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  Discussion on Outdoor Arena Help2
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Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 5:00 pm:

Ok if anyone is interested here is what my arena looks like after going through a rough winter and torrential rains I harrowed it today and could use it easily if I hadn't slipped on ice and broke my butt

The first pic is right after I harrowed it.


The second pic has the clay that is right before the arena and you can see what a washout that has been


This pic is my foot prints right after I harrowed.
Member:
dres

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 5:35 pm:

looks nice.. but i am confused.. is this the same stuff you use for your paddocks to keep the mud out.. ? Seems this with use would then compact and become hard unless you work the soil often?

I know i buy ''washed'' arena sand that still has silt in it.. I don't see it till after the arena drys crusty from being wetted down to keep the dust off.. I still have to work the arena often to keep it soft and fluffy..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 5:48 pm:

YUP Ann it is the exact same stuff and it does get hard as a rock! I really didn't think it would since I didn't compact it, but just being in the weather it gets HARD! Once this dries up I won't even be able to harrow it enough to get any loose footing. So what's down now (and I am going to add some more) is going to be the sub base I guess you'd call it. Over that I am going to add a mix of sand and limestone for the footing, I'm not real sure yet what percentage sand I will go with but I'm thinking 60% sand and 40% limestone at about an inch deep???? OR is that too deep? I'm going to see if I can find the washed sand with no silt.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 5:51 pm:

OR is it large grain sand that is suppose to be good? I don't remember now, guess I'll have to go back and read the 1st post
New Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 6:01 pm:

the info I have found thus far online is to use sand/limestone OR sand/rubber OR sand/and a million other ingredients...woodfibers, synthetic fibers, etc. about 2" deep. Mixture depends on how clean the sand is. I think I found a plant which sells silica sand in Ottawa, IL. It is expensive.
New Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 6:28 pm:

If you search Illinois Aggregate Producers you will get a list of plants. Not all plants sell silica. Superfine silica is to be avoided--used in sandblasting; inhale that supposedly it's a carcigon (sp?) No wonder arena builders keep their footing recipes secret...Check out the Kentucky 2010 International/World Eventing, Rolex Horse Expo--building a new facility and "Otto Footing" experts are flying in from Germany...for crying out loud...I'm just a yahoo in Indiana trying to avoid hardpan and quicksand...lol Thank you very much for your help. Very nice of you to take the time!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 7:03 pm:

Vicki, I went back and read through the 1st post and did ask Dr.O. about the depth of footing. He said 3/4 of an inch is about right...I think 2in would be too much FME with this whole thing. You can always add more, but very hard to take it back out I think the sand and limestone would be a very good mix as far as stabilization and drainage...especially if the sub base is packed lime...
Member:
dres

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 7:09 pm:

Diane i think i would stay away from the limestone with the sand... becus it will crust up just like the silt does and eventually will become hard.. I would go with pure sand 1.5 inches deep OVER your packed limestone .. and then you will have to drag it to keep it fluffy.. but not deeply..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 7:58 pm:

Ann, isn't 1.5 in. a bit deep...I tell ya after this bowed tendon I never want to deal with leg problems again (of course I don't have to tell you that!). Your footing doesn't look that deep in the pics from the 1st thread.

I'm not sure mind you, but just from the way the limestone "acts" I don't think it would crust over when mixed with sand, but would help make it a little less "rolly" as someone else put it in another thread. In other words a little firmer I guess! Maybe I will do a little experiment on a small piece of it before I do the whole arena.

Thanks
New Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 10:44 pm:

Ann, what type of sand are you using? Sand varies so much throughout the country. Do you have any idea what % of fines (silt,clay,organic matter) you have in the sand? Are you using screened/washed sand? Silica/Quartz sand? Do you have any idea the size range of the sand particles? Larger quarries should have specs for their products; they have to provide the specs for their products for many commercial jobs--engineering, permiting, etc. requirements.

So, you use straight sand in your outdoor arena? How deep? Most of what I have read said to start with 1" to 1 1/4" and not over 2".

I need to go back and look at the first thread.

Thank you again ladies for your help. I've been looking around and this site is very helpful!
New Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009 - 10:50 pm:

Diane, if you use the 60/40 mix of sand/limestone, I'm thinking the sand would have to be very "clean" with little silt/clay/organic matter. The silt/clay/organic matter in combo with the limestone will crust and get hard. If your sand is real dusty, then it probably has a lot of silt/clay/organic matter in it--at least from what I've been reading...

Anybody have experience with a dusty arena?
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 12:24 am:

Wow, I read the entire first thread. Everyone has a good sense of humor. And Diane I forgot to tell you I'm sorry you broke your butt trying to get me a picture of your arena. I am suffering from Arena Madness. And a pretty severe case it is. I have been searching and reading online for about three solid days...I'm up while husband is sleeping, "sneaking" more time on the computer to learn more about footing materials. Husband has been remarkably patient, but would probably like to throttle me. He built me a beautiful barn last fall, so now I'm yammering about an arena...like it never ends... I'm very fortunate that we have all of the heavy equipment necessary to do the work, but I'm short on knowledge, and don't want to $pend a boatload, and don't want to waste $ building a crummy footing. Thanks to all who have posted, I learned a lot.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 7:06 am:

Vicki I didn't break my butt yesterday...did on my job Mon.. I know what you mean about getting the arena right without breaking the bank...I read for hours about it. When I harrow my limestone when it is a bit damp as in the above pics the footing is about 1/2 in. and is perfect. I would think if you are going to drive your Halfies in there you wouldn't want it much deeper?

I still can't imagine for some reason, the limestone getting crusty when mixed with sand. On my job I have to go to all the boarding barns in the area and quite a few horse farms with outdoor arenas....The all sand ones look very "goopy" after a good rain and take quite awhile to dry.

The limestone arenas dry very well and quickly, but get very hard

The grass arenas seem to dry faster than the sand, but most of them are rutted and have uneven footing.

My neighbor is into driving also and has a driving arena...it is grass. I find grass can get slick...FME.

One boarding barn has a lime/sand mix and I really like the looks of it, will have to stop and really look at it next time I'm there. I know it dries fast and doesn't seem to get as dusty as the all sand arenas.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 8:44 am:

Though I am not sure what Diane refers to when I say 3/4 of an inch it is very dependent on the material. How deep the loose footing should be will depend on the the consistency of the footing. You do not want it so deep that the heels sink deeper than the toes at a trot.
DrO
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 9:53 am:

Vicki, the sand we put in is called Arena sand.. some call it Concrete sand or PG&E sand.. I have no clue what the %'s were / are, but it was screened wash.. and STILL has silt in it.. :-(
I put in 1.5 inches of sand in ours when we first put the arena in.. since then i have to add about a truck and transfer of sand every other year depending on how much use the arena gets.. This year i should add it again , as we rode on it almost all winter...
Going by Dr. O's discription on foot pattern in the sand.. ours is perfect..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 10:27 am:

Your arena looks good after the harrowing, Diane.

My outdoor arena here had 4 double loads of sand put in last summer; needed about 2 more loads, I think, but couldn't afford it at the time. Will get it this year.

If I keep it turned up, and if it's dry, then it will be fluffy. After any rain, it gets a hard crust. We have, maybe unwisely, turned up some of the dry, KS dirt in with the sand, and since the area was a feed lot for cattle before I got here, there are lots of rocks that have come up. I spend quite a bit of time picking rocks. I don't know what the name of the sand is but I know it has a bit of clay in it. It does get dusty, but not bad and not really a problem, since it's an outdoor arena. After living around the country, I know that there are regional differences in the naming of the sand. Beach sand would seem to be the best for not crusting over, yet I expect it's also the most expensive . . . especially if one lives inland.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 11:46 am:

Ann, we have what is called "concrete sand" around here put in a couple of our pens. I hate the stuff. It is just too fine and will not drain at all. It also will get very dusty, as you are finding out probably.

We had to do a lot of searching before finding decent footing for our indoor. What is the best footing, if you are going to get technical, depends on the discipline you are riding. Western events are better using a heavier dirt/sand mix - more native dirt than sand. This gives them more "grip" on turns and fast stops. Of course, it can't be too deep, or you risk injuries. Jumpers need a firm base with 2" of cushion on top; dressage rides are best in fluffier, deeper stuff, etc., etc. I had a whole bunch of web sites on arena footings and sand saved in my "favorites" list, but foolishly deleted them.

One thing I do remember that helped me find good sand, was to carry around an empty jar and everytime you find a sand that looks good, put about an inch of it in the jar, fill the jar with water, stir, and let it sit awhile. All the different types, sizes, etc. of sand and fines (silt) will settle into layers and you can really see the percentages of each type of dirt. I also remember that you want small, angular sand instead of larger sand or round granuales. The round sand, often river sand, is like marbles and will cause slipping. Large angular sand can work into the hoof, expecially if the horse is barefoot. It seems like I was told 3mm or less, but I'm not sure about that size at all; it's just what's in my mind. I'd have to check.
Some times of sand, like the Ag lime, won't last as long as other types because it will break down faster into fines and have to be replaced. Other types will last a very long time, depending of course on how often you use it. The shape and size of the individual grains is what determines how long they will hold up under use. The best sand is manufactured screened sand and is triple washed. Good luck finding that!

It took me forever to find decent footing, and even then what I found was a compromise. Visit quaries, with your jar, and see what you can find. Talk to contractors also. If you know a good soils engineer that would help, too! It's a real science! btw - beach sand is not reccommended because it is too smooth. Good luck!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 12:19 pm:

You would think with the soil "expert" I have living in the house, this would be easier. Husband was an FFA National Soil Judging Competitor back in the day, farms, and has a commercial excavation business...we know what is wet/dry etc. and are fairly knowledgeable about aggregate, but not so smart when it comes to creating decent horse footing...I really appreciate everyone's help.

Sara, if "concrete sand" is what we call "mason sand" in our area, it is very fine--and much more expensive than say, B-Borrow sand which is washed sand but it still has quite a bit of silt/clay in it--it is not quartz sand. I have access to free B-Borrow sand but I hesitate to use it, unless I can figure out what other material to combine it with. AgLime around here has other ingredients in it, for ag purposes, and costs about $7.00T plus delivery...hmmm. I need to do some more phone work with the quarries.

I've noticed that western reining arena footing is slicker for those sliding stops than western eventing arenas with all of the cutting and turning. (No clue about English disciplines. I have seen very few shows/competitions--but boy they are something! I could watch just about any event with a horse in it. LOL)

Diane, the arena you like w/ sand/limestone sounds like my best option at the moment. I appreciate you letting me know whatever you can find out about it.

Thanks Everyone.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 7:20 pm:

One of the universities had a great site with a lot of info on footings. I think it was Penn State or U of Penn.

Yes, I think mason and cement sand are probably the same thing. Very fine and doesn't drain good.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 8:58 pm:

Thanks Sara, the Penn site popped up during my Google searching. It was very detailed.

You mentioned "heavier dirt/sand mix" for a western eventing arena. Would it be clay? topsoil? Both?

I sure am impressed and grateful that the folks on this site are so willing to help and share their experiences.

I've been reading other discussions for about six hours during the past 36...and have found it most interesting and helpful and have laughed out loud several times at the humor.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 9:02 pm:

Ann, do you have anything mixed with your arena sand? Are you happy with it? I forget, is your arena indoors or outdoors?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 9:25 pm:

Holly/Ann what do you guys have for a base? Did you just dump it on top of the soil?

I really thought about that, but like you Holly I could see the rocks would work through. The lime really is an excellent base (sub base)

Vick one thing I am very glad I did was a couple days before the limestone arrived I sprayed the whole area with round up. I have seen so many arenas with weeds and grass growing through it I thought it might be a good idea and so far anyway it has worked well.

AND Sara I have been wondering for mos. what you used for footing...did you go with pure sand??? I really think you need to show us a pic of the finished product
Member:
dres

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 11:16 pm:

Out door arena.. more or less all weather.. I can ride on it right after a heavy rain, where as my neighbors can't..
No i did not mix it with anything ,, just sand.. on top of a 3/4 inch AB - road base -that is 6-8 inches packed.. That is the key in a good draining arena is your base.. We put our arena on a 1% slope as well..
We too have rocks coming up.. i don't jump so no harm..
Boy tho, i would love to find a good washed siltless sand to add this year.. as the top crust is a pain.. I do water everyday to cut down the dust.. thus the crusty top..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 18, 2009 - 11:58 pm:

Yes, we added the sand on top of the KS gray dirt that lots of regular folks use by itself for arena footing.

My arena gathers puddles, but we usually have dry weather, so not usually a problem. Last year, we had 13 inches above normal for rainfall . . . so my arena was often wet. The sand was dumped on about 2/3 of the arena, and even though we have used the box blades and drag to spread the sand around, it is mostly on just one side of the arena . . . and that sandy side is the best for footing . . . so I really need to get the other loads of sand for the other side of the arena.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 12:57 am:

We used road base material, but had all the rocks screened out. It packed great - once I actually found someone who knew how to do it - a whole 'nother story. First guys screwed it up and we had to have it redone.

I did wind up with washed sand that came from a couple of hours away. It was the best we could find and still afford. (We sifted and tested all the sand in the state I think! I know I DrOve my poor husband crazy, and some of the gravel guys just gave up on me.) The sand is small, angular, and very minimal fines. We don't have the oil on it yet - had to wait for the weather to warm up - and even without it, the footing is almost dust free. To have the road base re-compacted and the sand brought in, spread and leveled, we spent about $7000. That's for about 3" of sand over the area. That is a bit pricey, but a lot of the cost was hauling. If you live where they have something besides clay your expenses wouldn't be so high. I fell in love with some stuff that was polomer coated sand. It was beautiful! Very springy, holes put in it just refilled on their own. Great stuff. Unfortuately, it would have cost us over $65,000 to get it shipped in with installation on top of that - a little over budget!

In an outdoor arena I don't think dust would be such a critical factor. I'm asthmatic, so dust is a real concern to me; plus it's not good for the horses to be breathing it in either. Outside the breezes usually blow it away and it's a lot easier to water. On the inside arena, especially in the winter when it's closed up, watering can bring the humidity level up.

The articles I read just said for western events "natural dirt" was preferred. I know the barn in S. Cal. where our stallions are, has several arenas with footing made by turning up the dirt then adding some sand and wood chips or peet. The sand and chips keep the dirt from packing and help the dirt hold moisture without being soggy. The footing is very giving, but has "grip" My neighbors who are ropers, just use the dirt they have and turn it up and work it so it's about 3" deep. The soil around here is clay, so it's crummy when it's wet.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 6:06 am:

So what is road base??? I'm picturing what they put down for gravel roads around here? And once you screen road base isn't limestone what's left?

I guess I better look around at sand. Who would have thought sand came in so many shapes and forms. Our quarry around here doesn't carry sand. The polymer stuff sounds great!

Thanks
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 9:43 am:

Ann, I think 3/4" AB road base is what we call #73 stone around here. Typically #53 stone is used around here for roadbase. (73s are smaller than 53s) I priced #53 stone to cover 130'x 200' arena compacted to 4" and it was $22K delivered. The quarry is an hour away. Price was $10.00 per ton for stone. Sheesh. We have triaxles, but I still have to pay the drivers, fuel, etc. so I priced it delivered. Too much $...for me. I'm not in the horse business for a living so no way in Hades could I justify the expense...!

Commercial excavator/site work pro Husband tells me I'm basically building a parking lot with sand on top (or sand/rubber or sand/limestone, etc.!).

We own a very small gravel pit, and screen sand and road gravel. I don't know if our sand will work or not--even if we screened it three times. It isn't quartz sand. And of course, screening takes time and money to load it, run it on the conveyor though the screen, load it again--that process is expensive--hence the high cost of "washed" or screened sand. Poo.

I keep reading that folks have had their base compacted, but I wonder how well and with what equipment? Stones should not be coming up through the footing material. It sounds like it isnt' compacted well enough, or someone was very aggressive discing the footing and got into the road base. Once the base is broken, water gets in and you have a puddle/sinkhole/pothole in the making. If it's helpful to anyone at all, here's what we do to compact a base--whether it's a base for road, commercial bldg, etc.

Topsoil is removed with dozer and/or scraper. Depending upon weather conditions/time of the year, the ground is disced up, "ripped", maybe even plowed, limestone is added if the ground is way wet (soupy) but the project must move along instead of waiting for it to dry up. The "limestone stabilization" can cost 100sK of $ depending on how wet and how big the job site is. Site is "worked" (disced, ripped) over a period of time--usually days, hopefully not weeks, to dry the dirt out. Dozer used to bring the site to rough grade. A "sheep's foot" packer is used to begin compaction. A sheeps foot packer is a large roller and the front roller wheel has big rounded, flat bottom cleats--about the size of a sheeps foot--and it pounds the soil, breaks clumps--reminds me of a meat tenderizer. I'm talking clumps the size of basketballs. More dozer grading. A smooth heavy drum roller (like you see smoothing roadway base stone/asphalt road base)is used to further compaction so the base looks like a slick brown piece of concrete. Loaded dump trucks can drive on a properly compacted clay base; the base should be that tight. The base should not slump or "pump" when driven on with the heavy trucks. Pumping is when the base sinks in spots, but doesn't crack and appears undulating or even worse like corrugated cardboard/washboard if it's really rough. That has to be corrected by filling sinking spots and recompacting to grade. Then #53 stone is brought in, dumped on the base, dozers used to fine grade the stone, compacted with smooth roller. Then concrete or asphalt is applied on top of that. Darling husband tells me that is what I am doing--just not using concrete or asphalt...Yikes.

That sounds like what HUGE commerical arenas do, not little ole me. :-)

But to do less than a perfect job on the base and subbase means problems in the long term--rocks, moisture, peanut butter, soup, uneven surface, etc.! And of course the footing...less than a "perfect" job means problems too! My challenge is to find a less than perfect solution which creates problems I can live with! 64 million dollar question...

Sigh. I need to win the lottery so I can throw money around. LOL
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 9:51 am:

Diane, road base is different from road gravel. Base is compacted limestone and some type of road material is applied over the base. Road gravel is smaller stones usually with quite a bit of sand/silt/clay particles in it. Realllly clean beautiful gravel reminds me of peafill. Peafill is round, it won't compact. Walking in piles of peafill is like walking in piles of soybeans--you'll break your neck as the pile shifts. Beach sand is round and shouldn't be used in the arena footing.

This whole base/footing dilemna reminds me of paint a room "white" and I go to Menard's and stand in front of the paint chip display and discover there are 250 shades of "white". Ha.
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 9:52 am:

We put our arena in ourselves... we have access to heavy equipment and friends that drive heavy equipment.. we did as you say above... removed a top layer of the clay / packed the remaining ,, added the road base and packed it / packed it / packet it somemore..
Horses can pull up rocks IF you use your arena for tunout ..I just started letting my young one have some freedom out there.. only after he has been worked.. all tho, he still does a few slide stops here and there..
Disking the sand up can bring up rocks too, I am very careful NOT to get down to deep to upset the base... but rocks still surface.. We have been very lucky, no puddles / no soft soft spots.. BUT it does get swampy looking from the silt that will surface after a good rain.. :-( And then of course when drying out becomes crusty..
We put in our arena / Dressage court size, 10 years ago.. cost us between $7,000.-$9,000. i don't remember exactly..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 10:00 am:

Around here "road base" can also be something other than quarried stone that is compacted.

Broken concrete free of rebar can be crushed into chunks--chunks the size of quarried stone--say #53 stone for example. The recycled concrete can be used as road base and compacted. Husband says I can use that, the cost may be $5.00-6.00 per ton plus delivery.

Asphalt that has been removed from a road/parking lot can also be crushed into useable sizes and compacted as road base. I can use that, the cost may be $5.00-6.00 per ton plus delivery.

Even if I use the crushed concrete, I'm still looking at 10K+ for the arena with delivery. And then add the footing $...
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 10:27 am:

Makes sense that heavy use, turnout, etc. would eventually hack up the base...hope Diane's cows don't get on her arena very often!

We raise elk, but they wouldn't be in the arena! Their fences are 8 ft., if they get out, I'm sure they will be long gone!

Ann, does your arena get heavy use? Are you in the horse business with lots of training, lessons, etc.?

Sorry everyone for my lengthy, multiple posts...I've got Arena Madness, bad.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 10:57 am:

Around here road road base is course gravel with a lot of clay fines. It is wet and packed throughly until it's almost like concrete. That's what we have under our sand. I didn't use large rocks because I didn't want them working their way up through the sand. You need small rocks because they help bind the base. (I don't get that part, but that's what I was told and have read.) The base should be compacted as densely as possible. Commercial arenas that are done properly are compacted to 98%, as dense as possible. If it's not compacted enough, it won't hold and will work up into the footing. And, if the footing isn't deep enough, if it's not kept level, or if you do a lot of spins and sliding stops, some of the base will work up into the footing anyway. Also, sand only has a certain life span and will begin to break down into more fines with use and age, so more sand will have to be added over time. The attractive find about the polymer footing is that it is very slow to break down and is waranteed for 10 yrs. You can buy a lot of sand and dirt for the price though.

Vicki - we all understand the arena madness! I was totally obsessed and impossible to deal with until I found something I could live with. Aside from the polymer, I came to the conclussion there is no perfect footing. Everything seems to have drawbacks. I looked into rubber addatives, fiber and silicone addatives, etc. All are expensive and all have drawbacks. I never knew so much depended on discipline and use.

I'm not sure if your gravel pit and knowledge will help Vicki, it might just drive you more crazy!
Member:
stek

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 11:08 am:

Vicki, thanks for your detailed description on the *right* way to prep the base. We are planning an arena this spring and while I'm sure I can't afford all the steps you describe it is nice to have it all spelled out. I'm DrOoling over your heavy equipment!

From my understanding your husband is exactly right: a properly done arena is a parking lot with footing on top. I have heard that it is common in Europe to use pavement as the base. At first thought it sounds like it would be punishing to work on but in reality the harder and flatter your base the better, at least for an outdoor arena.

Once we have ours done (our boarders will think I'm crazy) there will be absolutely no turnout allowed in the arena. Horses just love to dig holes to roll in and holes lead to the undoing of everything. By my calculations we are looking at at least $10k for the dirt work, base and basic sand footing, not even including a fence around it. At that price I will be guarding it with my life!

Please keep us posted about how your project progresses.
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 11:22 am:

Vicki, this is private , my backyard.. I work / ride 3 horses a day on it... Sometimes 4.. I drag it at least twice a week.. I do lunge on it but very little and keep the circle moving up and down the court to not create a pattern.. I agree, I am very protective of my arena.. you have to be for the health of the horse and the health of our pocket books.. !~

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 12:53 pm:

Shannon, keep in mind I'm not an engineer! The site prep I described is my perception after watching husband work on job sites here in NW Indiana with heavy clay soils and humid continental climate.

I know just enough to be dangerous...

Sara, Layfolks, who aren't aggregate producers or engineers, might look at #53 stone and call it odd shaped (angular) gravel. ? It packs very well and doesn't have sand/silt in it at all. I don't know that much about it really. I have walked out into our "yard" where the stone stock piles are and looked at 73s and 53s and they look like little rocks--gravel to me...!

What you describe as your base sounds a lot like what we call "road gravel" around here that is used on county roads and gravel lanes and has lots of silt/clay in it. It is used on top of graded lanes for a gravel road. And it is used in chip and seal applications which looks a lot like pavement after it has been rolled or a lot of traffic has "rolled" it. (Our county never rolls the new chip and seal--too much $, they let the taxpaying drivers roll it with their cars and trucks!) Chip and seal and gravel lanes of course wash and wear more quickly than roads put in with good stone compacted bases. (Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud...trying to make sense of it all. An engineer would probably laugh his/her head off at my mental cogitations...I can write my aggregate knowledge on my thumbnail)

Ann, your arena sounds like it has held up pretty well if it is 10 years old! Going the route you and Sara did sounds the best so far...

And I keep thinking about drainage. If the dirt and stone bases are high enough above the surrounding grades, then drainage should be no problem keeping the 1-2% slope. I wondered if perimeter slotted tile would be necessary? Probably not on my site; there aren't any big swales, hills, etc. When I think of Diane's site, does she have water trouble running off that steep hill onto her arena? Should their be a big drainage tile at the foot of the hill?

I think I will give myself a headache.

Arena Madness squared...
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 1:04 pm:

Sara, on the large rock thing you didn't quite understand--maybe this will help give you a visual:

Riprap is the HUGE rock (basketball size +/-) used often on interstates on the underpasses to help control erosion or on huge drainage swales, detention ponds, etc. It can never be smoothly compacted like small stones. If you can visualize those large rocks with their many facets, it would be like winning the lottery to get all of the facets to match up and link like a rubic's cube and create a smooth surface. Maybe that helps with the larger vs. smaller rock forming a tight, smooth base? (I know you weren't going to use riprap for heaven's sake, but I was going for the visual!)
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 2:46 pm:

Sare, what type of oil are you going to put on your arena? I've read all kinds of stuff and don't know much more than I started--for one thing,until I know the footing I have, who in the heck knows what I need to do to keep the dust down...lol

Have you heard of Arena Rx liquid? I ran across that in my searching. $10.95 gal, $602.25 55 gal drum, and 3011.25 for a 275 gal pallet tank + delivery from Maryland. Website was www.stableandarena.com I think Don't know what it's in it. probably topsecret...
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 3:12 pm:

Vicki, I'll look at the website, but shipping form maryland would be expensive. I'd be willing to be it's mineral oil plus something else added.

when I was talking about large rocks, I'm talking an inch or more across. In our base, aside from the stray rock, there isn't anything larger than
about the size of a pencil eraser.

I'm going to go with mineral oil. It's available, easy to apply with equipment we have, should last at least a year, and it's pretty inexpensive. Also, it has the added benefit of being good for your boots and the horses' feet. I'll let you know how it actually works!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 4:57 pm:

LOl Vicki you are worse than I was/ am.

I did have run off problems until we got the grass growing...the water goes around the edges of the arena.

I did my arena pretty much as you described and it cost $200 for the dozing because a friend did it and $500 for the lime I still can't remember how many ton, but I think it was 88??? but not sure....lime around here is $2 a ton. the rest was delievery.

How big is your arena going to be?? Mine is 100wx 140Long. So so far I have $700 in the arena. Once I add fence and footing I don't know what it will be, but I guarantee you I will get it done for less than $3000 total(or it won't get done) and hopefully it will be good!
Member:
stek

Posted on Thursday, Mar 19, 2009 - 5:46 pm:

Diane!!! You better stop right now and count your blessings! In the future please multiply any costs you post by 10 to make me feel better. Please?
Member:
frances

Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 8:34 am:

Has anyone had luck with sand mixed with strips of felt (like undercarpeting)? We used to go and ride in the Athens Olympics dressage arena regularly for the six months before the Olympics took place in 2004, in order to keep the footing "worked in" properly. It was a fantastic experience and the surface was sand with what seemed to be these felt-like strips - just the right amount of softness/resilience. Don't know where they got it, or how well it holds up with time.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 8:51 am:

I am obnoxious in my fervor to get this right. I feel I am running out of time to make a decision...the area I have flagged is actually in the field and if I don't make my case soon, Husband will plant corn right through my "arena" and I will be out of luck until November and I don't want that to happen as I have been out of luck since last May when I bought Cowgirl home. Long story short, the horse came before the barn...the opportunity was there and I "had" to buy her then. My sweet, plodding Haflingers are such easy keepers and so very tolerant--they didn't have the Taj Mahal to live in, but new Diva horse lived in a "proper" barn/stall since she was a weanling...and wasn't tolerating the construction phase very well. And she was used to a very different lifestyle indoor/outdoor drill/rodeo performances, very busy, etc. She needs a proper arena. She has been bored out of her mind here along with all of the changes, she was a very unhappy horse from May to September, was lame in Jan/Feb due to thin soles and ice/stone bruising, and now is feeling great and NEEDS A JOB or I'm going to ruin a wonderful horse! I need an arena. If not, I may have to lease her to friend to give her a job this spring/summer. :P Poo to that, I want to do it!

So, Diane, if I appear worse than you regarding Arena Fever, I PROBABLY AM. I feel like I have to make this decision in less than two weeks and I'm going to DC next week!

I've been putting the pressure on Husband since November when the barn was finished, but not too hard, because after all, he HAD just spent much precious time building me a great barn.

So now, she's been healthy for almost three weeks and is raring to go and I feel a great sense of URGENCY. Sara, I think I qualify as OBSESSIVE for sure.

Thanks ladies, after all your input, I think I can make my case for the crushed concrete and then a sand/limestone footing w/mineral oil if needed. Still need to investigate the sand specs but I will get there.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, wish me luck!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 8:58 am:

Diane, forgot to answer your question when I went off on my tangent. Arena is 130' x 200' to accommodate the stuff I would like to do. Husband said, next I suppose you will want to cover it. My eyes probably lit up like 1000 watt light bulbs, but I said NOTHING. Covering an arena that size isn't going to happen unless I win the lottery.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 9:02 am:

LL, I have been researching online like mad, and came across an arena builder from Germany who seemed to be highly revered by the people of your riding discipline. I would imagine that company could help you. Otto Footing was the name. Google the 2010 International/Rolex Event in Kentucky, USA. That company was doing the arenas in the new complex being built for the event.

Wonderful experience you had to get to ride in an arena like that in Athens! Wow!!!
Member:
frances

Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 9:12 am:

Thanks Vicki. And, yes, it was!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Mar 20, 2009 - 11:09 am:

There are several companies that sell additives like the one you are talking about. One is in Ohio and another in LA, that I know of. If you can't find them on line,let me know and I'll find my file on the arena. My office in packed in boxes right now (remodel going on) which is why I don't have the info handy right now.

Del Mar, CA has strips of what looks like a diaper lining material in their arena and in the track dirt. It is wonderful feeling footing.

Vicki - I feel you pain! Good luck!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Apr 5, 2009 - 7:02 am:

Well I had my routes with the outdoor arenas. The 2 I thought looked nice as driving by ARE very nice! I stopped and checked them out.

One is a HUGE outdoor, they hold a rodeo there every year. The owners are big into eventing, jumping, dressage. This is a boarding barn at a resort type place. They have trail rides. I would say their clientele is 50/50 western/english disicplines. They also have schooling shows through out the summer. SOOO it is used for about everything. Their arena appears to be 70% lime 30% sand..The footing hadn't been harrowed ...was not crusty and IMHO perfect, It was firm...yet soft. The sub-base was clay and the base crush limestone. I WANT that arena!!!

The other arena I like is a smaller arena used mainly for dressage/jumping. It's makeup was the same as the big one. We had tons of rain right before I did those routes...both were dry and useable...not crusty at all.

The all sand arena were soggy and wet yet. The lime ones hard...like minebut dry and useable. The all rubber one I didn't look closely at, way out of my budget! didn't want to tease myself.

The lime/sand mix was REALLY nice! If you scroll down this web page it shows some pics of the arena being used...not the best pics but it give you and idea of the footings consistency and uses.
https://www.shenandoahridingcenter.com/index.html
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Apr 5, 2009 - 8:32 am:

OH I found a video of one of their sale horses getting jumped in their arena. Gives you a little better idea of the footing, actually there are couple videos if you click the sales icon at the top of the web page I put in the the post above this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-14_8QWNrY&feature=related
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 7:15 am:

Wow Diane, thanks for taking the time to check out the arenas and post the info/links. The shenandoah place certainly does look plush. Wowser.
Husband is dragging feet somewhat, stalling...and I'm TRYING to be patient. It isn't pretty to watch a 48 yr old woman fidget and secretly fume. Hahaha It's going to happen, but I'm not sure if it will be this month--maybe the middle of May. I hope not June...egads.
In the meantime, I'm working on a few tricks to occupy the diva horse's mind...:-)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 7:48 am:

Yes it is quite a place and their trails are remarkable. Nice place for a horsey get-away but that is the place I hate reading meters because of the ticks and rattle snakes.

I am revving up to finish my arena, I am still trying to figure out the fencing. I am back to leaning towards a wood fence. I figured it would out last us, then become someone elses problem!

I am going to go with the lime/sand footing I think, so if I manage to get mine done before you I'll let you know how it works. I was reading up on sand AGAIN! and ran across this article..I bookmarked it for further reference...who thought sand could be so confusing Sand is ridiculously expensive here.
https://www.horse-sense.org/archives/20040620083558.php
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 7:57 am:

RATTLESNAKES?!!!!!!!! Ewww, I don't like snakes of any kind. Ridiculous I know, but it's a very real fear for me. No trees around the farm to speak of, so very few ticks. yay for that.

With your potential cow problem, I would opt for sturdy fencing and perhaps a hotwire on the outside of the fence on the hillside of the arena if at all possible to keep those pesky cows off the arena.

Sure hope you find a footing material that is manageable $. I haven't totally decided on the footing material yet...

I'm going to check out the site you posted right now.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 3:12 pm:

I had the fence guy come out and give me a price for a 3 board fence. The dimensions of my arena according to his wheel thing he pushed around were 150' Long by not quite 90' wide. These guys are quite a reputable outfit and I have seen their work(Very Nice)..he even showed me pics of the arenas they have done in all sorts of fencing.

I was afraid of "sticker shock" His total came to $3500 finished...labor materials and tax. UGHHHH!!! I told him I couldn't quite afford that, so we haggled down to $3000, in 2 weeks I will have my fence!!!! I HOPE I can get the footing done by then, but if not we are putting in a 16' gate and a 6' walk thru gate right next to each other so the total opening will be 22' and the trucks can easily get through there...I'M SOOOO excited!...I just hope Hank don't kill me in there AGAIN!!!
Member:
stek

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 3:39 pm:

How exciting! That sounds like a reasonable price to me. Good idea about the gate combo and placement .. I might have to steal that idea from you!

I'm just curious, do you know if they will be driving the posts or digging out and setting them? I haven't been able to find anyone to drive posts out here but back east that's what we always did. I have even seen the pointy bottom posts used for driving in set with the points up. Makes me just shake my head!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 7:36 pm:

Shannon, they drive them. We thought about doing it ourselves to save$$ but they do such a professional job and NO way did I want to dig post holes and tamp them YUCK!! Then it would probably be crooked and hubby and I would fight for hours about it, and it would NEVER get done...so it's worth it to have them do it. They'll have it done in a morning It's $500 over my allowed fence budget, but when do horse things ever come in budget?
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 10:24 pm:

Yay Diane!!!! So happy for you and cant wait to see the finish pics...
So happy for you and vicki too:-)
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Thursday, Apr 9, 2009 - 10:43 pm:

Sounds great, Diane. I like the hill around the arena . . .

A board fence will look very professional and safe.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Apr 10, 2009 - 11:18 am:

I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished arena! It's such a pretty setting for one; it's going to be beautiful! Enjoy!!!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 11:17 pm:

Some days I think Mother nature really plans her day around me

I was suppose to get my lime/sand footing this weekend, but guess what it rained all weekend. The fence guy called and said he was going to put the fence in today...guess what it rained

SOOO since the wind has been blowing 100mph the arena is dry enough and hopefully I will have the fence tomorrow!!! In a way it works out better this way, because the line they laid out for the arena is a little different then the way my lime is(IOW their's is even). This way we will know exactly where to dump the footing. The bad news our loader tractor broke and can't get it fixed til' the first of the month UGHHH(so can't move the footing around). Very excited the fence is finally going up tho! I'll take pics tomorrow!
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 21, 2009 - 11:46 pm:

Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 12:01 am:

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay for fencing! Crummy wet weather here too. Husband started my pasture fence Saturday but that effort stalled when he decided he needed a bigger machine (which wasn't here darn it) to drive the posts. So, only five posts were set--althought the big corner posts where put in earlier in the week. We used utility posts for corner posts cut in 8 ft lengths, used auger, set posts, backfilled with dirt and stone, tamped down. The line posts are treated 8' posts 4" in diameter. Posts were put 3 1/2' in the ground and will all be driven. Sigh. We have umpteen projects related to my horse "stuff" going on at the same time. Husband is trying...:-) Fence will be braided hotwire w/ wooden posts.

Post picks of your beautiful board fence! The setting is so pretty!.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 3:42 pm:

I lost my camera!!!! I looked everywhere for it and can't find it....even in the fridge?? The fence is up and it is SOOOO nice!
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 3:50 pm:

Girl!
Find that camera!!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 5:01 pm:

check your truck!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 6:12 pm:

It took 2 hours but I found it!!!

Here's a pic from the road


Here's the rest




I thought putting the fence around it would make it seem much smaller, but it didn't I LOVE it...I think the footing will becoming this weekend!
Member:
stek

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 6:32 pm:

That looks awesome Diane!! I am so happy for you / envious / happy for you / envious!!
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 7:22 pm:

Oh D!!
It looks fantastic!! I love it! Congratz!
L
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 7:43 pm:

Diane, it's gorgeous and will feel so good to ride in it . . . .

Ummm . . . I noticed that huge culvert at the road-end of your arena . . . lol . . . there is a ditch to catch the water, right? LOL
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 8:07 pm:

THANKS! Holly, that culvert connects our creek with the one across the road... the cattle actually walk through it to switch pastures...you can see the creek in the first pic off to the bottom left. When we moved here the first time Hank saw that he about fainted but now he will walk through it too.

Shannon even with the expensive fence I shouldn't have much more than $4000 in it. Hubby who has been complaining since day one of this project, tonight said "that does look really nice" I'm very pleased with it it's been a year since I started this and still am not finished!...almost tho...
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 9:04 pm:

It looks FABULOUS! I have ARENA ENVY!

PS: where WAS the camera?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 9:33 pm:

The camera wasn't in the fridge, it was on top of it in a basket...which I looked in twice! After ripping the house apart I took the basket off the fridge and looked closely...there it was to my relief...pushed in a corner hiding!
Member:
jowidner

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 10:31 pm:

First of all, your arena (don't you just love the sound of that, YOUR arena?) looks fantastic!

Secondly, why do you keep your camera in a basket on top of your fridge? To keep the camera gnomes from reaching it???
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 10:55 pm:

Thanks Jo Ann, Where else would you keep a camera, I DON'T keep my camera there otherwise I would have known where it was...usually it is on the end of the counter... I think maybe the camera gnomes put it there. I don't have any idea how it got there other than I cleaned all the junk off the counter and I must have put it there....Let that be a lesson..no more cleaning!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 22, 2009 - 11:01 pm:

Diane, your arena is BEAUTIFUL!! What a lovely setting for it, too. A bench cut into the side of the hill for an audience would just finish it off nicely.

As to cameras, I looked for mine for weeks, finely found it although I don't remember where, and now can't find the battery charger! Maybe it's in a basket somewhere like your camera was!
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 6:54 am:

You all must have tiny pocket sized cameras to lose them so often, lol! Mine is sitting here in it's big case, but we can't find the lens cap, think hubby lost it at deer camp last fall! And every time I want to load pics on 'puter, I have to search for that blasted special cord.

Most of the time by the time I take it out, usually in the barn to take updated hoof pictures, I find the battery is dead from daughter taking pictures of herself.

Diane,

With such a nice arena, I am betting hubby starts cutting cattle in there, lol! He'll want some use out of his investment,
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 7:07 am:

Cows are not allowed in the arena! Hubby has no investment in the arena, otherwise I wouldn't have it! I have been saving my overtime, and any extra money I made for over a year...That's why he can't complain about how much it cost HIM
Member:
canter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 7:13 am:

Diane, it looks fabulous! Enjoy!!!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 8:02 am:

Angie, what is it with today's teens and cameras?! They constantly take pix of themselves and friends on their phones, cameras, video, etc.! I tease my daughter all the time about such "self-absorption"...

And Diane, this morning the ARENA ENVY I'm experiencing has gotten worse, not better. Sigh. Yours is just wonderful. Hope you get to try it out today!.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 9:16 am:

Aw shucks Diane, no pictures of hubby cowboying then? Or of you sorting cattle on Hank?

Whatever will you be doing in there with all that space and wonderful footing?
Member:
lilo

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 9:41 am:

Diane - just beautiful! What does Hank think? I can't believe that culvert is big enough for cows and horses to walk through.
Enjoy,
Lilo
P.S. I am so glad you found your camera. I so enjoy your photos.
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 10:36 am:

Beautiful.. and now you have a larger dry lot for the fat horses if need be..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
paardex

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 6:46 pm:

Diane it looks wonderful! How slim is Hank now going to be!! And reconsider about the cow[s] train Pukey!
Jos
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 - 9:05 pm:

Your arena is fabulous, Diane!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 8:44 am:

I had to come back to this thread this morning again Diane and look at your arena to pacify my arena envy condition. I probably should be wearing a bib with the DrOoling going on...
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 10:05 pm:

The sad thing is I am not able to use it yet!!! I'm just DrOoling to get Hank in there, but since the fence isn't exactly where my lime was and the fence guys had the bob cat in there my footing is terrible. I can't get it harrowed out and the loader tractor is broke After breaking my ribs last year in there from the trip in the cow hole, I refuse to take a chance of that happening again.

I am suppose to have more lime delivered this weekend...but guess what...
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Apr 24, 2009 - 11:47 pm:

Uhhhh...let me guess....weather??

I sympathize; we're back to cooler temps, wind and rain on the way.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 10:46 am:

Rain, rain, and more rain and of course wind!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 12:19 pm:

You could have kept it to yourself! We've got the same. Did I mention how much I HATE THE WIND!! Yes, I have an indoor arena, but the damn wind howls around the corners all night, throws the trash cans around, along with the garbage, blows trash out of the construction dumpster, blows the shavings around in the barn if I dare open a door, and just saps your strength. I could live with the rain, I can remind myself the fields need the moisture; but what the heck good is the wind? Even the birds are having a hard time; they can barely cling to the feeders and the ravens drift backwards if they don't keep flapping.
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 1:09 pm:

"What good is the wind?" Sara asks . . .

Well . . . as someone who has to deal with it most days (come to think of it, we had quite a bit in CO and CA, too):

The wind moves the clouds and brings the blessed rain, moves the clouds and takes the darn rain away, and allows for sunshine, and dries up the rain (so the itsy-bitsy spider can come down the spout again), cools the face of the earth, gives hang-gliders and para-sailers something to hang and sail on, . . . and scatters dandelions!:-)
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 1:11 pm:

I'm with you on this one Sara, rain yes, wind NO.

Those of you west of the Mississippi River, can you all keep the wind over thataway? But PLEASE don't hog all the moisture??

Oh, and some warmth would be nice here too; around 40 but the wind makes it feel 30!

I went out in my jammies last night to get the horses in, was supposed to be a fast moving thunderstorm coming through. Well, it might have been moving fast, but it lasted 3 hours! The rain part of it lasted til noon today, and it's not done yet I am sure.

My grass arena WAS nice & firm...
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 1:52 pm:

The things that wind is good for? I am sooo sick of this wind It never stops and it's usually around 40mph+

Wind is good for

Blowing my hair in my face so I can't see anything most of the day...and have a beautiful hairdo also!

Making the horse stark raving mad!

Soon as I throw the hay in the pasture(IF I make it that far with it) it blows away and the horses go chasing after it(Hilarious actually) and good for their diet

Can't get in and out of doors with out super human strength.

runny noses and eyes

Can't open the windows or everything blows off the walls and counter.

I can handle a gentle breeze, but his wind hasn't let up for a month!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 1:52 pm:

Yeah, Holly, but it can do all that without blowing THIS hard!

Glad I'm not the only one that goes to the barn in my jammies.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 4:28 pm:

Oh, I feel for you all.

We have had the most glorious, extended spring with weather perfect for riding.

In the mornings a sweatshirt is comfortable but by midday, short sleeves are good.

We had a late frost the middle of this month that set back areas of pasture.

This month I actually had to blanket my Arab who doesn't grow much coat and my daughter's mare who has a total body clip, but only a couple of times

We have had some very windy days too, but only a few when we had to wear outer wear in the afternoons.

Finally the leaves are nearly done falling off the live oak trees but all is a mess again now with everything covered in oak tree pollens.

It has been perfect weather for opening a beDrOom window at night.

The air has been very dry, which can cause wildfire concerns, but that hasn't been as bad this spring as usual.

The upcoming forecast though, is for increased heat/humidity.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Apr 25, 2009 - 5:57 pm:

Brace yourself, Diane and the rest of you NE of us, it's started SNOWING here!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 10:08 pm:

OK so I have been on the hunt for sand. I asked an excavating guy that lives across the road from us and has horses...he said crappy sand is $300 a LOAD!!!!!!!! I KNOW I can't afford good sand then!

He said another farmer guy we know that lives down by the river has some sand, that is about the same quality....SO I went down and looked at it, it does have some clay in it. He said he would sell me a tandem truck load for $20...now that I CAN afford!

I wonder if the crappy sand mixed with the lime would work? Any thoughts? Would it turn into a mudhole when wet?
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 28, 2009 - 11:38 pm:

D, for $20 a load, who is going to load and haul it?

Hmmm. We're back to footing. I've been on such a fence/saddle quest the past two weeks, I had put that one (wisely) on the back burner before dear husband murdered me.

Sand with clay fines (but how much clay fines?) will be clumpy, soppy when wet and crusty, dusty when dry. Add the lime and it dries up for more crusty, dusty? I'm guessing here. Are you going to go to the places which have two outdoor arenas you like and get a few handfuls of the footing? Would the mineral oil help the crusty, dusty? Would it last outside?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 6:17 am:

I'm pretty sure I could get the guy who loads/hauls my lime haul it for me fairly cheap. It's only about 2 mi. from here. I don't know the ans. to your questions....when I stopped at the guys house and looked at the sand we had just had drenching rain all weekend. Actually the sand looked like it handled it well, but it was in a pile not in my arena There didn't APPEAR to be a lot of clay in it. He lives by the Mississippi and I suppose it's river sand.

I do know $300+ a load is not going to fly in our budget this year. I don't even know if I could bring myself to pay that much for sand and that was for crappy sand...hard telling what good sand is a load.

I may have to consider the crappy neighbor sand
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 9:05 am:

Try the sand test Sara mentioned...putting some in a jar with some water and let it settle. Should look like a parfait by morning and you can see how "dirty" the sand is. I read that trick online somewhere also... Next problem would be how much lime or "whatever" to mix with the sand to get the best combo possible...I"ll get some of our sand and try the same thing.

I probably have the same sand available to me that you have available to you. Bet our arenas will be similar. I priced the silica sand (found it in IL) and the $ and the trucking were going to be INCREDIBLE...something like 20K.
So, no silica sand for me that's for sure. I am at a dead stop on footing. Once I got the "Yes, ok, you can build an arena." from hubby, I shut up about it. (which is the wise thing to do around here...) Instead, I've been yammering about pasture fencing. I had to get a bit ugly about it over the winter. He has several acres fenced which he took out of crop production for the elk on the north end of the farmstead. My horse barn and stuff are on the south side in view from the west side of the house...Well, I wanted pasture for my horses. Duh. Why build a great barn and no pasture? Like they would stand around in a small dry lot 20 hours a day. I can't decide if he just likes to torture me or really thought I wouldn't "need" a pasture and could just use his elk pen(s)--which would have been available to me sporadically (sp?)and some are difficult to get to. So finally one night in exasperation, I said, "What's the use of owning acreage if I can't USE some of it for what I want?!! If I have to get permission from you (he was complaining about taking acreage "out of production"), to have a pasture, then I guess the only way for me to actually OWN ground around here is to divorce you or murder you. So, which do you want?" And I didn't say it nicely...

So I am "allowed" to fence part of the runway which is south and west. (He had an ultralight plane years ago. Those are pretty much like a lawnchair with wings and a motor. When I married him I said the ultralight flying is over or I need a million dollars insurance. He was finished with it anyway so he agreed. Also a local man was killed in an ugly accident with an ultralight which was sobering.)

So, I have about an acre and half pasture here on the house side. And another acre in the waterway on the north side. That's what I get this year. He'll consider adding another 2 acres next year.

But the concession was letting me have a large arena and taking the land out of production this year.

I figured that was a good compromise for me. A place to ride. The arena will certainly cost more $ than pasture fencing...so I didn't argue.

Isn't marriage great?

I don't want to make him sound like an ogre. The barn he built me is fantastic. Never dreamed I would have such a barn. He bought me a very nice used horse trailer and DrOve to Georgia to get it. And has built fencing. And tolerates the increasing number of hours I have been devoting to the "horse stuff"...

As usual, I'm off on a tangent. I need to get some focus!

Arena Footing. I will get a sand sample this week. And some lime. I'm going to Cloverdale Saturday, and I will inspect their indoor and outdoor arenas and maybe steal a handful...maybe try to talk to someone who can tell me about the footing.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 9:23 am:

Diane, have you been able to talk to the folks at Shenadoah about their footing ratios lime/sand?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 29, 2009 - 8:58 pm:

No I haven't been back out that way yet...next week.

My vet also has an arena, he uses just the limestone, I think I'm going to do that this year as I am horse broke and lime is way more affordable than sand...for me.

I need to get it twice as thick as it is now. When he was here today he just said he discs it occasionally and it's been working out fine for him.. My lime isn't thick enough yet so didn't want to disk it much, otherwise the clay would get in there...so this year I am just going to use the lime and see how it works once I get it applied thicker and if it don't work will save for footing next year.. I wouldn't have to work if I didn't have horses!
New Member:
npo33901

Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 6:48 am:

River sand is good enough for an outdoor arena , and drains well with drainage pipes underneath .I also spread recycled chopped rubber into the top layer . Watch out that the sand is sieved to get rid of large stones and pebbles .
Anna-Marie .
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 9:28 am:

Well Diane, if your vet successfully uses the lime, that certainly is good news. I think that's a good plan to use it this year, add more, and see how it goes rather than dump a bunch of $ in something you aren't sure about.

Anna-Marie brings up a good point for me combined with what Sara said about western discipline arenas she has seen. What if I used slotted drainage tile, (after bringing arena to rough grade, under and around the arena, and then backfill with stone/sand fill. (Backfill with stone first to cover the holes in draintile or the sand just fills the pipe and clogs it.) The remaining backfill is sand then clay fill. Compact arena. Put back the clay/topsoil which was removed from arena to install tile and do grade work. Disc in my "free" bank sand. Ratio still to be determined of dirt/sand. Hmmmmm.

Only problem with that I suppose would be rocks. It is amazing to me how mother nature belches rocks every spring here in north central Indiana after the freezing, thawing, heaving of winter/spring. It's like the "winter crop". We have spent tons of $, labor, time, etc. picking up rocks in our fields every fall/spring. (Amazing what a rock the size of your fist can do to the guts of a $250K combine.) Without a thick, compacted stone base to deter "rock belching", I suspect I'll be harvesting rocks at some point. ANd rocks "drift" underground with freezing/thawing which amazes me. Sure is a lot more activity going on in the earth than what I thought before I married a farmer/dirt man.

If I dare to bring up this hypothesis to husband, perhaps he can shed some light on it for me. I have a feeling he knows how to best go about this, but is enjoying watching me go through all of the mental girations...lol He did the excavation/site prep for a football field with some special artificial turf a few years ago. Wonder what type of tile/drain system it had. Those kids can play football in a downpour and not splash. Seems like the turf was rubber crumb...Hmmm. Me thinks husband is holding out on me hoping I'll ask for something easier...lol
Member:
dres

Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 10:39 am:

Question? Is this the same lime you use to make your paddocks hard in the winter? I don't get it.. seems that this will crust up and become hard if you water to keep the dust down and be a lot of work to disk it up often??
I know i am dealing with the silt left in the sand.. it becomes crusty and hard after a rain or if i water in the summer time.. I wish my quarry had given me what i paid for .. triple washed sand... will all the silt in mine , i don't think they did .. :-(

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Apr 30, 2009 - 3:15 pm:

Ann,it is a bit confusing! Yes this is the same stuff, and Yes it does become hard. The plan is to add more for the "base" pack and make hard...the "footing" will not be packed and left "loose" it will eventually pack down hard tho.

Last year we disced it lightly twice, and I harrowed it a few times...it really depends on the weather...we usually get enough rain that dust isn't usually a problem (wasn't last year). Even if it manages to dry up the wind NEVER stops here so it isn't too bad.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Saturday, May 2, 2009 - 10:26 pm:

Diane, I went to Crossroads Arena in Cloverdale, Indiana today to watch a western horse show. Their outdoor arena has six inches of agri-lime as the base. They then put six inches of "river sand" on it. That was too deep, so they took "some" off. I walked on it and it was pretty soupy today--we have had an amazing amount of rain the past ten days. The owner of Crossroads is happy with it. They do not have drain tile under it. (The show was indoors.)

Their three indoor arenas have four inches of clay and four inches of river sand mixed together. Sounds like a lot, but it must have compacted because today the footing was light, no dust, (moisture up in the building from the watering) and about 1-2" "fluffy" stuff on top. Owner said that mix of clay and sand would never work outside--to use the agri-lime.

For what it's worth, that is what Crossroads has.

I looked at the sand on the outdoor closely and the sand we have is cleaner than that stuff. Quite a bit of small, tiny-tiny stones in the sand, but the owner was way happy with it. So maybe the "crappy sand" your neighbor has won't be so crappy after all!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 7:04 am:

Thanks Vicki, I am starting to think the lime by it self will be good. Yesterday I rode in it and frankly it was pretty good. I think my problem lies in my "crappy" harrow.

The guy that hauls the lime for us is too busy and can't bring anymore for a while so I am stuck with what I have for now.

Of course everyone I talk to I ask about sand these days. My farrier was here the other day, so I asked him...He said a quarry about 10 mi. from us has what's called "man sand" which is quite cheap and he likes it. Do you know what man sand is????
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 5:15 pm:

never heard of man sand. I'll have to ask the husband.

yah, I'm wearing out cogitating and thinking of dollars. Husband thinks I should just compact the clay and put sand on top. Which might be what I do and see how it goes... Of course he would grade it level first.

I hope I get to ride soon. Diva horse is mending well. No lameness. No heat ever. Swelling at the ankle the first 2-3 days, none since. She has already haired over three of the scrapes on her lower leg. The big scalping on her inner thigh has scabbed and I saw a thin scab fluttering in the breeze earlier today, so it's trying to come off. I turned her out about 30 min ago and the numbskull went down to roll RIGHT BY THE FENCE! I ran over there fussing at her to get up. STEWPUD HORSE. It was almost in the same place where she hurt herself. ! Short term memory that one...

Glad to hear your lime is holding up.
Member:
hollyw

Posted on Sunday, May 3, 2009 - 6:46 pm:

Forgive this non-arena question, please:

Vicki, what kind of fence is it? Pipe panel? Wooden rail?

Would tying long strands of fluorescent surveyor's tape on the fence discouraged the mare from getting so close?

It seems that I read or heard, somewhere in the last several years, something that can be done to discourage horses from go down next to fences. Was it putting a sand pile several yards from the fence line? Can't remember. I know we had a discussion on it somewhere.
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, May 4, 2009 - 1:11 pm:

Holly, she was out in the 60' round pen, six bar galvanized. The pasture was too wet so I put her in the round pen which was a dry. She can see it fine; she just chose to lie down five feet from the fence.
New Member:
npo33901

Posted on Thursday, May 7, 2009 - 5:11 pm:

I have drainage tubes (perforated plastic 4 inches diameter ) . Tubes are wrapped in several layers geotex ( water permeable ) which holds the sand e.t.c. back . Tubes are 10 feet apart and sat in bed of 1 inch pebbles which covers tubing to a depth of 5 inches . The pebble bed is only around tubing - not the whole base . Between the drainage channels and over them is river sand and chopped rubber .
This drain well in heaviest down pour . I do not understand what all these mixures are about - keep it simple and it will work .
Around the arena is also channel with pebbles . AND on one side of the arena the pipes are sticking out - for eventual cleaning if necessary with water jet . For last 5 years I didn't find it necessary . Good luck .
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 3:47 pm:

So far the lime is working way better than I thought! The footing on top stays loose enough at a perfect depth. I had 4 more loads dumped in yesterday to fill in the low spots. We have to level by eye, so I had him dump me an extra load to have for a spare.

It is useable the next day after a good rain. We have not had to disk it. I think it will be fine with out sand! Actually I think the sand would "bog" it down too much...Heavy rains coming the next 2 days...should be able to find any low spots!!!

Vicki if you look at my thread at liberty training you can see what the lime footing looks like...I REALLY like it!!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 3:49 pm:

Sorry, in the video of Hank towards the bottom is where you can see the footing
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 3:52 pm:

Thanks Fame!

Thanks Diane! I have been following your liberty training with much envy. I wasn't able to download the video the first time I tried so I haven't seen it yet. (Think it was because son was gaming and online at the same time I was and the DSL couldn't handle all the data transfer...it can be maddeningly slow at times.)

The lime is $7.00 per ton here plus delivery of 40 miles. Hmmmmmm.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 4:18 pm:

The lime here is only $2 a ton. I don't know for sure what the trucking is but the quarry is only about 2 miles from us. Last year when I "filled the arena with it, it came to $500, so this 5 loads shouldn't be much. I won't have much more than $700 in footing. Of course your arena is going to be bigger so more expensive.

I really am very, very, pleased with it. Hank seems to like it too....with shoes on anyway...he has hoof problems, I do believe the lime would probably wear their hooves quickly anyway, but so will sand from what I understand.
Member:
nikky19

Posted on Thursday, Jun 4, 2009 - 11:18 pm:

I have enjoyed reading the two posts about Diane's arena and am now renewing mine, but its a depressing story. I built my outdoor arena 19 years ago, changed the surface 14 years ago and needed to do something this year because the sand had become "contaminated", got pea soupy when wet and as hard as rock when dry despite the nike shoe additive I put in all those years ago.
Sooo, I had the original road builder come back, remove the footing, put in more of a crown to prevent the flooding and damming of the previous arena. He brought a vibrating compressor, and rolled and rolled and rolled. The gravel was not top quality as all the quarries around here have been bought up by one outfit and their processing is very substandard, so it was not as compacted as he would have wished but could do no more.
The sand around here is really poor sand, you cannot get anything other than river sand that has a lot of silt in it. I tried all the quarries but they were all about the same - crappy. So anyway, I put 2 inches in, kept it watered and smoothed and in places added extra as the hooves seemed to be penetrating through to the base, so I rode slowly.
Now, we have had incredible thunderstorms and rain, not as heavy as in winter, but a lot of it. The arena is as bad as ever, really soupy and unrideable as its easy to touch down to the base with a little twig even! I did try adding some Ag Lime (fine powder), but not too much (like 350#) to my 66x132foot arena, but that probably made no difference. The water just seems to stay on the surface (I have that crown and a 1% slope) making puddles and I can see where the name "quicksand" comes from! I checked my neighbors arena, in which she has never even seen a puddle in two years and I took a handful of her sand which turned out to have just about as much silt as mine so I just don't know what to make of the whole thing.
I am wondering about Diane's idea of 60%-40% to harden up this sand and then will need to add more on top after that so that the hooves don't strike through. Either that or I have to have all this sand hauled off again - I am just seeing $K's washing away. Its tough.
If I could get more feed back on the lime that would be great. Having tried some of it, I have a feeling that it would just dissolve as you hope it will in the field to sweeten the soil and I'm terribly afraid this will just add to my "soup" problem. Any advise would be so appreciated. Nikky
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 6:10 am:

Boy Nikky, I feel for you. Footing seems to be really hard to get right.

What is your base under the gravel?

As you have seen from my pictures my arena is at the bottom of a BIG hill, we have torrential rains quite often. I can usually use my arena the next day after heavy rain. Sometimes I have to wait 2 days if it was extremely heavy rain, but I think that is normal regardless of the footing.

I decided against sand, because of the problems you state, it gets soupy and tends to stay that way for quite awhile.

Reading your post it almost sounds like your sub-base may be the problem. I am far from an expert, but FME you shouldn't be able to punch through to the base...or did you mean the sub-base?

I think letting my arena sub-base,which is packed lime "weather" before adding the "footing" which is loose lime made a big difference.

I still used the sub-base the first year when I could. It sat for a year in the torrential rains, baked in the heat of the summer sun, got snowed and iced on and it emerged hard as a rock this spring when it finally thawed out. Also I only use about an inch for footing. It would seem if you have too much footing(whatever it is), you can run into the problems you are.

Anything I have read said the base and sub-base must be very compacted.

I am very happy with the lime sub-base and for footing...my base is VERY compacted clay. Though it would seem there is different grades of ag-lime and ours definitely varies between quarries...mine is more course than powdery...it's like the stuff in baseball fields.

I have an extra pile here and if you'd like I can take a picture of a handful of it. I do have to harrow my footing about once a week, especially if it rains.
Member:
nikky19

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 9:57 am:

Hmmm! My subbase. Well, I have landscape cloth over a very compacted base (19 years ago) then 12 inches of rock, including 1/4 minus to top it off (19 years ago). Now there's been additional rock added to form a crown to enable more runoff and to eliminate the puddling and pooling that I was having and 1/4 minus over that - I also have removed the railroad ties around the edges.

It poured with rain here for a couple of weeks afterwards which was great as any shallow places could be added to and then it was compacted heavily with a vibrating compactor before the sand was added and I have.... failure. I am so frustrated. The depth of sand for my discipline is recommended at 2", but most people do 3" and go slow until the sand compacts more. I had planned to do the 2" now and then add the 1" later.

The operator, who is an experienced logging road builder, thinks that the previous sand may have penetrated the base and keeps it retaining water. Sigh... I just don't know where to go from here. He's coming over Tuesday to check it out and its supposed to rain a lot on Monday which will give him a better idea.

Sad thing is the old contaminated sand I had on the arena, I put on the paddocks I made with cloth, 3" of 3/4 gravel and 1" - 3/8 minus and there is no puddling sloppiness there as there was in the arena when I had it there!

The new sand is really, really bad. I went around and picked up samples, put them in water and there is so much silt in some of the areas. If that were the problem, I would have to spend $s to have it removed, but if its a sand penetrated base which is failing, I can't see what I can do.

A picture of the lime you have would be very helpful, but doesn't it dissolve/breakdown even if it is more granular than what I can find? I so appreciate all your helpfulness that I see in all your responses, not just to me. Thanks.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 5:02 pm:

I don't know Niki sounds like you have a problem somewhere. I don't think any arena would not be wet and possibly have some puddling with heavy rains.

As far as the lime melting away I don't believe it does...it works it's way into the ground in turn helping to firm the base up. Years ago I had my pastures tested to see what they needed as far as fertilizing, the guy came down and pulled some plugs of soil from all over the fields, about 2 ins. down, in the plug there was lime in the soil...very visible. The guy said that was from liming the pastures years ago.

All footing needs to be added too every once in awhile, my lime does wash in some of the bigger gully washer storms (which we just had and I will show you pics of the lime.)

Here is the arena before I harrowed it. It is just like cement (which I prefer to soupy sTuff!)




Here it is after I drug it with a cheap old one one section harrow I got from a farmer for free



Here is a handful of lime


Here is a close up of it, as you can see it is not powdery. There is Powdery lime tho.





Hope the guy can help you, sometimes you are just better off doing a do over
Member:
stek

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 6:08 pm:

Wow Nikky, sounds like you tried to do everything right .. even down to the landscape fabric.

Not to confuse things but I have always heard the sub-base described as the bottom most layer, usually your native dirt after you've scraped off the topsoil.

Then the base is usually fine gravel or stone dust (like the lime) laid in at a depth of at least 6" (preferably more), crowned to allow for a slope to promote drainage, and ideally packed to the firmness of concrete or pavement. It is usually not supposed to be free draining unless you have a drainage system under.

Then the footing is laid in to a depth of 2" ish, with the idea that rain filters down through the footing, hits the base, and runs off. So if the base has low spots, they will become puddles.

Nikki I'm wondering .. when you filled in your low spots, did you remove the footing from the areas and then add new base material and compact it? Or did you add additional base material that maybe mixed in with your footing and didn't compact well?

It sounds like you have two problems .. a base that didn't pack very well, and footing that has too much silt in it that holds water. If the base didn't pack the two could easily mix together and make even more problems...

We are putting in a new outdoor this summer and I have been holding off because I have yet to find gravel that packs the way I want. I have been buying a couple yards here and there, and none of what I find will pack down like asphalt. Next I'm thinking of trying to find recycled asphalt and using that... I know if I don't get the base right the rest of it is going to be a lost cause. SIGH .. why does it have to be so difficult?!
Member:
dres

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 6:29 pm:

As i have said before my sand has a lot of silt in it and after a rain it appears swampy looking, all tho the base is still firm.. When it dries completely it is hard and crusty... I have to drag mine up often.. and i thought i was putting on triple washed sand ..
Arena footing is a pain in the hoof..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jun 5, 2009 - 6:33 pm:

I don't know why I always mix up base and sub base. Can I blame old age??

Shannon is right from everything I've read the BASE is the most important part. I know mine is cement like! The footing drains very well even in the couple low spots I have. After a good rain I do have a few puddles, usually within 12 hrs. it has drained down to the BASE and disappeared.
Member:
nikky19

Posted on Saturday, Jun 6, 2009 - 11:26 am:

Thanks everyone for your input and for the pictures Diane - I think I am calming down a bit. The lime we have available here is much more like flour in consistency - very powdery, but I don't see that that should make a huge difference. Very reassuring to read about your lime still being present in the 2" plugs taken from your soil Diane.

Shannon, I really thought I did everything right 19 years ago and I did it by the USDF book, swales, 1% slope... the lot. This time I had the footing totally removed down to the base which is as hard as rock. I called some other contractors for their opinion and was told that my base is TOO hard and that's my problem and 1% slope is too little for any rain to be able to run off with such a slight slope, sigh. Another theory is that the vibrating compactor drew moisture up from the base, and yet another that the old footing filtrated down in the base and retains moisture there.

I am going to take the plunge and experiment with the lime. I am in contact with a large Ag supplier who say they can bring in the lime and spread it - could be costly (no price quote yet), but if it doesn't work, I can still have the footing removed. If it does, then I can still later add my extra sand. I tell you in the NW we have the worst sand, triple washed or not. I will let you know how things turn out.

Thanks again, Onward.................
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 27, 2009 - 7:58 am:

Hi I wanted to report how this lime base did this year. I really have no complaints at all. It does get a bit dusty when VERY dry, the drainage has been better than I could have ever imagined.

We had rain OR drizzle all week last week, last Thurs-FRI we had 3 ins. of rain, by Sat I could have rode in it, and did ride in it on Sun, I did not have to harrow it first, the footing was perfect.

After hard rains and then it sun dries it does get hard and needs harrowing. I harrowed it a total of 4 times this riding season. Did not have to disc it this year.

We did do a little re-vamping when the excavating company was here for our machine shed. There was one corner that was taking alot of rain run off, was washing a ditch right down the middle of the arena and making quite a mess. I had them build me a dike around that corner and re-route the run off into the creek, we added more lime to the low spots and it is perfect, the run- off is gone!

The arena really isn't graded for run off, I didn't really want it to "run off" so it is basically level, we must have done something right tho because any puddles are drained through and dry by the next day
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 - 2:06 pm:

Diane,
How did your arena hold up? Would do anything differently?

Husband is finally giving in and starting the process. He's starting with my round pen. When the barn was built in fall 2008, I moved the round pen where I wanted it in relation to the "whole horse set up", but it was on a slope. So all I've really used it for is de spooking, turnout, etc. Well!! Husband started moving dirt today--to even up the grade. Rain is threatening later today. I do hope they get all of the dirt hauled in before it rains. Five loads down, five to go...

I've been reading the outdoor arena footing/base/subbase posts again...My round pen will be the prototype for the arena???
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 - 4:11 pm:

Vicki I really couldn't be more pleased, even with 12 in of rain I could have rode in the arena the next day, I did have a Small washout in one corner.. but we had some record breaking rains, the berm we put around the top side carries all the water away from the arena and into the creek.

I do have to harrow it sometimes especially after it rains, as the limestone packs down hard after a lot of rain.

There is one thing I would TRY differently if I could, is make the mix about 30% sand 70% limestone. The limestone is great for drying quickly it harrows up nice and soft, but I think a little sand would help keep it a little looser.

It does get dusty if we have a LONG period of dry weather..that doesn't happen often here If necessary I could water it down but in the last 2 years I have had no need to.

Over all I am very very pleased!!
Member:
kpaint

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 - 4:36 pm:

Thanks for posting Diane with the update. As I reread the threads and my notes, the limestone w/ sand for an outdoor arena in the midwest keeps coming to the front of the list. Crossroads and Cloverdale in central Indiana has a 50/50 mix in their outdoor--it's pretty deep tho...rodeo, western, stock, etc.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Darling husband has knocked down all of the piles and has the rough grade in. :-)
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