
my guys are barefoot now cause of the Snow we get here all winter and there is NO problem at all on their feet with this footing. I am the only one however that rides the arena - I have two horses we ride in the summer 5 times a week at least in the winter - hope to get out there at least once a week - depending on snow fall.
Some disagree with the chips but I am a fervent believer for my purposes..
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 4:14 pm:
I have used wood products for footing with some success in drier climates, but in the pacific northwest some people use what is called 'hog fuel', shredded cedar bark. I put it in an arena and paddock when I first moved here, and discovered that it breaks down after about a year. When it breaks down it turns to MUCK which defeats the whole purpose.
I have also seen arenas here with a clay base be mostly unusable in the winter as it rains so much but usually doesn't freeze. I think the best thing for you will be determined by a combination of your budget and your climate. I know it's a little late as you have to decide by this weekend but you might want to call around to different public arenas and find out what has worked for them?
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 7:29 pm:
This week I got to ride in a clinic where the indoor had a brown mulchy wood shaving for footing. The owner said that it breaks down basically to soil over time; they use old stall bedding for their outdoor footing, which is probably ok about 3 days/yr and is otherwise slimy, deep, chunky, you name it.
The footing was dusty but soft and bouncy. And holy mark-out Batman could my mare buck in it! So I *think* she liked it, and I was guaranteed a soft landing, if she'd managed to dislodge me.... I prefer my oiled sand.
I've heard stories about the space age footing at one of the facilities in Parker-- it can smush into a ball, and they pick out poop by HAND wearing latex gloves (yup). There was a rumor that the footing alone cost $50K.... Wild.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 10:50 pm:
Hey Elizabeth, I love my horses, but we AREN'T spending $50 K for footing for them!
If I did, I might be picking up poop by hand too!
I'm back to triple washed sand with mineral oil; but can't get the "dirt people" out before end of this coming week. The base is looking pretty good, imo. I'll let you know what the "dirt guys" have to say.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 11:18 pm:
Oh, well, the first $50K is one thing, but all those latex gloves???? I mean, who wants to be buying those things all the time?
Can't wait to hear an update and see photos. We can swap "first ride in my indoor" stories. My barn cat got lost looking for me and started howling like a banished spook, so my horned mare tried to throw me over a truss. Ahhh, memories! But now it's GREAT.
My secret weapon is a good workplace boombox with an aux port-- I plug in my ipod, hit my "Riding" playlist, and it's joy.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 10:53 am:
A "riding playlist!" Of course, what a great idea! Lonnie, who I hate to admit often thinks further ahead than I do, had already given me an old (but still good) sterio system to put out there with connections for ipod or the portable XM radio! He also gave me his grand mother's old microwave oven, a coffee pot, and is buying a small frig. ALL I NEED IS THE A#&$^#&)_ FOOTING!!
My barn cat already has discovered the arena and thinks it looks like a giant sand box just for him.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 4:37 pm:
Oh yes, the barn cats DO love those indoor arenas! Saves a trip outdoors when the weather is nasty. Although I've never cringed about the thought of landing in a pile of horse manure, landing in kitty poo is a whole 'nother thing entirely. ...but the barn kitties are very grateful!
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 4:02 pm:
Ahh barn kitties. that would be nice. we have mice. but more than that we have Coyotes - they eat Barn kitties for lunch and ... they leave presents all over the arena. that you would not want to land on either Fran.
also the playful suckers steal everything. I have red cones to ride around and my lunge whip. Some times they are up to 50 - 100 feet out of the Fenced arena. these are not small cones either - Highway sized about 2 feet tall!
tops all chewed up, and drug all over the place.
Think I need a barn Tiger. that kitty would not only scare out the mice but those pesky Coyotes too. but. then if I fell in that kitty poo ...Grrr
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 5:06 pm:
Now why don't the coyotes eat mice?
Then I wouldn't have to keep such an eagle eye on tasty little french Urfee AND I wouldn't find mousetraps with dead mice all over the place!
Jos
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 7:26 pm:
They do eat mice, gophers, rabbits, etc. Trouble is they will also eat any other small animal they can catch. They also like fruit, eggs, and melons too. They wouldn't eat Urfee, she is too big, but if they felt threatened by her, they would attack her probably. The coyotes we had in Truckee, CA were friendly with our dogs (large dogs) and hung around lying on the manure pile, which was warm. They also liked to sit on our neighbors' hot tub cover, which was very cozy. And, it was very handy to the dish of dog food by the back door!
I just looked to see where you lived Muffi; you seem to have a lot of animals. Now I know why. I had forgotten you were in N.M. Really cute picture of you and your horse, btw.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 9:01 pm:
Well, local scat analysis suggests that coyotes eat about anything, including inorganics such as baling twine and electric fence insulators. Guess they're hungry up here in NoCo....
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 6:58 am:
Sara sounds like you might not want to leave cones around your arena they must attract coyotes.
2 yrs. ago I left my cones out in my makeshift arena over the winter...one went awol. I figured it must have blown away, but couldn't quite figure out how when my "arena" was surrounded by big hills and the other 5 cones hadn't moved. I even asked hubby how that could happen, we were stumped.
That next spring our neighbor brought back my cone, it was in one of the fields he was planting chewed to bits on the top. We were all astounded how far the coyotes had dragged that cone...mostly all uphill (big hills) Crafty creatures and I still don't like them!
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 7:41 am:
Hmmm, according to my husband, Urfee wouldn't be too big for a coyote (he's a cocker spaniel, correct?). My husband was convinced our English Setter wasn't too big and was completely paranoid when he heard the coyotes yipping across the street. He claims that they are attracted to white (i.e our Setter) and that she was at risk. I have no idea if that is true or not, but I always thought a 42 lb dog was not likely at risk and in all the years we've lived here, until Abbey passed away this fall, not one coyote even got close to her. According to the posts above, the coyotes seem more attracted to orange....
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 11:10 am:
They will attack larger dogs, especially if there is more than one coyote, but they don't pounce on them for food. Coyotes around here are few and far between due to all the livestock owners that shoot them on sight. When we did have them I was always amazed at their boldness. I always made sure our cats were locked up at night however; we did loose one and assumed she got eaten, poor thing.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 11:30 am:
Well Urfee is about 25 pounds of tasty french meat coloured in white with orange dots of hair unless she just took a mudbath[like right now] As her ego would be big enough to annoy a whole pack of coyotes I still think it will be best if I keep track of her!
Funny thing is that Kenzo[my Dobie] sees it as his biggest task in life to bark like an idiot as soon as one[or all] of the other three dogs try to go past the 'fenceline' of the property!
Jos
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 9:49 pm:
the "yoties here will play tricks with the larger dogs. they take one coyote and they are playful. they lure the dog to an arroyo - or for you non westerners - that a gully or creek bed. then they have all their buddies waiting there to pounce on the unsuspecting playfull pup and its lunch time - not a pretty site. but... a single "yotie never seems to bother any one. we have one here that is very very curious, good looking animal too - we can get up to 20 feet of it- even closer riding horses. and it just sits there an watches you. I don;t want it to get too friendly though some one is gonna go Rambo on it I fear.
So I try to run it off all the time - if my doggie Yoda doesn't -Yoda is a BIG WHITE DOG too. but he's like 70 pounds of ever loving dog flesh.... and wouldn't hurt a flea. unless they were bothering me or the horses....
so do watch out for your 'yoties. they may be luring your or your arena cones in to the arroyo's for the next snack!
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