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  Discussion on Major Update to Deworming Overview and Schedules Articles
Author Message
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 10:27 am:

Recent reports of growing roundworm and pinworm resistance to ivermectin and moxidectin and continuing increase resistance of small strongyles to ivermectin, moxidectin, pyrantel and benzimadazoles has led to a major change in the Horseadvice.com recommendation of how you should deworm your horses. Whether you follow our recommendations or not you should review both the Overview article and the Schedules article to assess how your program compares to our recommendations.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009 - 4:58 pm:

Thanks for these up-dates, Dr. O -- excellent and much appreciated.

Under Debilitated Horses, last sentence, you may want to proof this as it appears two sentences may have been combined with the last part of one missing, though not a big deal to figure out the general intent.

Am I correct in concluding that though there are cautions about the amount of Moxidectin administered that you still recommend the extra 15% for margin of error above the taped weight, except in the case of debilitated or very young horses?

My fecals have been clear for a couple of years and my pasture space is ample so that the horses can have separate feeding and toileting areas though I do not have the time to pick these up. I do not drag my pastures or put manure on them as my compost heap is used in a vegetable garden instead.

My horses range in age from 17 - 23.

After running fecals just prior to when I would be scheduled to deworm, if they are clear do I still need to deworm because my practices are not excellent?

One of my biggest worries is that I take one of my horses camping a few times yearly and keep him in a portable pen where he is able to eat grass that may possibly have been contaminated by other horses previously occupying the space. Should extra precautions be taken after camping such as deworming or running a fecal test after a couple of weeks following the camp out? Other than this exposure I never let my horses graze at trail heads or such common areas.
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 10:18 am:

Dr. O - Couple of questions:
1- One Vet told me it wasn't possible for my horses to have negative fecal counts - that the sample must have been more than 30 minutes old. It was impossible for me to get a sample to the Vets in less than 30 minutes because we lived 45 minutes away. Is there a time limit when fecal counts are no longer valid?
2- I clean my pasture every day and have still been worming on a one year rotation with invermectin and moxidectin with once a year combination of invermectin or moxidectin combined with a tape wormer. If the fecal count is negative should I not worm?
3- The last time I had fecal counts done it cost $25 per horse. Would a combined fecal count for both horses work as well? If I understand what I read - the best time to have the fecal count done would be when the temps start to stay at or above 45 degrees?
Thanks, Cheryl
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 10:38 am:

Vicki, using the weight tape as your measurement tool we recommend you add 15% to the total with any dewormer. If your fecals are negative and you have no other indication of parasite problems we would recommend you hold up that deworming.

Cheryl, taking your questions by the number:
1) You can have negative fecals, I get them all the time in my practice in well managed herds. If you clean your pastures daily where does your vet think your horses are going to be exposed to strongyles or rounds? Stools will give accurate fecal float test results for at least 24 hours and is dependent on temperature. I think there was a misunderstanding here as every vet should know this.
2) Yes if there are no other indications of parasites as described in the article. Note that this is not much of a change from the old plan that recommended discontinuing deworming after two negative fecals.
3) Yes you can combine the fecals. This should be done by taking a sample from each horse to the vet. He should do the "combining". No, fecals should be run just prior to the start of a new parasite season.
DrO
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 11:56 am:

Thanks, Dr. O. That helps a lot. One important point is that all Vets are not the caliber Vet you are. This is the same Vet who told me founder was a side effect of EPM.
Just to make sure I understand - I should have the FEC done before it starts to warm up. Right now we are in the teens at night and around 40 at night.
Cheryl
Member:
cheryl

Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 11:57 am:

Make that 40 during the day.:-(
Cheryl
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 3:40 pm:

DrO,

Thanks for the updated article. I bought up lots of ivermection ahead, and Quest Plus, now it looks like I need to make sure it stays in a cool spot so it's good when I really do need it.

I was proud of my deworming schedule, and it was in the back of my mind that it seemed like it was overkill, (ha ha)the updated article makes a lot of sense to me.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 6:04 pm:

Cheryl, the fecal needs to be done prior to the decision to deworm, no matter the outside temperature.

Angie, if in the past you had clean fecals prior to deworming you would have been doing an overkill. And take into account the Power Pack requires 5 administrations, you are actually deworming more with this program. The most important point of the old program has not changed: deworm based on fecals. I am trying to emphasize it more than before and have loosened up a bit on what is a acceptable parasite load.

The point here is not that less parasite control is a sensible thing. Farms I care for using the old program were renowned for having no medical colics and excellent food efficiency and many have quit using dewormers regularly do to negative fecals. However on one farm I have seen irrefutable evidence of ascarid resistance to avermectins develop so this development must be taken into consideration.

It has taken me a long time to rewrite these articles and settle on a this schedule. The final recommendation based on a year long research project that with this program believes achieved acceptable control with achieving decreased resistance to benzimadazoles in strongyles. It is not clear at this time that this will be a better program overall but based on the information available at this time, I think it is possible.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Jan 15, 2009 - 8:02 pm:

Thanks, Dr. O - appreciate this very much.
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