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  Discussion on POOR QUALITY HAY
Author Message
Member:
maribeth

Posted on Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 - 10:22 am:

I'm new at horse care. I had to purchase more hay mid winter and went to a new source. First bale looked ok, more alfalfa with some grass. But all the other bales I have appear to have been cut late, have very little grass, fair amount of alfalfa but a lot of stalks and stems. Been feeding the horses same ration but they are DrOpping weight. When I run my hand on their sides I can feel ribs that I didn't feel before! I have 90 bales left of this stuff to use for the balance of the winter and my barn won't hold much more. Any suggestions? They receive 1 scoop (the feed scoops purchased at farm supply stores) of grain in the evening. Pelleted 14% sweet feed for senior horses. They are very idol this winter, and are only used for light use in spring summer and fall. Appetites are good. Fed in morning and evening. I feed 1 bale a day between both horses, maybe a little less. Both horses are about 1200 lbs I'd say. I've read the nutritional info provided at this sight but I feel like I'm kind of winging it when it comes to a feed plan for my guys. Jags is 13 yrs old and Brax is 22 years old.
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 - 12:18 pm:

It's good that you noticed that they are losing weight. So many horses end up really bad off and it seems that the owners don't notice or don't care to notice.

If your horses are losing weight then you need to feed them more calories. No two ways about it.

Increase their feed. Throw them more hay. Feed the concentrate morning AND night . . . Make grain/concentrate additions slowly by increasing a little (a couple of cups) every few days until you get up to an extra scoop in the a.m. Or you can add some oil to their feed at night, but increase it a 1/4 c more every 3-4 days or so until you have added an extra 2-3 c max of oil per horse (some horses won't eat oil on feed, and it sometimes helps to put the oil on the pellets and then pour on very warm water to soak it in).

The bottom line is that the horses need more than what they are getting. If you can't store more hay and don't like the kind you have, then you can supplement with alfalfa/hay cubes (broken apart and/or soaked).

You can get assistance from your vet or some experienced horse people in your community. You can also get in touch with the nutritionist from your Feed company. If you have a local feed company, they should have a nutritionist who will be happy to meet with you and discuss your horses' nutritional needs.

Good for you for keeping aware and for asking for help. Take care.
Member:
3chip

Posted on Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 - 1:54 pm:

I don't know what these bales of hay weigh but in my opinion you should feed 2.5 lbs per day per 100#. However, I would feed more than that if the horses are losing weight. Give them an excess, say 3 or 3.5 # per cwt. Unless the hay is very poor quality, practically worthless, they should do better. The supplemented hay in the form of "Senior" or something else, will give you some indication of how much they want to eat. Especially in the older horse. Give them all they want (hay) even if they seem to be leaving a lot in the feeder. They know what and how much hay is good and will eat based on that knowledge.
Member:
stek

Posted on Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 - 2:24 pm:

Holly and 3chips suggestions are all good. I would also recommend that you have fecals done to check the parasite load and have their teeth checked if they haven't been done recently. Both can unthriftiness in horses.

Also feeding by weight rather than volume is a much more reliable way to be sure you are feeding enough.

Finally I second the kudos on being aware enough to notice what's going on .. being aware and educating yourself are half the battle right there!
Member:
maribeth

Posted on Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 - 4:39 pm:

Thank you everyone for your recommendations. I love this membership, I learn so much from people like you. I've always watched my horses carefully for weight fluctuations but especially since this winter has been so hard. I forgot about the oil. That is a good idea. I started giving them a little grain this morning, I'll increase that gradually. This hay has more alfalfa then what they are accustomed to which I thought was richer. But with less grass in it I don't think they are getting what they need. Thanks again
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Mar 12, 2009 - 6:05 pm:

Hi Maribeth it sounds like the same type of hay I am feeding my horses. If I had to guess it sounds like 1st crop hay, which is usually much stemmier and weedier. I have 3 horses, well actually 1 15.1hh horse and 2 would qualify for medium ponies.

They clean this hay up well, but aren't gaining weight and may be DrOpping some...they are VERY easy keepers so in my case that's good!. They get 2 bales a day of that hay....about 70lbs, which is a lot for them. If I give them good quality grass hay I have to keep it to about a bale a day....35lbs.

Can you possibly up the hay? I also give mine soaked alfalfa pellets to up the protein content a bit. If I had 2 1200# horses that were ribby I think I would be giving them at least 2.5% of their body weight in good hay. Poor quality hay you may want to double that, so depending on what your bales weigh they should possibly be getting a bale each a day, most small squares will weigh between 30 and 50 lbs. around here anyway.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 4:38 am:

hmmmm maybe more of this hay and then maybe supplement with calf manna...I read somewhere its good to use with poor quality hay.
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 7:31 am:

Leslie, I can vouch for the calf manna putting weight on a horse. Last year, we gained a new boarder, a very difficult to keep TB mare, 18 or 19 years old, I think. We always have good quality hay, fed to each horse's needs, and also a good quality feed. The TB mare just wouldn't gain weight, no matter how much she was given. Calf Manna was added to her feed, and despite a difficult and cold winter, Lili looks great. I just saw her for the first time 2 weeks ago without her winter blanket on and she has really filled out beautifully. Her owner commented that she was really pleased with the weight gain and this was the best the horse looked in a long time. I looked at the bag and remember the Calf Manna to be very high in protein, but do not recall all the specifics. I would imagine there's more info on it in DrOs articles.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Mar 13, 2009 - 9:02 am:

Hello Maribeth,
I would not match up Calf Manna with alfalfa guys. You are right it is very good to boost poorer quality grass hays but its high calcium concentration makes it a poor match for alfalfa. Even poor quality alfalfa is quite high in calcium.

The key here Maribeth is to look at this in a holistic way and not solely a feed problem, though it may well be. I would be interested in the weight of the hay being fed daily that they were loosing condition on. Review Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Weight Loss in Horses » Overview of Chronic Weight Loss so that other problems are not missed.

That said I would follow the recommendations given above: increase the amount and/or quality of the feed. There is nothing wrong with increasing concentrate just make sure they are getting adequate amounts of forage too.
DrO
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