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HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Routine Horse Care » Estimating Weight, Height, and Body Condition Scoring »

Discussion on Calculating foal growth = final height

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Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 1:10 pm:

Thank you Dr. O - I am sorry I am not so great with the forum experience yet - truly this is my first ;-)
I have opened a new topic, and I have tried to apply the formula - but math isn't my strength either:

last age measured: 28 months
Height: 14hh 2 1/2
average %: 97%

I divided 14.5 by 97 = 1.4948 (I know I did something incorrectly) I apologize, I am sure it is very straight forward, but I can't wrap my mind around it currently.
Please give me a helping hand.
Thank you.

Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 2:03 pm:

Hi Miriam,

If 14h 2.5 inches is 97% of her final height, you estimate final like so:

1) First convert her height to inches for simplicity (14h * 4inches/hand = 56 inches + 2.5inches = 58.5 inches high).

2) If that height is 97% of her final height, the easiest way to understand the formula (though not the fastest or most elegant math) is to divide by 97 to find 1%, and then multiply by 100 to get a final estimate, like so:
58.5 inches/97 = 0.603 inches (1% of final)
* 100 = 60.3 inches estimated final height.

3) Now convert to hands
60.3 inches/4 (inches per hand) = est. 15 hh (note that the remainder is 0.3 inches, not hands, so it's 15hh, not ~15.2 with long feet!)

Hope that's helpful.

Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 2:56 pm:

Thank you Elizabeth...that was my up-most fear....either her genetics just led her to be so small, or she was stunted at a young age. Her full sister from 2 years prior was 16 hands at this age....although my mare has a much nicer build, but lacks tremendous height for breeding purposes...
Thank you :-)

Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 5:10 pm:

This is her sire at 15.3 (I am a hair under 5'7")
orfeu

this is her dam, big boned stands 16hh - at least that is what they say

Nevoa

Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 5:15 pm:

this is her full sister at age 28 months, just a hair under 16 hands

Zafira
Zafira 2yrs.bmp (56.1 k)

Member:
maggienm

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 5:42 pm:

Miriam, to carry on what you said about breeding at the end of the other thread; I think, for two reasons, that your mare could still have the size foal you are looking for.
If she was actually stunted in growth she is not reflecting the growth genes she carries, and, I admit I am not really clear on this, she may carry a 'tall' gene and if bred to a taller stud have a bigger baby.
I am really more familiar with color genes and how they work.
Someone with growth gene knowledge needs to step in and correct me if I am mistaken.

Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 6:59 pm:

Hi Lori,
thank you for the input, although in one of Dr.O's articles he says that with embryo transfer they have noticed that the size of the uterus has a huge effect on the size of the foal(I can personally contest to that as my first son weighed 9lbs 11oz, and my twins born at 37 weeks weighed 6lbs7oz and 5lbs 16oz - I was told that I am able to carry well since my uterus is a very good size (5'7") - fun fact ;-)
That's alright, I will see what will happen she still has time to grow ;-) even if it means only a little bit :-)

Thank you

Member:
leslie1

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 7:01 pm:

Miriam
Just curious, Of what line is she?

Leslie

Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 7:17 pm:

If that mare is a true 16hh, I'll eat my own PRE mares!

I think those of us who love and breed the Iberians need not to get swept up into the fad for height. It seems to be introducing developmental problems that never were prevalent, and we're losing the agility and coiled power that is so precious in the breed. My stallion is 16.3hh and, to me, too tall, even though he has x-rayed clean all around. I'm breeding him to my nice right-sized mares, and hoping to produce more moderate-sized animals....

Remember what happened to the Holsteiners when the breeders went crazy for height....

Member:
erika

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 7:32 pm:

Elizabeth, the voice of reason! I have seen some real funny looking giraffes when people are going for height that isn't necessarily typical of a breed.

Why do people always think bigger is better? A medium horse is much handier and usually sounder in the long run, IMO.

I do love those Iberian breeds--just as they are.
Erika

Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 8:06 pm:

To Leslie:
Veiga, Andrade, related to Nilo (dam's side)
National Coudelaria and descendants of Zaragata and Yacht (sire's side)

I totally agree that in general all breeds are raised to be too tall (especially too quickly). It definitely is not natural and raises many health-issues - although within all there is reason, and in certain Andalusian lines there are tall horses (which in reality also include Lusitano lines since the Stud-books have only been divided since the 70's - before then the Portuguese and Spaniards cross-bred all the time and the breed was considered as one breed).
If they are put together proportionately, they can be just as functional, but I am not here to argue any of that.
I just wanted a well-formed horse to "suit me" (selfish me) I am a fair height and can make many small-heart-girthed horse look like pony.
I have however ridden a pure Spanish mare once who only stood 15 hands but had an enormous (proportionate though) heart-girth and I did not make her look small. My filly has a fair sized heart-girth ;-)
Thank you everyone for the input.

Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 8:23 pm:

Here is my filly (4.5 months) with her dam (I think the Lady is about 5'5" or 5'6")

Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 9:20 pm:

That's a nice damline, Miriam. She'll have the heart of a lion, even if she's smaller. Don't know the sireline very well.

I'll bet she'll carry you with style, and will have the presence of a much taller horse. Keep us up-to-date on her progress!

Member:
huf5

Posted on Friday, Dec 12, 2008 - 10:00 pm:

Thanks you Elizabeth - she definitely has the heart and character of a lioness!!

From day one she has never been shy - always confident, she was trailered at age six months for 4.5 hours, never phased her. Every time we stopped to get gas, she was munching on her hay- no stress :-)

She can be a handful but I know once this energy is put to good use - WOW (can't wait) I have owned her since she was 2.5 months old - boy time flies - just like our children :-)

Member:
cheryl

Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 7:40 am:

I bought my TWH mare when she was 2 1/2 - she was 15 hands. Between 3-4 she grew a full hand. She had been returned to the seller because she was "too small". I would have been very happy if she had remained around 15 hands :-)

Cheryl

Member:
huf5

Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 10:24 am:

LOL, that also happened to my friend. She bought a 2 year old Canadian gelding, I believe he was just 14.2 at the time. He also grew an entire hand around that same age - and she is only 5'4'.
So who knows what will happen, but I think Elizabeth hit it on the nail yesterday when she said that my filly will carry me with style, and will have the presence of a much taller horse :-)

Either way, she's a keeper :-)

Member:
huf5

Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 10:30 am:

Hey Leslie, I love your profile photo!!!!!

Member:
erika

Posted on Saturday, Dec 13, 2008 - 9:31 pm:

Oh! Ho ho! I like that picture, too, Leslie!

Good to see in the middle of a size discussion especially.
Erika

Member:
leslie1

Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 11:46 am:

Thanks
I thought it was cute too
Its like "What the Heck is that??!!"

Member:
leslie1

Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 12:10 pm:

K, here goes...
I love, love, love the big horses! I just do. Cant help it. I love big horses that are bred to be healthy and that is why I love the Irish Draughts. They fufill both of my criteria. Not saying every ID is healthy but the majority are. There is nothing wrong with a medium or small sized horse. Theres nothing wrong with prefering the biggies either. If you enjoy the feel of riding a huge horse more so then a smaller one then go for it :-)

and Vice versa.
Here are some funny facts about me:
My hubby is 6'4 and healthy
My dog is a great pyr. I searched for a few years until I found a breeder who bred for health. So my prys hips, eyes, etc are super healthy. My vet said "wow, your breeder did a wonderful job"
My hubby didnt come with a warrenty, but he is 10 years younger than me so he should last.
My cat is a Maine Coon and is huge but not fat.
I am 5'4 LOL
Yeah, I have problems with getting off and on (gates), but hey I taught my last horse to kneel so It wasnt a problem after that.
Cheers
Leslie

Member:
huf5

Posted on Sunday, Dec 14, 2008 - 1:32 pm:

Hey Leslie,
After I rode a 16.3 3/4 hand Andalusian stallion who was so square and could fly - I was in love.

I think as with everything it has to be within moderation and realistically. In other words what can work for one may not work for the other. I disagree with "breeding" for size, but not when there is a linage of healthy 'taller' breeds crossed with appropriately chosen mates.
So no worries, no one is here to criticize ;-)
Sorry gotta run, lunch time :-)

Member:
imogen

Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 1:47 am:

Leslie

Forgive me for a pedantic note...? an Irish draught mare shouldn't really be more than 15h 3. It is the TB cross that creates the larger Irish half bred hunter type.

Best wishes

Imogen

Member:
leslie1

Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 9:32 am:

I wasn't necessarily talking about mares or purebloods, just my casual way of conversing, LOL.

Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 10:04 am:

Well, ok, but my perspective of this morning is the following. At -20'F (w/o windchill) when you lose your pasture water and have to bring the thirsty merry herd in one by one to the barn (I wrote "bar" first--ha), would you rather have a bunch of angry 15hh mares or a bunch of angry 16.3hh mares? My ginormous 2 year-olds were no fun under pressure this morning.

Actually, Breyer horses seemed the breed of choice!

Member:
leslie1

Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 10:21 am:

LOL Elizabeth
hmmmm, maybe some Icelandic mares at that temp!

Member:
paardex

Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 4:40 pm:

Hah Leslie not to offend Icelandlovers[horse or else] but the ones I knew were about twice as stubborn to make up for height, and certainly never felt the need to get indoors which poses a problem if the owner has an other opinion.
My old TB [and a few half TB's were nice in this respect, they wanted so badly to get in they did it on their own[just jumped the fence

]
Jos

Member:
huf5

Posted on Monday, Dec 15, 2008 - 7:47 pm:

Hi Elizabeth, we went from -25C to + 7C last night and rain - I really hate that sort of condition, especially as it will DrOp below 0C tonight and all that rain will turn my turn-out area and drive-way into a skating rink...

Member:
huf5

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 16, 2008 - 12:27 pm:

get the skates out, everything is ice today

Member:
huf5

Posted on Thursday, Feb 26, 2009 - 10:29 am:

So, a little up-date here. I am now a proud owner of a 38" chestnut pony, and since have come to appreciate the horses of smaller stature, as it is so much easier to take care of them ;-) I still like the tall guys, but frankly, I would be quite happy with the height the filly is now, and I hope she will not go beyond 15hh!!