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Discussion on Footing for Run-In and sacrifice
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 9:42 pm:
Hi all,
Been perusing the posts here on related topics and was hoping for some advice. We have a run-in with rubber mats and I would like to add a couple of sacrifice corrals to the front. There is no area on our entire 100 acres that does not get crazy mud for 4-6 months out of the year but I would like to try to make the run-in and the corrals as mud resistant as possible without going broke. I had originally planned to use stone dust but out here it costs 21 bucks a ton and I just can't do that.
Diane, I saw your gorgeous space with the ag lime and was going to call around about that but my husband is so not convinced there isn't something mixed in with your ag lime - is it straight lime or is there sand in there? Is it harmful to breath when dusty? Hubby is very concerned as he is a sinus cancer survivor and very sensitive.
And I considered sand but do am I guaranteeing colic with that (one mare is a total pig and will snuffle around like there are buried truffles)? Or pea gravel (also pricey and the pea gravel here is driveway quality which I'm told is not good for horses)...
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
We're in southern quebec, just over the vermont border.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 10:16 pm:
tamara it is pure ag lime. The ag lime doesn't get real dusty unless we have a terrible dry spell. I don't imagine it is any more harmful than any other dust . Around these parts ag lime is VERY cheap. I did my arena and added some more to my paddock for $500 trucking included. We live pretty close to the quarry tho. I can't remember how many ton it was we put down. The cost was only $2 a ton!
I highly recommend for mud control, but as I posted before it must be put down correctly.
We just had a couple ins. of rain last week and all the snow melted with it....absolutely NO mud in the paddock.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 5, 2009 - 9:58 am:
Thanks diane, I read your posts on installing - layer, wet and pack right? we are putting some french drains around to try and pull away as much water as we can but the water is unreal in the spring and fall here and it sounds like the water-sucking lime might be just the thing to keep the girls dry...
I am going to get the closest quarry to quote when they open in 2 weeks... we are a big agricultural area and everyone limes so I'm hoping the price is reasonable...
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Member:
stek
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 5, 2009 - 10:54 am:
Oh Diane .. $500 to do your whole arena?!?!?! I am so envious! We don't have ag lime here in the northwest, and sand is $500 per 20 yard load. For the arena we are putting in this year I calculated at least $5000 for footing alone.
Tamara, I would definitely not recommend sand unless you put a base under it, I tried it in runs once and it just sank into the mud even with a geotex fabric barrier under it.
Also one tip about french drains: make sure you backfill them all the way to the surface with a free draining material rather than native soil. In the same project where we used sand as footing we had a french drain under it, but backfilled the last few inches with sandy dirt and the french drains didn't do a thing as the horses compacted the dirt on top to form a seal.
If you can't find lime I'd suggest a good compacting gravel like 5/8- with maybe a touch of sand on top.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 5, 2009 - 5:56 pm:
Yes, compacting, watering, compacting watering! It took me a whole day of driving the lawn tractor back and forth . We put ours on a clay base that was dry and well compacted. It also has a small slope to it, which is very important. You wouldn't believe the gully washers it holds up to. We are suppose to have heavy rain all weekend, I'll take a pic if you'd like so you can see what it looks like after 3ins. of rain.
We have a drain going around the back of the lean to and it stays completely dry unless the wind blows some rain in. The lime in there is cement like. I put shavings in there in the winter so they have a soft place to lay...In the summer they come out!! Grass is plenty soft to sleep on, It does get dusty in the summer when it's very dry, I water it down with a hose then...last year I didn't have to water it once...some years a couple times a summer. We had the paddock/lena-to for 4 yrs. before we had to add some lime last year..it only took half of a load.
Hope that helps
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 5, 2009 - 6:10 pm:
Diane , will it hold up to a horse pacing on it during the rain? I am sure nothing will be perfect.. but this spring we are going to give this a try.. + adding french drains as well..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Mar 5, 2009 - 6:47 pm:
Ann, I think as long as you do it right and put it thick enough it will hold up great...with a little maintenance. My horses pace back and forth in front of the lean to constantly, it holds up very well.
Seems the more they move on it the harder it gets. Last year when we added a truckload I was too lazy to pack it, hubby just back dragged it with the tractor ( I knew it had a good base) It rained the next day and within a week the horses had it packed down hard. The wetter it gets the harder it gets after it dries. That's why it is important to do layers and water very well then pack initially.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 8, 2009 - 9:14 am:
Since I am so impressed with this stuff I wanted to show you pic from this morning. The local report says we have had 3 in. of rain and it is still raining!
Here's a couple pics of the pasture right outside the limestone paddock.
Here's pics of the paddock the first one shows where Hank just got done pacing for breakfast. The second the paddock surrounded by mud and water.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 8, 2009 - 9:26 am:
Tamara here is Flash in the lean-to Her shavings are still dry and you couldn't find mud in there with a magnifying glass There are no mats.
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Sunday, Mar 8, 2009 - 3:04 pm:
Unreal, I am so jealous!! Dying to hear what they come back with on a price for ag lime here... 2 weeks is going to seem so long. the quarry is about 40 minutes away... we have our own equipment to spread with if the ground is good enough to drive over to the shelter. We actually won't be able to even get it trucked here till may since trucks are banned from the roads march thru may. but oh after seeing your pictures I want it over here now!
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Member:
kriseyc
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Posted on Monday, Mar 9, 2009 - 6:36 pm:
Hi Ladies,
Could you please tell me what "french drains" are? (I've been to France...but did not take note of their drainage)
Thanks!!
Ike
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Monday, Mar 9, 2009 - 9:02 pm:
hi!
Well we make them by digging a ditch, laying in a perforated plastic pipe with a "sock" on it, and filling the ditch with gravel. Water hits the ditch, moves thru the gravel and into the pipe which then directs it elsewhere. The sock and gravel keep mud from clogging all the holes in the pipe and rendering it totally ineffective. I think technically you can do them without a pipe but we find with our amount of water flow the pipe keeps up better....
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Member:
kaarina
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Posted on Monday, Mar 9, 2009 - 10:11 pm:
OK, a question on this topic for DrO... I have a family connection up here that has a company for which a waste product is fines which are basically very fine crushed Basalt rock sand. I know volcanic rock sucks up water like crazy and this stuff compacts like road base. Do you think it could be used under the rubber mats in the run-in? Can you see any safety issues for the horses (obviously we would not feed on it or allow them to ingest it)?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 10, 2009 - 7:40 am:
Tamara, I am uncertain as basalt is quite variable in composition some quite high in aluminum and or magnesium also some basalt contain traces of lead and radioisotopes. So the answer may need to rest with someone who knows more about the particular type basalt you are dealing with. Then again I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill, I just have no way of evaluating the risk without knowing the amount and composition of the basalt your horses might come in contact with.
DrO
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New Member:
lucyc1
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Posted on Tuesday, Mar 10, 2009 - 8:50 am:
IKE, we recently installed French Drains at the edge of our dressage arenas. The pipes we used had holes half way around the pipe. (They make a black pipe with perforations all the way around -- for use in septic systems, etc., but these don't last as long.) Surprisingly we were told to lay the pipe with the holes DOWN, not up. The reason is that the water will percolate through the rock, DrOp what sediment it carries to the bottom of the rock filled ditch, and as the ditch fills with water, the pipe will fill, from the bottom, with cleared water, and the water will take the path of least resistance out, through the pipe, away from the area you are draining. Placing the pipe with the holes down thus prolongs the life of the drain by preventing the pipe from filling up with sediment, or at least it slows the process way down. To make this effective you need to lay the pipe on top of a couple of inches of rock rather than at the bottom of the ditch to create a place for the sediment to settle.
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