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  Discussion on Need advice on some dental work
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Member:
cpacer

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 10:21 am:

Hi DrO, I have a question about some dental work being recommended by my equine dentist. I forget the exact language used so I'm hoping you might be familiar with what I'll try to explain. He said that my Arabian should have some teeth in the very very back of his jaw removed (or cut off?) due to them causing TMJ and pain when bending—not from tack interference, but because they put pressure on the bones that connect the head to the neck(?). He said that all those teeth don't fit in little Arabian heads??? The procedure sounds like a big deal and I wouldn't want to put my horse through it if not necessary, especially since he seems fine. As per the article, I fall under the "moderate" category with the addition of "wanting the best care".

The dentist seems like an honest guy and has many years in the business with very prestigious organizations, so I'm not discounting his advice, would just like a second opinion.

He also recommended that I have my 3-yo's baby teeth pulled, and to have a realignment done on my teenage QH, which when I first heard all 3 of my horses needed further dental work made me a little cautious. I now see, through your articles, that these are normal procedures, but I don't see anything about the work being suggested for the Arabian.

Thanks.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 11:11 am:

I have owned Arabians since the 60's and raised them since the early 80's and have never heard of one having too many teeth. Unless your horse has some major problems with a malformed jaw or has supernumerary (extra) teeth, I can't imagine why it would need teeth pulled.

Why did the guy say your 3 yo's baby teeth should be pulled? Unless for some reason the adult teeth are coming in and aren't pushing the baby teeth out as they normally do, I don't see why your horse would need this.

By "realignment" and the "other work" are you refering to "floating" the teeth? Where the sharp points are ground off the teeth? That is often a needed proceedure.

Call me suspicious, but it sounds to me like business has fallen off and this guy just needs to make some money. I'll be watching to see what Dr.O has to say.
Member:
cpacer

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 12:05 pm:

No problem that I can tell and it's not "extra" teeth, just a tight fit for what's in there, apparently. Knowing you have Arabians I was hoping you might chime in on this. My guess is that it's not necessary, but the dentist said it's one of the reason Arabians get a bad wrap for being flighty and head high. According to him it's uncomfortable for them to bend their head/neck (remember, I'm just the messenger here). The truth is, my Arabian usually has a pretty relaxed head unless he's nervous or checking something out.

For the 3-yo getting his baby teeth pulled (he'll be 4 in May), dentist said he is chewing to alleviate the discomfort of the adult teeth coming up and that removing the baby teeth would stop him from chewing before it turned into cribbing.

And the realignment -- I'm not sure how or why it happens, but the front teeth start to wear/grow unevenly, preventing the back teeth from making even contact on both sides (DrO, correct me if this is not the right understanding).
Member:
cpacer

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 12:48 pm:

Actually, I guess the fact that my Arabian has a relaxed head wouldn't really have anything to do with bending ability, would it?
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 1:57 pm:

Well, B.S. is my personal opinion as far as the Arabian goes. I'll let Dr.O comment on the rest.

Any horse's lack of ability to bend has to do with his conformation of neck and shoulder, and where and how the neck comes into the body. Also, the ability or knowledge to round his back and collect. When I horse is tense, it doesn't bend good. The ONLY thing I've ever heard or known about concerning teeth in an Arab being a problem is if the bit is hitting the teeth, in which case the wolf teeth are usually taken out (regardless of breed.) One thing though, a lot of Arabians do have smaller mouths and require a smaller bit than is used on a lot of other breeds.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 3:17 pm:

Good grief. I and my friends own many Arabian horses amongst us and have had no such trouble.

One of my boys does need one of his back teeth to be watched closely that has needed extra grinding because it tends to grow too long and dig into the opposing lower tooth but this is not a major deal and involves some extra grinding at times, but no removal.

The suggestion of the Arabian horse carrying its head differently because of crowded teeth as a breed characteristic sounds way off to me unless it has possibly happened in some cases of poor breeding.
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 4:02 pm:

Hmmm, just the odds of all 3 horses needing work makes me suspicious. I've watched our equine dentist check a whole barn full of horses (11-15, assorted breeds incl 1 Arab) and other than a few needing a routine floating here and there, the vast majority needed no work.

cp, have you used this dentist before?
Member:
cpacer

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 4:38 pm:

yeah...I guess it is sounding kind of nutty. The thing is, when I first heard it I thought NO WAY, Arabians are the oldest, purest breeds around, how could they have such a defect!?!?! (I'm sure I made a funny face too) Arabians are the picture of perfect (tee hee). And it was not something specific to mine.

Fran, this was the first visit. It had only been a year since their last floating with someone else. I know people are hard up for cash right now--guess maybe I have sucker written on my forehead.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 5:05 pm:

Fran makes a very good point.

And you, cp, were right on with wanting a second opinion. Trust your instincts.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 5:12 pm:

I have been told by an equine dentist before that since Arabs have a tinier muzzle that their teeth can get crowded and in a way makes sense..have never had the problem personally

I try to abide by the if it ain't broke don't fix it rule tho! My arab gelding has only needed to be floated once in his life, he is checked yearly.

When Hank was a 3 yo. his top 2 front teeth did cause him problems, but the adult teeth were already half way through so we pulled them..he did feel better, his gums were bleeding and the adult teeth were coming in crooked since the babies wouldn't fall out. If the adult teeth aren't present I'd be hesitant to pull the baby teeth.
Member:
rtrotter

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 8:56 pm:

Hi CP,

I have been dealing with a very good equine dentist for many years and thus have had many conversations with him. From the time a horse is born a horses mouth undergoes changes. The most are noticeable between 2-5 years old. Just like kids who have adult teeth come in over a period of time and they shed their baby teeth. So do horses.

My two year old just turned three year old, lost two each of his upper caps from his back most molars, first on the left and then on the right, then he lost his two front upper teeth and then his two front lower teeth. Most of the upper and lower front teeth fell out on their own, one of them I pulled out because it was hanging by a thread. The equine dentist had an easy time with the molars on the upper left, but the upper right ones were not quite ready, so he left them alone for about three weeks. When he came back a few weeks later, they were ready and just popped off. This colts adult teeth were under the caps. This colt already had his wolf teeth out at 20 months because the one on the right was interfering with the overcheck bit and he was getting on a line.

I pay a lot of attention to my horses teeth and its the first place I look if I am having a steering problem (racehorses)or if they are throwing their heads or acting uncomfortable putting their bridle on.

Now, if this horse sheds his teeth like my others, we will be having another session late this year into next year as he sheds his three year old caps.

Like Fran C said, my older horses very rarely need any work done.

I guess what I am trying to say is unless you are seeing a problem, or there are obvious issues with your horses teeth, I would not do anything more than a routine check and a float if needed.

Rachelle
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Feb 6, 2009 - 10:39 pm:

cp I am not sure what you mean that my article talks about removing the rear teeth because they don't fit is a normal procedure. I have never heard of such a thing.

I personally let baby teeth come out by themselves the vast majority of the time and as to whether you older horses teeth need realignment or not will take an exam. I agree that if you are not having any problems have the teeth looked at by your veterinarian next time he is out and get a second opinion.
DrO
Member:
cpacer

Posted on Saturday, Feb 7, 2009 - 8:21 am:

DrO, I read that the baby teeth "can" be removed. The "rear teeth" issue is something different that I was asking you if you had ever heard anything about.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Feb 7, 2009 - 11:27 am:

Right, and I have not heard of removing adult teeth due to overcrowding. But just in case I still am not understanding you typically if there is a loose baby incisor or cheek tooth, capping the incoming adult tooth I may remove it often just with my fingers and rocking it back and forth. Very rarely you may run into a tight retained premolar cap and we have a instrument for removing these.
DrO
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