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Discussion on Deer and Elk Problems This Winter
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 4:04 pm:
Looking for help with this problem because I’m about at my wits end with this situation…
Here’s some background: for the past five winters I've had little to no elk or deer problems with my horses. I live in a rural area and it’s a given that you’ll be feeding at least few ungulates over the course of the winter. Since I like living here and like the wildlife, I honestly have no problem with that. However this winter has been completely different. I have hoards of deer and elk coming into my paddocks, running my horses off their feed, and eating all the hay. At first I tried chasing them off myself, but they are incredibly tenacious and will only run as far as you chase them – then they’re back at my house – sometimes even before I get back. After several attempts at chasing herds of elk through thigh-high snow, over hill and dale, I got frustrated and called Game and Fish. The game warden for my area came out with firecrackers and rubber bullets and ran off the 20 huge bulls that had taken up residence at my house. He had to come back several times since they were unconvinced the first four or five times. He then had to come back several more times to run off another half dozen elk cows that moved in when the bulls moved out. Now I only have the occasional elk passing through, but have a new problem. There are at least two dozen deer in my paddocks eating all the feed day and night. I guess since the elk are gone the deer are more inclined to stick around since they don’t have to compete for food with an animal that’s twice their size. I called Game and Fish again and the game warden got so tired of coming to my place he gave me his firecracker gun to use hoping it would work to chase off the deer. Well, after about a week and a half of shooting firecrackers at the deer I can safely say that it’s not working. They run only so far and then come right back. Moreover, I can’t really shoot firecrackers off at night because I have neighbors to consider. So the deer continue to raid my paddocks and pull down my electric fence and I have no way to stop them. What the firecracker gun has done is freaked out my horses. So much so that my old guy now refuses to eat for longer than 15 – 30 minutes. I think I’ve given him an ulcer along with PTSD. It’s frustrating because it took me all summer to get him to a good weight (he’s a hard keeper and a slow eater). Now he’s eating only about a flake of hay a day and some SeniorGlo. I try to keep food in front of him at all times, but it’s little use with all the deer around. At this rate I’m afraid he’ll shrivel up and die by the end of winter.
If anyone can help my figure this one out, I would be forever grateful.
Thanks so much!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 7:19 pm:
A guard dog? We have a big deer population also, no elk thankfully! The dogs and horses get along wonderfully, but if something strange shows up in the pasture the dogs are right on it.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 - 8:26 pm:
If not dog how about a recording of Big barking dogs! If that is a no for your old guy can you use a pellet gun?? When fired at top pressure they hurt ask the local coyotes here. Can't believe I'm asking this but are you within your rights to shoot the deer/elk. It is such a hard winter for all but my horses would have to come before Bambi. One other thought wolf urine is used back east to deter deer? Don't know what effect it has on horses?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 5:36 am:
As for running down fences I would recommend high tensile but it must be kept maintained and electrified or will represent a substantial danger to the horses. I don't know much about mule deer but a motivated white tail deer will jump all but very high fences. Up in the mountains in NC and VA orchards use what I would estimate are 8 foot high fences to keep deer out of their crops.
I like the dog suggestion but it may take a few and of good size. Hunting may be the best solution, don't you have friends that like venison? Locally the deer population has become huge and any serious hunter soon has excess meat and donate it to the soup kitchens.
DrO
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 7:20 am:
Good luck, Teddy. I'll be interested to see what works for you. I've seen deer in the pastures where I board, despite 2 Bernese Mountain dogs and 1 Corgie barking at them. My problem is more at home: the deer destroy my gardens. The only thing that has somewhat worked for me (and I've tried everything) is a garden spray that is made with rotten eggs. I frequently spray it on the vegetation the deer like most , and around the perimeter of my yard. It smells like vomit and I most definitely have to watch which way the wind is blowing when I spray it! However, I can't see how this would be practical around a larger area and I would be worried that it would also prevent the horses from eating.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 10:17 am:
Maybe you need a Spanish Purebred? I watched my broodmares chase a herd of deer out of their pasture about a week ago, and my stallion as a 2 year-old ran a 6-pt buck out of his paddock. ("I don't know what you are, but you're in the WRONG PLACE.")
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 10:20 am:
I like DrOs idea. As I was reading it I was listeneing to CNN talk about how the food banks are terribly low right now.
Heres a link to Venison/Elk Jerky
https://www.bowhunting.net/susieq/jerky.htm
Do you have a way to enclose a corral or barn to feed the horses atleast some of their feed.
Cheers
LeslieC
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 10:38 am:
Use a real gun, and donate the meat if the DNR can't keep them out of the pasture with their attempts. Hunters up here can donate the meat and I am betting you can also as Leslie suggests. Like DrO said, you need a really high fence to keep them out; we have an elk farm nearby and I think the fence is 12' high!
We've used the egg spray on our plants, both the rotten egg spray, and a simplier one made with eggs, water and hot sauce blended together. I think it is just those 3 ingredients, been awhile since I made some.
I think deer are like giant rodents, we must have a million up here. They make a mess out of my fence, but I've never saw them eating with the horses but I know they do go in the pasture. I think my one lead mare might chase them out.
Maybe a guard donkey?
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 10:50 am:
How sad that the deer and elk have been driven to this, but I have to say I would be having roast venison for dinner if this happened to me. My own critters come first, period.
If pellet guns and firecrackers haven't helped I doubt a barking dog would unless it was willing to go the extra mile and take a bite out of a few of them. I've seen deer and elk attack dogs too so wouldn't want to risk the safety of my own dumb labs in this case.
Good luck and bon appetit!
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 12:03 pm:
Thank you everyone for your input, advice and suggestions. I’ve contacted Game and Fish again this morning and the game warden is coming out right after he deals with a moose in someone’s backyard and a herd of elk in a rancher’s pasture. He told me that deer were “really hard” to get rid of and when he comes over later today, we’re going to try to figure something out. Unfortunately, when I moved here last summer I didn’t realize that I’m right in an area where deer winter. Lucky me.
Regarding the dog suggestion, I do have a huge Rottweiler who would be more than happy to chase down and eat both the deer and elk. He’s 150 lbs. of muscle and teeth so I have no doubt he would be a powerful deterrent. Unfortunately, it’s illegal for dogs to chase wildlife here – especially during the winter. If your dog is caught chasing wildlife, it can legally be shot. So my dog will have to stay in his yard on this one.
My fences are a combination of post and rail and electric and I have no enclosed place to feed my horses without the deer being able to get in. My lower paddock is electric tape fencing and my upper paddock is post and rail with electric tape. They are of typical horse height and the deer both go over the fence and between the tape/rails. It’s frustrating because they never seem to get shocked. I’m certain that my fence is working too because I go out and test it several times a week. It would be pretty cost prohibitive to build a fence high enough and enclosed enough to keep the deer out. As it is, it cost me over $5K to put in this fence.
As for hunting, although I am not a hunter and never really had the taste for killing animals, this experience has tempted me greatly to get out my gun and do some shooting. But it’s illegal to take deer or elk out of season and without a tag. Further, it’s not legal to take them in my area at any time of year. Otherwise, I would be donating a lot of venison to a food bank this winter.
And Elk….I do have a Spanish Purebred! My younger horse is a PRE import from Spain. It’s funny you say that your horses run the deer out of their paddocks because my horse does the same thing. I’ve seen him running full speed through the snow with his ears back and his head down chasing the deer out of his pasture. It’s as if he’s fed up with them too. If only my older guy – who’s a QH in every way – would do the same. I think if it were just my younger horse, I’d have no problem with the deer since he can hoover down his meals in less than 20 minutes and can get fat by just being too near the hay shed.
At this point I have given up on controlling the deer since it appears to be impossible. I think my only option is to control the situation from the horse end. Last night in desperation, I was trying to figure out how I could put my old guy in the garage for the night – can you tell I’m desperate?? I could also maybe look at putting in an enclosed space in my driveway, but the ground is frozen solid until at least May so that would prove difficult.
I’m incredibly worried about my old guy because he’s such a hard keeper and winter here is so harsh. The temps are in the negative numbers much of the time (40F below zero is not uncommon) and it can snow several hundred inches over the course of the very long winter (last year it snowed over 650 inches). If I can’t figure this out, I think the only solution is to send him to a boarding stable. I’m loathe to do that because it would leave my younger horse alone and put my older guy under even more stress. Being a typical bottom of the herd kind of guy, he gets bullied away from his food and beaten up a lot if put in any kind of group setting. Not to mention that there are few boarding options here.
Thanks again for all your help and support. Sometimes it’s just nice to have people understand your frustration. Thank you all very much.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 12:39 pm:
Teddy
I feel your frustration! Ive been racking my brain trying to come up with something helpful.
Just gunna throw a few thoughts out there:
Im not sure how much boarding costs in your area...but maybe it would be cheaper to buy a few round pen panels from your local ag/feed store and make a tiny round pen up by your house and feed him in there. Places to find used round pen panels...craigslist, feedstore bulletin boards, word of mouth, ask around at large animal vet hospitals.
Once when I had to keep my horse, punky, in a round pen, we had a horrible storm blow in... so at 3 am the storm woke me...I threw my robe and a jacket on (YIKES!) went out and parked my truck next to the pen so she could get out of the wind. She was so miserable she cuddled right up to the boogey-monster...errrr truck.
Anyways, I'll try to keep thinking of stuff...
LC
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 12:45 pm:
Hi Teddy,
Where in WY are you? What's the breeding on your colt?
Remember that deer hate enclosed spaces, so you may be able to construct a deer-scary feeding enclosure (think cheap craigslist panels, old hay tarps) that your horse will tolerate but the deer will not. You don't need to guard the whole pasture-- just a small area where your guy can eat safely.
- elk
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 2:45 pm:
Leslie - thanks so much for the suggestions. I think that a portable round pen might work and is a terrific idea. I'll check around to see where I can get one if my "Plan A" doesn't work. Shipping here can cost a fortune, but it would be worth it. Funny story about your horse cozying up to your truck in the storm. Very inventive owner and very smart horse!
Elk - my guy is Feneco II (Military) x Latina VII. He was imported with his mother as a yearling. I bought him as a 2-year-old and he is the smartest, sweetest, friendliest horse I have ever owned. Even as a stallion, he was always a good boy -- very much like my last stallion, but even better quality. I had hoped to breed him, but ended up gelding him when he turned 7 years old because he was monorchid. I kept waiting for that testicle to descend, but it never made an appearance. It just about made me cry because he's a beautiful representation of the breed – very well put together, athletic, intelligent and courageous – all in all very Spanish. He'll be 10 years old this year and I can hardly believe it. It seems like just yesterday he was a gangly colt.
Oh, I live in Jackson Hole, WY. Land of the eternal winter.
To give everyone an update, I just got done meeting with the Game and Fish warden. He told me that deer are impossible to run off so there's no getting rid of them. But he did suggest that I fence off a section of my paddock with some heavy duty plastic fencing material that they use to put around hay in open fields. (This is my “Plan A”.) The fencing is fluorescent orange plasctic and will be pretty ugly, but it might get the job done. That way I can feed my horse inside the fenced in area and then let him out when he's done. It's hard to describe, but it's a thick plastic mesh type fence that comes in rolls. It's about 7' or 8' high, and I can wire it to the outside of my existing corral fence. All I need to do then is divide the corral in half with the plastic fencing (still working on how to accomplish that). I'll also need to buy some extra long poles to attach to my posts, but I'm fine with that. Jerry, the game warden, is going to see if he has some of that fencing I can borrow for the winter. Otherwise, I can also use hog panels -- which are more expensive and a lot heavier, but they could also work.
Thank you all for your support and ideas. I have had a couple of neighbors disapprove of what I’m doing to try to keep the deer and elk off my feed and out of my pens, so to hear words of encouragement and support are a welcome change. One of my neighbors even cussed out the Game and Fish guy last week for running the elk off. This is the same neighbor who stopped me in the post office and was all sweetness and light. She said she was "concerned" about gunfire from my place because her dog was loose. Since her dog is always loose, I don’t know why she was concerned. Apparently she doesn’t care enough about her dog to put keep it off the road and off other people’s property so how gunfire is worse than a truck or SUV hitting her dog is beyond me. The other neighbor who was “concerned” said that all animals are “kindred spirits” and that they may be a reincarnated relative so I should just let them be. I think if they had twenty or so large ungulates camped out on their property eating their horses’ feed, tearing down their fences and using their property as a toilet they’d be singing a different tune. Sorry … just had to vent there.
If all goes well, I’ll get the fencing up this weekend and I’ll let you know how it works. Thank you all for your help, support, advice and ideas. They are very much appreciated and you have made my week by being there to help. Thank you!!
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 3:23 pm:
Hi Teddy,
I use scrap PVC when I need to strap a pole to a low fence post to add extra height. Schedule 80 is best with the winds we get, but lighter weight will work too. A lot of people will keep those 6-8' leftover sections lying around. They have the additional advantage of not turning your feeding enclosure into a lightening rod. I use heavy zip ties (when I got 'em) or baling twine (when I don't) to strap them to the fence, or the wire if I have to. I'd make sure the snow fence goes on the OUTSIDE of the post. That stuff stretches, and a horse can put a hoof through it after some wear and tear. You can use baling twine to pull it a bit, but make sure it stays safe.
Post some photos of your Spanish boy-- I'd love to see him.
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 3:51 pm:
Teddy, I think you will find more 'kindred spirits' here on HA than in Jackson Hole these days
www.kencove.com has probably the cheapest fencing supplies I have come across via mail and I know they carry a deer fence product, though it might not be as sturdy as the orange snow fence you describe. The great thing about that plastic stuff too is that it won't short out your electric fence. We used to use it for new foals to give them a good visual barrier in electric fenced paddocks.
Good luck with your project!
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2009 - 5:40 pm:
Wow, Teddy...lucky you for having such, ummm, "interesting" neighbors!  Although I don't have the problem with the deer and elk that you do I've been reading this thread hoping a solution would present its self. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
And, by the way, if someone came in and started hauling off my feed and hay and keeping my horses from eating I'd be pulling out a gun, too...relative or not!
~Sara
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2009 - 8:55 am:
Teddy, next time you see these neighbors ask them for a donation, (cost of new fencing and a years worth of feed divided by the number of nuts who cannot mind their own business) that would help keep their relatives safe. It might help illustrate the problem to them. More likely it will make them angry by framing their hypocrisy. Or maybe they will surprise us and pull out the check book...nahhhh.
DrO
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2009 - 11:31 am:
Hi everyone!
Well, I’ve looked around and have done some research on the internet, and found some possible options for deer fencing. I took a look at www.kencove.com as well – thanks for the tip Shannon! Also found these www.bennersgardens.com, www.deerbusters.com, www.invisible-deer-fence.com and www.nixalite.com. So there are lots of options, and thankfully my paddocks won’t look like a construction site with neon orange plastic fencing up all winter long. Using the scrap PVC is a great idea too Elk – and I have some laying around in storage in the garage so I’ll be able to put that to good use.
Dr. O – Hmmmm….asking my nosy neighbors to donate money so their relatives could be safe. Now that would be funny! But you’re absolutely right about that not happening. People like that always feel free to get into everyone else’s business and tell them how to do things just as long as it doesn’t become burdensome on them. I find it amazing that the people on this site are more willing to help and offer support and suggestions than my some of my neighbors are. I wish my nosy neighbors knew how much hard work, time and money it costs to put in hay every year. From finding a suitable hay source (which changes from year to year and is never easy), to buying the hay (which has become ridiculously expensive), to finding and paying someone to deliver it to me (again, ridiculously expensive), to unloading, stacking and covering it for winter, it’s a challenging process to say the least. I put in between 10 and 12 tons every July (and I should add that I buck all 10 – 12 tons by myself) because growers only cut once here and you either buy it all then or you don’t get any hay until next year. I try to overbuy every year so I’m sure I won’t run out, but this past hay load was not all good and I’ve had to get rid of at least a ton of hay so far. Between the bad hay and the additional mouths to feed, it’s possible that my hay won’t last until July. And this late in the year there isn’t any hay available to be purchased. So I’ll be supplementing with cubes to help stretch my hay for the next six months. But more than anything else, I’m just worried about my old guy. He’s a sweet, wonderful horse and winter here is hard on horses – especially the senior set (he’s coming up on 25 years old this Feb). I just want him to be healthy and happy and well. I wish my neighbors could pull their heads out of their posteriors for a minute and realize that.
I’ll be starting my project this weekend if I can get all of the fencing here by then. I’ll probably have to rig something temporary with the neon orange stuff until the real deer fencing comes, but at least I have a viable solution to my deer problem. I’ll keep you posted on how it works.
Thank you all so very much!!
Teddy
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2009 - 4:52 pm:
Teddy, sounds like you are on your way to a solution.
We have bear problems in our area and the paper had suggestions that might help with your deer problem.
You said that the deer don't seem to feel the shock of the fence--with a dense winter coat, they may not. We were advised to put peanut butter on the electric wire at about nose height, so the animal will contact the shock with a, ahem, more sensitive area. They will treat the wire with much more respect!
Also, here in the east, we can buy ready-made horse shelters for around $2000 delivered. You could easily add a door to make stalls to feed in. Big initial investment, but cheaper than boarding in the long run.
What has worked best for my deer problem has been inviting a very nice and responsible hunter to stake out the place. Deer are very territorial and once you have thinned out your herd, there should be much less of a problem. Kinder than starving to death, IMO.
Good luck.
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 8:33 pm:
Erika - your post had me laughing! It's funny you mentioned the peanut butter thing because I read that just the other day on one of the deer fence websites. It reminded me of a friend's cow that mistook a ceramic electric fence insulator for a salt lick(!)...poor cow. If I put peanut butter on the electric fence I could just see my younger horse licking it and getting zapped....then licking it again, and again, and again.... He's one of those guys.
Regarding the shelter, I wish they were available here at that price. Unfortunately being where I am, everything is outrageously priced and I couldn't touch a shelter for anywhere near that price let alone get it delivered. I love it here, but it does prove challenging sometimes.
As for the hunter, I'd gladly do it myself if it were legal. But it's not legal to take big game animals out of season and without a tag. Moreover, it's not legal to hunt anywhere in my neighborhood either. I guess the deer know it too and that's why they choose to live at my house. Lucky me.
Thanks so much for your reply -- and for the laugh!
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 24, 2009 - 8:39 pm:
Well, I had big plans for putting up at least temporary fencing this weekend, but as it turned out we're having quite a snowstorm. Figures. It's been snowing hard since last night and the forecast is calling for more snow through Monday. I spent the better part of the day shoveling snow and clearing pathways and de-icing a frozen water tank. So, I suppose I'll be working on the fence on Monday.
At least my old guy seems to be eating again.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 25, 2009 - 5:47 am:
Last sentence is good news anyway! There's something to be said for a good snowstorm.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, Jan 30, 2009 - 11:34 pm:
Teddy, I just got this story in an email today and wanted to pass it on with a warning--"DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME"!
Roping a Deer
(Name removed to protect this poor soul)
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I had this idea that I was going to rope a deer, put it in a stall, feed it up on corn for a couple of weeks, then kill it and eat it. The first step in this adventure was getting a deer. I figured that, since they congregate at my cattle feeder and do not seem to have much fear of me when we are there (a bold one will sometimes come right up and sniff at the bags of feed while I am in the back of the truck not 4 feet away), it should not be difficult to rope one, get up to it and toss a bag over its head (to calm it down) then hog tie it and transport it home.
I filled the cattle feeder then hid down at the end with my rope.
The cattle, having seen the roping thing before, stayed well back. They were not having any of it.
After about 20 minutes, my deer showed up -- 3 of them.
I picked out.....a likely looking one, stepped out from the end of the feeder, and threw... my rope. The deer just stood there and stared at me.
I wrapped the rope around my waist and twisted the end so I would have a good hold. The deer still just stood and stared at me, but you could tell it was mildly concerned about the whole rope situation.
I took a step towards it...it took a step away. I put a little tension on the rope and then received an education.
The first thing that I learned is that, while a deer may just stand there looking at you funny while you rope it, they are spurred to action when you start pulling on that rope.
That deer EXPLODED.
The second thing I learned is that pound for pound, a deer is a LOT stronger than a cow or a colt. A cow or a colt in that weight range I could fight down with a rope and with some dignity.
A deer-- no chance.
That thing ran and bucked and twisted and pulled. There was no controlling it and certainly no getting close to it. As it jerked me off my feet and started dragging me across the ground, it occurred to me that having a deer on a rope was not nearly as good an idea as I had originally imagined.
The only up side is that they do not have as much stamina as many other animals.
A brief 10 minutes later, it was tired and not nearly as quick to jerk me off my feet and drag me when I managed to get up. It took me a few minutes to realize this, since I was mostly blinded by the blood flowing out of the big gash in my head. At that point, I had lost my taste for corn-fed venison. I just wanted to get that devil creature off the end of that rope.
I figured if I just let it go with the rope hanging around its neck, it would likely die slow and painfully somewhere. At the time, there was no love at all between me and that deer. At that moment, I hated the thing, and I would venture a guess that the feeling was mutual.
Despite the gash in my head and the several large knots where I had cleverly arrested the deer's momentum by bracing my head against various large rocks as it dragged me across the ground, I could still think clearly enough to recognize that there was a small chance that I shared some tiny amount of responsibility for the situation we were in, so I didn't want the deer to have to suffer a slow death, so I managed to get it lined back up in between my truck and the feeder - a little trap I had set before hand ... kind of like a squeeze chute.
I got it to back in there and I started moving up so I could get my rope back.
Did you know that deer bite? They do! I never in a million years would have thought that a deer would bite somebody, so I was very surprised when I reached up there to grab that rope and the deer grabbed hold of my wrist.
Now, when a deer bites you, it is not like being bit by a horse where they just bite you and then let go. A deer bites you and shakes its head--almost like a pit bull. They bite HARD and it hurts.
The proper thing to do when a deer bites you is probably to freeze and draw back slowly. I tried screaming and shaking instead. My method was ineffective. It seems like the deer was biting and shaking for several minutes, but it was likely only several seconds.
I, being smarter than a deer (though you may be questioning that claim by now), tricked it.
While I kept it busy tearing the tendons out of my right arm, I reached up with my left hand and pulled that rope loose. That was when I got my final lesson in deer behavior for the day.
Deer will strike at you with their front feet. They rear right up on their back feet and strike right about head and shoulder level, and their hooves are surprisingly sharp. I learned a long time ago that, when an animal -- like a horse --strikes at you with their hooves and you can't get away easily, the best thing to do is try to make a loud noise and make an aggressive move towards the animal.
This will usually cause them to back down a bit so you can escape.
This was not a horse. This was a deer, so obviously, such trickery would not work. In the course of a millisecond, I devised a different strategy. I screamed like a woman and tried to turn and run.
The reason I had always been told NOT to try to turn and run from a horse that paws at you is that there is a good chance that it will hit you in the back of the head. Deer may not be so different from horses after all, besides being twice as strong and 3 times as evil, because the second I turned to run, it hit me right in the back of the head and knocked me down.
Now, when a deer paws at you and knocks you down, it does not immediately leave. I suspect it does not recognize that the danger has passed. What they do instead is paw your back and jump up and down on you while you are laying there crying like a little girl and covering your head.
I finally managed to crawl under the truck and the deer went away.
So now I know why when people go deer hunting they bring a rifle with a scope to sort of even the odds.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 7:52 am:
Oh oh oh I can't believe it! My stomach hurts!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 8:28 am:
 Love it
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 10:18 am:
thanks for the Saturday morning chuckle, Erika!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 4:19 pm:
Excellent rendition! Thanks for the huge laugh!
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 31, 2009 - 7:54 pm:
Ha ha made me laugh out loud, thanks
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Member:
warthog
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 - 11:41 am:
we also have deer problems in SC believe it or not but at least the weather is a bit easier to cope with. One thing you might try is to alternate hot and a GOOD ground on your electric fences. On a very cold day there just may be no grounding between your hot wire and the animal. we alternate hot and ground and the ground is attached to an 8 foot copper ground post. the other thing you can do is to buy a cheap continuous electric fence charger and use this charger for a smaller paddock for eating purposes. these chargers cost about $35 and are the only thing that keeps our foals in since they're so quick they jump through between pulses. again alternate hot and ground wires. the pvc as a vsual barrier should work also and you can attach pvc vertically to your posts to get some additional height and top your paddock with a horizontal piece of pvc at about 7 or 8 feet. You can also attach good strong tarps around a small paddock for feeding to break the wind and as a visual barrier. we've even tied strands of the day glow plastic tape used to mark off areas to keep people out of your shrubs for outdoor events and they flap in the wind which helps. but your horses may not like them so you can just experiment. One other idea is a lower fence about four feet from your feeding paddock outside it. our large goats could jump over 5 feet up hill from a standstill but when we put a second lower fence using plastic stepin posts and two strands, one hot and one ground, in front of the higher one for the paddock they had trouble.
the last thing we did that did work was to feed in three stacked garbage cans and to cut a hole in the top and wire the top on or secure in some way because deer necks and head are not as long as horses and a horse can reach down inside the garbage cans to eat and deer and goats cannot. we secured the garbage cans to three Tposts sunk in the ground with toppers on them.
the hilarious thing that happened though was one of our very piggy horses stuck her head in so far that when she came up for air the lid made a necklace on her and she wore the garbage can necklace for a day until we got home and took a photo and then took it off.
Only other idea is to get a couple of giant donkeys (sicialian giants or even better - adopt a couple of tamed baby wild burros - they say jennys are best. they supposed will run off anything that moves. our neighbor has a miniature jack and he is also good about patrolling her farm. llamas are supposed to be very good also but I have no personal experience with them??
good luck and let us know what works. the three stacked rubbermade tough plastic garbage cans attached to T posts did work very well to keep our 250 pound giant goats out of the horse feed. big barrels would probably work also. the deer just can't down inside far enough to get the food.
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 - 2:40 pm:
Oh my gosh Erika, that was laugh out loud funny! Thanks so much for making my day.
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2009 - 2:56 pm:
Warthog - thanks so much for all the great suggestions. My fence is a Horseguard Bi-Polar fence which has the ground right in the tape so alternating the hot and ground wire wouldn't work for me. I think the biggest problem is that the deer have too heavy a winter coat to feel anything short of a lethal electric shock(one of the advantages of living in sub-zero temps I suppose). But boy would I love to see just one of those deer get shocked good. The feeder out of stacked garbage cans is genius, but my older guy is so timid that I think he'd not eat out of it because it's too scary. And I have been threatening to get a donkey for years now, this might just be the excuse I've been looking for to actually go out and get one.
Thanks so much for your suggestions and ideas. There are some incredibly inventive and clever people on this bulletin board!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2009 - 12:19 am:
My husband had been wondering why I'm laughing so hard I have tears running down my cheeks, so I'm going to have to pass on that deer roping story to him. I could just see it all happening!
I really like the idea of a BLM burro. We had an old jenny and her foal we adopted. Nothing got into the field she was in. She got along fine with the horses, she mostly ignored them but never threatened them and would hang out with a couple of them. However, she was strongly territorial and protective. Dogs, humans, deer, anything that moved was in danger of loosing it's life if she didn't feel it belonged in her field. You couldn't find a better protector! The Basque sheep herders use them to protect their large flocks and say they will even drive off bears and cougars.
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Member:
warthog
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Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2009 - 11:43 pm:
speaking of electric fence, our guys will blow even the inch and a half electric fence tape but not the 17 gauge galvanized wire so perhaps you could add a couple of strands of hot 17 gauge? I think the single strand just bites harder. I know I hit one I thought was unplugged and wondered why when I leaned forward I got this stinging on my shin bones. I had on thick rubber boots but it was raining and when I leaned forward the front of the wet boot hit my wet leg. It felt like I was being stung by wasps. YOWWW. And again I can't recommend more strongly to get the constant charger instead of the pulsing. It makes a HUGE difference.
I'd love to have a donkey myself - or maybe a camel??? So if you get one please let us know how it works out as a guardian. You may need two though :-)
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2009 - 10:57 pm:
OK OK - I read this entire post and didnt see anyone suggesting this.
Please excuse me for this but I hear it works. So I hope I am not shocking any one. I am a very green natural type person.
I heard that if you - The Human -Pees all around the perimiter that they deer stay away. Urine is a powerful deterent to wildlife. that's why Animals mark their territory.
so have a party lots of beer and Young Adults and ask them to help you keep the deer out?
worth a try and no one gets hurt.
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2009 - 10:32 am:
Sara - I love your story about the jenny and her foal protecting your horses. I have heard similar stories about burros being extremely protective and bonded to their "herd". I had a friend who had a little jenny and she was more like a dog than a donkey. Whenever my friend would go out of town, her little jenny would cry and bray for her. Although I'm not sure if that necessarily a good thing.
Warthog - I agree with you that the single strand with a constant charger would probably have a lot more zap to it, but I'm pretty much stuck with what I have right now being that the ground is frozen solid with maybe five feet of snow on top. I might add that to my "to do" list for the spring though. And your comment about having a camel made me laugh out loud. I'm about halfway to being the Crazy Animal Lady with 2 horses, 2 cats, 1 XXL dog and 9 goldfish (and a herd of 40 deer plus one elk bull) so having a camel makes perfect sense. I'm looking around for a donkey to buy or adopt from the BLM so I'll keep you posted on how it goes. Wow, there's another animal to add to my menagerie!
Muffi - Although I would prefer to take the least aggressive approach to this problem, my particular situation doesn't warrant it. I think urine might work if you're in an area where you only have an occasional non-motivated deer to two passing through your property, but I live in an extremely harsh winter environment and there's huge incentive for the deer to keep coming back to feed on my hay. Their typical winter food is twigs, bark, sagebrush and maybe some dried up dead grasses that they paw through the snow to find. What they're getting is my alfalfa/grass hay which I'm sure tastes better and is far more nutritious. If firecrackers don't keep them off my property, then urine most definitely will not. When I lived in Malibu, CA I had deer coming through my property and eating all of the flowers and plants on my deck. They'd come at night when my dog was inside with me. I tried coyote urine all over the property and it did nothing except make my place smell like a coyote urinal. So, I'd have to say that I have lost all faith in urine as a deterrent. But thank you for your suggestion.
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 10, 2009 - 7:50 pm:
Hi Teddy,
I received my FarmTek catalog in the mail today and as I was going through it, I came across a deer fencing system. I am not sure how big an area you need to fence off, but this looks as if it comes in different heights from 4 feet to 14 feet and on different size rolls. It also comes in different size meshes It uses fiberglass fence posts.
The farmtek website is www.FarmTek.com
The catalog also has some economical horse fencing ideas too.
I hope this can help you out.
Rachelle
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Member:
teddi
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 11:52 am:
Hi Rachelle,
Thanks so much for the information! I'll check out the website, but for now I've decided to not put up the deer fencing. After all the fuss I made over this, I decided to just keep things low key and see if my old guy could sort things out himself. I kept a close eye on him, and food in front of him at all times, and he gradually started eating normally again. Once I stopped chasing the deer away and just let things go back to normal, my old guy was able to relax and feel comfortable again. I am going through hay a lot faster than normal since I'm feeding 40 plus deer, but I actually think my old guy is getting some confidence from the deer. He has discovered that they're all a bit frightened of him and will move away when he moves. It's funny to see him realize that he has some power over those deer. He's still a timid guy, but its as if he's now figured out that he's at the top of the pecking order in the deer herd. So I guess this has been a positive experience for him confidence-wise.
Thanks again for thinking of me though. It's much appreciated!
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Member:
muffi
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 1:38 pm:
Hey Teddy - I just read an article on Irish Wolfhounds - that they chase off deer? as large a a deer at least? maybe an option?
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Feb 11, 2009 - 4:09 pm:
Muffi, the problem with using dogs to chase off deer is that in many, if not all states, dogs can be shot on sight if caught chasing deer.
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