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Discussion on Straight alfalfa diet?
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Member:
carol459
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Posted on Monday, Jan 12, 2009 - 8:40 pm:
I'm fairly new to horse care, and I could use some feed advice. I kept my previous QH at a friend's private stable, and she
maintained a balanced feed regimen for all the horses in her care. I've just adopted two QH geldings (a 6 yo and a 2 yo), and I have them at a commercial boarding facility which feeds only alfalfa (choice of hay or cubes) twice daily. My boys were fed alfalfa/grass hay previously, or were in pasture in summer. The 2 yo scatters and tramples the alfalfa stems, so I'll be installing mangers with troughs to keep the food off the ground and prevent waste. Also considering switching to the cubes placed in a bucket. Just not sure if they'll eat the cubes. These guys don't even want carrots or apples! My main concern is with the diet itself and I'd love some advice. Is it OK to stick with straight alfalfa, or should I be providing some other type of feed in combination with the alfalfa supplied by the facility? Both horses are in good condition but the 2 yo is still filling out. I've read the articles on forages and nutrition, but I could not determine if straight alfalfa is acceptable. Also I live in So Cal, where the alfalfa is sometimes linked to enterolith formation. I would love some advice!
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 10:57 am:
Carol,
I have seen many horses fed straight alfalfa as their exclusive source of forage and do fine on it. It is usually considerably higher protein than grass hay and can make some horses hot (behavior-wise) or gassy. IME horses tend to drink more when fed lots of alfalfa and have stronger smelling urine.
When I worked on the track most of the horses got straight alfalfa and cleaned oats. I was told the oats helped balance out the alfalfa but I never got a clear understanding as to why. Dr. O maybe can shed some light on this?
I personally feed all our horses straight grass hay so I can feed more of it and they can spend more time munching. I add alfalfa pellets as needed as a supplement.
I used to feed alfalfa hay as a supplement or grass/alfalfa mix but my horses are also tramplers and found that a lot of it got wasted. That said if they aren't getting any other hay I would probably choose loose hay rather than cubes. I have heard of folks feeding cubes as the exclusive forage but haven't tried it myself. I worry about the potential choking hazard and think they might also scarf them down quickly and then be standing around with nothing to do for hours.
Good luck at your new barn!
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 11:28 am:
Hi
Lots and lots and lots of people feed straight alfalfa...esp. out west. (without any problems)
But like Shannon I prefer my main hay source to be grass hay --as you can offer more, which gives them more chew time, which keeps them happier. IMHO
Are your guys still on grass pasture? If so, then maybe the straight alfalfa will be fine, as they could get their chew time from grazing.
Look at the 'comparable' horses in your new facility...base part of your decision on their condition...if the 6 and under horses look good, then they must be doing something right
Cheers
Leslie
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 11:36 am:
One more thing 
As I see you said you are kinda new to horse care...If you do switch feeds...do so very slowly. over a week or even two. I call it weaning ON TO a new feed
If you decide to use cubes,soaking them gives the added benefit of extra water and easier for them to eat.
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Member:
carol459
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 12:37 pm:
Thank you, Leslie and Shannon! My boys no longer have pasture time now that they're in an urban area, so it's just the straight alfalfa. I'll try keeping them on the alfalfa hay for a while, and as you suggested I'll check out the other younger horses to see how they're doing and if their diet is different. Thanks again -- I really appreciate your insight.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 2:22 pm:
As stated by the others, many feed alfalfa successfully as their hay.
Alfalfa is high in calcium, however, and it is best for the horse's health to keep the calcium and phosphorous ratios properly balanced.
That is why many use a combination of timothy and alfalfa.
The phosphorous-calcium ratio can be balanced with other things as well, such as rice bran, which is high in phosphorous.
Also, grass forages or T & A cubes may be purchased (Triple Crown makes good ones).
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Member:
carol459
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 2:49 pm:
Thanks! I had read about the possible calcium/phosphorous imbalance from straight alfalfa and wondered how best to handle that. You've given me some good alternatives to explore.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 3:09 pm:
I would be concerned about the Ca:P imbalance, like VIcki mentioned. While adult horses have been shown to be capable of handling very high imbalances of Calcium vs. phosphorous (assuming calcium is higher of course), young, growing horses should be kept closer to the ideal standard, which I believe is somewhere around 1.8:1 (?). Depending on what else is being fed - grains, pasture, other hay, supplements, this may create an imbalance in the 2yo's system, causing some problems later. I am SURE that Dr.O has articles about this, and how to balance diets properly. Based on my experiences, I dont think straight alfalfa, without any kind of supplementation to balance the diet, is good, especially for a young, growing horse.
Mel
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 13, 2009 - 9:50 pm:
Hi Carol,
I assume both your QHs are HYPP N/N? Their HYPP status is important for dietary considerations (keeping potassium down). See https://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.aspx?ID=5151
The articles on this site are very thorough on feeding. The only concern I would add on top of HYPP and balancing the diet is that many recreational horses on straight alfalfa become obese quickly. Watch their weight carefully!
- Elizabeth
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 8:48 am:
Despite the Ca/Phos ratio straight alfalfa can be successfully fed to some horses. Oats are fed on the track not so much to balance the diet but because race horses in training need even more energy dense feeds than that provided by alfalfa. Yes the oats do bring down the total calcium as a percentage of the diet.
As others allude to above, the biggest problem you run into with a straight alfalfa diet is that the amount of energy available might make a horse fat when fed at amounts that satisfy the horse's desire to chew. In those cases a grass/alfalfa mixture is best with the amount of grass determined by the horse's condition: the fatter the horse the less alfalfa should be fed.
If you need information on HYPP I would recommend Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Muscle & Tendon Diseases » HYPP, Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis.
DrO
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Member:
carol459
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 8:16 pm:
Wow -- Being relatively new to horse care, I was not even aware of HYPP. I'll check their papers for their blood lines, although I don't believe they are from Impressive lineage. I adopted them through a rescue from a small, struggling breeder in Canada, and they were family pets. They're my pets, now, and I want to make sure I give them the best of care. For diet, I will find out if the boarding barn will let me provide a different feed for one meal. They have only been on straight alfalfa for a few days, but the 6 yo already has somewhat loose/soft stools. Don't know if that's from the diet, or from the stress of a new home. My boarding neighbor suggested replacing one hay meal with cubes, said that worked for her horse. At any rate, I so appreciate everyone's input. This is a great forum!
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Member:
carol459
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 8:11 pm:
Sorry to be such a newbie dope, but when several of you refer to grass hay, do you prefer a particular type -- bermuda, orchard, timothy? The diarrhea continues, looser now in the 2 yo than the 6 yo, and I would like to start introducing grass hay in place of alfalfa for at least one meal, just not sure which is best choice. I considered alfalfa/grass cubes, but since the facility does the feeding, I can't soak them and would worry about choking. So I thought I should stick with hay (or pellets?) and/or maybe plain oats (although these guys are not very active right now, so I worry about weight gain with oats and alfalfa). Is there a preferred type of grass hay?
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 8:45 pm:
Carol, you're no "newbie dope!" Hay and feed is a whole science! I think what type of grass you feed depends a lot on where you live as not all grasses grow in all areas or are available in all areas. If we want Timothy, for instance, we have to ship it in from ID and often it's not available at all. We grow our own grass hay which is a mix of several different kinds that will grow in this area (UT)
Cubes work great and normally don't need soaking. I do soak pellets, however, as I've had horses choke on them. We use cubes when we are traveling or at shows as they are easy to carry, clean, have almost no waste, the horses like them, and it takes them longer to eat them so they stay occupied while standing around.
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 10:02 pm:
Carol, I've had to use T & A cubes for reasons beyond my control.
The horse that I most dearly love to ride hates them when they are soaked.
I use floor pans for anything that is not quickly and easily swallowed because I have found that when the horse is in normal grazing position he/she is much less likely to choke, and if choke happens, more able to clear the choke.
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Member:
carol459
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Posted on Friday, Jan 16, 2009 - 10:19 pm:
You're very kind, Sara! I'm in Southern California, where we seem to have most every type of hay available. The local feed store has bermuda, orchard and timothy available as grass hay, as well as varieties of alfalfa/grass mixtures by the cube or pellet. I was spoiled with my last horse, because my friend who boarded him was incredible with feeds, supplements and monitoring weight and health. Now, with the boarding facility, it's up to me to make the right choices, and you're right -- this is quite a science. Do you find that changing the variety of grass (say from orchard to timothy, or whatever) also requires gradual introduction into the diet? I'm anxious to ease the diarrhea for them, but I realize I can't make any big immediate changes.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 12:05 am:
I don't think changing from one grass to another is as much of a problem as changing from alfalfa to grass or grass to alfalfa. I usually mix in a little of whatever I'm currently feeding with the new feed for the first few feedings. I have to say, however, that my herd could probably eat anything without it bothering them! I am very careful, though, when I switch grains or concentrates.
I envy your choices in hays! Before we started growing our own grass, there were times when I would have happily killed for a few bales of good grass hay of any variety. I have a couple of horses that just can't eat alfalfa, or at least shouldn't eat it. I really have to watch their weight.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 8:11 am:
It is important when you make the change that rather than introducing the new hay as a extra meal you mix it is with the alfalfa. You may notice your horse does not eat the grass hay until you start restricting the alfalfa however.
Concerning changing to different types of grass hays, changes should still be made slowly. And it is not the type hay alone that should be considered. It may be that the maturity of the hay is more important than the type with respect to problems when changing one type for another. If you go from a mature stemmy timothy to a immature leafy timothy you should still make the change slowly.
DrO
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 2:45 pm:
Carol,
Sara is right --there is no such thing as a newbie 'dope'.
Always feel good about asking any kind of question! We are all here to learn... And it is fun getting to know other people who care about their horses as much as I do
I envy your hay choices...
I assume your 2 feedings of alfalfa are included in your board bill. So any other feeding will be coming out of pocket, so to speak. Maybe the most cost effective for you--if they are doing ok on the alfalfa hay is to feed your 3rd feeding only to balacne the CA;phos. So maybe just a bran mash.
I personally wouldnt add another thing with alfalfa in it such as tim/alf cubes etc...I would go with a plain ol' grass (whatever kind, tim /orchard or bermuda, you can get that is the best quality)
LeslieC
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Member:
carol459
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 9:49 pm:
Yes, you are correct, Leslie -- the two alfalfa feedings are included in the board fee, so whatever else I feed is extra cost, although their health is the main priority. The 6 yo's stools are still very loose after a week in his new location, and I'm concerned the straight alfalfa may the cause. I thought it might be best to gradually switch out the 2nd meal for a mix of alfalfa and grass, and maybe eventually just grass with some plain oats as a treat. They love oats. The boys don't get a lot exercise right now, though, so a 3rd meal, on top of 2 alfalfa feedings, might add too much weight. Thank you all for your insight. I welcome any additional advice, and I'll let you know how things go after a couple of weeks of modifying their diet.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 10:32 pm:
Will they work out a deal with you that if you supply the hay they will feed it for you? If thats the case then maybe switch one feeding to a grass hay.Maybe a evening feeding so that they almost get it free choice thru the night. And they can eat the barn alfafa for their morning feeding
It will cure your CA;phos prob. and it will give them more chew time.
Dont worry Carol, youll find your way. Just keep an eye on the young ones nutrition needs. And keep it as simple as possible
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Member:
lindas
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 17, 2009 - 11:28 pm:
Don't worry about being new. There is no such thing as a stupid question.
I have trouble getting good alfalfa around here, it is often moldy. The real good stuff is trucked in at an exorbitant price. We always fed alfalfa/timothy up north, which is my favorite. But since my family relocated to the southeast 30 years ago we have fed grass hay. In Georgia we fed coastal bermuda...very nice hay in my opinion. Here in NC I feed orchard grass, but most of the horse people feed fescue, reserving the more expensive orchard grass for their broodmares. It is easy to cure fescue and the first cutting is usually very nice if the weather cooperates.
Personally as far as grains go I like to stick with a pelleted feed from a reputable company. These big companies spend lots of money balancing diets and hiring nutritionists. You may as well use their expertise. I like pelleted feeds better, there seems to be less waste. Don't ever go for cheap. I can get pelleted feed here for about $7 for 50 pounds...and it is junk. Both of my horses were eating it when I bought them. I now pay about $14 for 50 pounds for the Southern States mid range feed, and have noticed a big difference in my horse's coats. The company has been great about answering my nutritional questions as well.
It's not unusual to see soft stools after any change in diet. Slow and easy is the way to go.
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